Tottenham Hotspur v AC Milan [19:45 - 09/03/2011]

Napoli and co. aren't actually that good. They have some decent players, but flair players like Sanchez are hailed to the sky in Italy - there's just a big a gap, if not a bigger one, between the top and bottom of Serie A as in England.

It's not a bad league because Spurs knocked out Milan, it's a bad league because it's fairly boring and predictable and there are very few teams who can seriously compete on a European level with some of the world's best - Arsenal, (Spurs), Utd, Chelsea, for me are all better than Milan at this moment in time, and even if you don't accept that argument, just take a look at Roma, Inter who are both doing so badly.

The PL is someway ahead of most of the others to be honest. La Liga has two good teams, three at a push but Barca and Real are expected to steamroll every game against midtable opposition.

The spine of Milan has an average age of about 60.

Sanchez is an excellent player. No wonder Inter made a bid which was rejected and Chelsea are also in for him.

Napoli are good team. Cavani is a beast who could rip any defense.

It is fairly boring as the game is played at slower tempo, likewise Italians feel Premier league is boring as we have only butchers, thugs and hardly any technically gifted players. Not everyone loves fast tempo games. Spurs are no way better than Milan, and also there is always Inter who are the current champions.

Right now not many Italian teams can fight for the champions league as they are all hit by Inter scandal. They take time to recover.

This is not about Premier league Vs Serie A, you said Serie A is not one of the best league, which is clearly wrong and also bitterness as Spurs beat Milan, so to downplay their achievement you lot said Serie A is ****.

The Spine of Milan may average over 100 for all i care, bottomline is they are the first choice midfielders and without them Milan suffer badly.
 
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Congratulations to Spurs. They deserved to pass to the next stage, good luck in future games.

Also, congratulations to Seedorf, if anyone watched game yesterday he knows why Seedorf deserves all plaudits. He was best player on the pitch, giving everything to team and showed what is true legend.

Modric and Corluka my countrymen's are truly amazing . They got potential to be the best and they are showing it, I'm too sad that Niko Kranjcar don't play for Spurs because he is too good to be backup player.

Forza Milan, hope you'll win CL in near future. <3
 
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Why didn't Seedorf play as well as he did in the 1st leg though?
 
bitterness as Spurs beat Milan, so to downplay their achievement you lot said Serie A is ****.

The argument has gone on too long for me to care, now. We're not going to agree (H)

But my argument against Serie A has absolutely nothing to do with Spurs beating them. OK, I trolled once but I give full credit to Spurs for going through and playing brilliantly over the two legs - I'm not trying to downplay their win, I'm simply responding to other comments that Serie A is one of the best leagues in the world when IMO, it isn't.

It was more off topic than trolling tbh - get over yourself.
 
Sanchez is an excellent player. No wonder Inter made a bid which was rejected and Chelsea are also in for him.

Overrated. He can beat any man repeatedly, but his end product, whilst improving, is still near to nothing.

Napoli are good team. Cavani is a beast who could rip any defense.

Napoli are a team with a very good attack and an awful defence with an extremely wise manager. The quality of their players really isn't up to much bar Hamsik, Cavani and Lavezzi, but their manager has got them playing well because they're deploying a formation that is more or less the arbiter of the 4-3-1-2, providing width, a spare man at the back and matching the opposition in midfield, allowing their superior forwards a platform to work their magic.

It is fairly boring as the game is played at slower tempo, likewise Italians feel Premier league is boring as we have only butchers, thugs and hardly any technically gifted players. Not everyone loves fast tempo games. Spurs are no way better than Milan, and also there is always Inter who are the current champions.

Well if any Italians feel that, they're wrong. ****, in this game alone Tottenham played two players who are artists on any football field, Modric and Van Der Vaart. At least in the Premier league we don't have a fetish for cramming as many central midfielders into a team as we can.

And really, we can only go on results. Spurs beat the top team in Italy. I'm sorry, but Spurs are better.

Right now not many Italian teams can fight for the champions league as they are all hit by Inter scandal. They take time to recover.

And that is everyone else's fault how? At least the Prem isn't corrupt.

This is not about Premier league Vs Serie A, you said Serie A is not one of the best league, which is clearly wrong and also bitterness as Spurs beat Milan, so to downplay their achievement you lot said Serie A is ****.

Regardless of how much Joss is saying this to downplay anyone's achievements or not, what he says is right. The Italian league is a big one, but honestly not as big as everyone makes out. It all depends on how you define "best leagues". IMO, the Prem and La Liga are ahead of everyone else, making them the best leagues. Someone else's definition might be different, but it is hard to deny Serie A is falling away from the pack.

The Spine of Milan may average over 100 for all i care, bottomline is they are the first choice midfielders and without them Milan suffer badly.

Really goes to show how backwards and reliant on ageing players the Italian leagues are, then, doesn't it? When Massimo Ambrosini and Gennaro Gattuso at this stage of their careers are key players, you know you need a new start.
 
Overrated. He can beat any man repeatedly, but his end product, whilst improving, is still near to nothing.

Not at all overrated. Overrated is someone like Bale. Sanchez is not even getting the credit he deserves. He is amazing player and naturally gifted one. He is tearing defenses for fun. He was not preferred in the first half and was rarely used. In the last few months he has started to flourish.


Napoli are a team with a very good attack and an awful defence with an extremely wise manager. The quality of their players really isn't up to much bar Hamsik, Cavani and Lavezzi, but their manager has got them playing well because they're deploying a formation that is more or less the arbiter of the 4-3-1-2, providing width, a spare man at the back and matching the opposition in midfield, allowing their superior forwards a platform to work their magic.

Same can be said about Spurs. Awful defense and Strikers but a good midfield. That doesn't mean they are average team. It is not about just the names, it is team as a whole. Napoli are doing excellently and fighting for league title.


Well if any Italians feel that, they're wrong. ****, in this game alone Tottenham played two players who are artists on any football field, Modric and Van Der Vaart. At least in the Premier league we don't have a fetish for cramming as many central midfielders into a team as we can.

Agree or disagree, artistic players are rare breed in premier league.

And really, we can only go on results. Spurs beat the top team in Italy. I'm sorry, but Spurs are better.

One tie wont prove anything. I haven't seen many saying Inter are the best team when they won Champions league. All the wanking was about how Barca played. Milan are great team with rich history. Just a matter of time they will be back to their best.

Blackpool beat Spurs, does that mean Blackpool are better team than Spurs?

And that is everyone else's fault how? At least the Prem isn't corrupt.

See, you are diverting the topic. Never i said Serie A is close to Premier league. I even rated Serie A in the 4th place behind Bundeslig. But to call Serie A as not among the best is delusional. After all they are the champions league holder and won more champions league than any league. Even in this decade they have dominated. Just after Falciopoli all the players were robbed by other leagues. It had so much impact on the league, they are struggling to recover. But the league is better than previous 2 seasons.

Regardless of how much Joss is saying this to downplay anyone's achievements or not, what he says is right. The Italian league is a big one, but honestly not as big as everyone makes out. It all depends on how you define "best leagues". IMO, the Prem and La Liga are ahead of everyone else, making them the best leagues. Someone else's definition might be different, but it is hard to deny Serie A is falling away from the pack.

Like i said, Premier league and La liga are ahead of other leagues. Then we have German and Serie A. Choice among 1,2 and 3,4 is up to individuals. But to say Serie A is not among the best is a joke. They are current champions league holders too.


Really goes to show how backwards and reliant on ageing players the Italian leagues are, then, doesn't it? When Massimo Ambrosini and Gennaro Gattuso at this stage of their careers are key players, you know you need a new start.

One of the key player for United is VDS and in 2008-09 it was Giggsy. I dont even think it is a problem. Age is not a problem as long as the players are performing. Gattuso is the heart of the team and he would rather die than stopping to try to win. He is a winner. Ambrosini is a quality player to. They are aged players but in the game at Lane, Seedorf was the best player on the pitch. So age hardly matters as long as the player is doing his job.

Carvalho- 32 years, still key player for Jose's side.
Zanetti- 37 years, Key player in the Inter's treble winning side.
Puyol 32 years. Still key player for Barca
Lampard - 32 or 33 years still a goal machine.

So age is not a proof of players performance or importance to their teams.
 
Not at all overrated. Overrated is someone like Bale. Sanchez is not even getting the credit he deserves. He is amazing player and naturally gifted one. He is tearing defenses for fun. He was not preferred in the first half and was rarely used. In the last few months he has started to flourish.

Regardless of Bale's talent, Sanchez is still overrated. Right there you have given the definition of a player who is having a good run of form.

Same can be said about Spurs. Awful defense and Strikers but a good midfield. That doesn't mean they are average team. It is not about just the names, it is team as a whole. Napoli are doing excellently and fighting for league title.
Right, except Spurs aren't playing a formation that will more or less completely negate any advantages of the opposition side and give them a big advantage. If you want to credit Mazzari for introducing them to a formation that happens to give them an advantage every time they play a team using the predominant formation in the league, be my guest, it is a stroke of genius, but it doesn't automatically make Napoli a good team, it makes them a team which has benefitted from the tactical naivety of the Italian Leagues.

Also, since when does Napoli have a good midfield and bad strikers? It's the complete opposite: with Hamsik, Lavezzi and Cavani playing as a front three, it is their strikers who are the threat of the team. People like Pazienza and Walter Gargano are decent, tactically aware players, but they cannot compare with a player of Modric or VdV's quality.

Napoli are a decent team and I like them, but to say that they're fighting for the title when they're level on games and eight points off being level with Milan is a stretch by anyone's imagination.

Agree or disagree, artistic players are rare breed in premier league.
Maybe, but you yourself have just agreed that they exist. As such, we're not ALL "butchers and thugs". In people like Cesc Fabregas, Paul Scholes, Modric, Van der Vaart, Samir Nasri, Mikel Arteta (the list goes on) we have playmakers and artists on a par with any Serie A has to offer.

One tie wont prove anything. I haven't seen many saying Inter are the best team when they won Champions league. All the wanking was about how Barca played. Milan are great team with rich history. Just a matter of time they will be back to their best.

Blackpool beat Spurs, does that mean Blackpool are better team than Spurs?
One tie is all we have to compare them, unfortunately. We can say that Spurs are a better team than Blackpool because they're competing for Europe, whereas Blackpool aren't. Likewise, we can say Milan are better than Catania, because they're top and Catania aren't. But we have nothing to go on with Spurs and Milan past a simple head to head two legged tie, which Spurs won.

History has nothing to do with current success. Nottingham Forest have a rich history, so by those standards they should be better than Bolton, right? Unfortunately for Milan, they will need a big dollop of cash from Mr Berlusconi's pockets to be able to compete as (admittedly excellent) players like Jankulovski, Pirlo, Ambrosini, Seedorf, Gattuso, Nesta, Van Bommel and Zambrotta age and decline.

See, you are diverting the topic. Never i said Serie A is close to Premier league. I even rated Serie A in the 4th place behind Bundeslig. But to call Serie A as not among the best is delusional. After all they are the champions league holder and won more champions league than any league. Even in this decade they have dominated. Just after Falciopoli all the players were robbed by other leagues. It had so much impact on the league, they are struggling to recover. But the league is better than previous 2 seasons.
Calciopoli was their fault. I'm not going to cut them any slack for being corrupt.

The Italian leagues are not among the best (which are the Prem and La Liga). They are behind them. Being among them implies they are of relatively equal standards, which they are conclusively not. They're worse than the Bundesliga, which speaks volumes. I don't care how much they've dominated in the past, their decline has been precipitous. Even when Inter won, everyone still knew the Italian leagues weren't the best in the world. Inter were a good team, bought with quite a bit of cash, managed by the best non-Alex Ferguson manager in the world. They did well. But their league is not the best in the world. Italian team's performance in the European competitions this year rather reflects that.

One of the key player for United is VDS and in 2008-09 it was Giggsy. I dont even think it is a problem. Age is not a problem as long as the players are performing. Gattuso is the heart of the team and he would rather die than stopping to try to win. He is a winner. Ambrosini is a quality player to. They are aged players but in the game at Lane, Seedorf was the best player on the pitch. So age hardly matters as long as the player is doing his job.

Carvalho- 32 years, still key player for Jose's side.
Zanetti- 37 years, Key player in the Inter's treble winning side.
Puyol 32 years. Still key player for Barca
Lampard - 32 or 33 years still a goal machine.
Interesting argument. You make a good point, apart from one crucial thing. United and Chelsea do not rely on those players, and neither does Barca. If they do, then the old players in question are limited in number. Milan have both. If the players you mentioned as being the heart to Milan really are, Milan have a problem. Ambrosini, Pirlo and Gattuso are all pivotal to Milan, and I would add Seedorf and Nesta to that list. That's five players that the best team in Italy are relying on that are ageing fast.

Age doesn't matter so long as the player is doing his job, no, but how much longer are they going to continue to do that? Age brings a lot of things: decreased pace, increased injury proneness (interestingly, considering how their supposed spine of 30 pluses were all out, albeit Gattuso for psychopathic reasons) On top of that, you could rather argue that they aren't doing their job if they're losing to Tottenham...
 
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Carvalho- 32 years, still key player for Jose's side.
Zanetti- 37 years, Key player in the Inter's treble winning side.
Puyol 32 years. Still key player for Barca
Lampard - 32 or 33 years still a goal machine.

So age is not a proof of players performance or importance to their teams.

32 is the new 40 apparently.

VDS is an awful example - GKs at every level are expected to hold down a spot for several years and be in their prime in their 30s.
 
Interesting argument. You make a good point, apart from one crucial thing. United and Chelsea do not rely on those players, and neither does Barca. If they do, then the old players in question are limited in number. Milan have both. If the players you mentioned as being the heart to Milan really are, Milan have a problem. Ambrosini, Pirlo and Gattuso are all pivotal to Milan, and I would add Seedorf and Nesta to that list. That's five players that the best team in Italy are relying on that are ageing fast.

Age doesn't matter so long as the player is doing his job, no, but how much longer are they going to continue to do that? Age brings a lot of things: decreased pace, increased injury proneness (interestingly, considering how their supposed spine of 30 pluses were all out, albeit Gattuso for psychopathic reasons) On top of that, you could rather argue that they aren't doing their job if they're losing to Tottenham...

It also depends on the lifestyle the player has. A player like Ronaldo or Ronaldinho or Adriano, will be finished by the time they are 32-33. No wonder they return to their home countries because A) they dont have the professionalism to stick in a top European club B) Their body has suffered too much abuse in recent years (alcohol, drugs, etc)

Then on the other side, I agree, you have players like Zanetti, that despite being 37 is still playing in a consistent manner. But that also takes lots of discipline, taking care of his health and so on, including the factor of having luck with injuries and so on. Must aged players may have some disadvantages in terms of fitness and pace, but SOME gain on mental abilities, experience, how to handle some type of games, etc. Not to mention that they might be considered as legends in some of their clubs. Example: Del Piero, Giggs, Scholes, Puyol, etc

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If you expect me to reply with a real response; you need to make sense. Are you doubting the truth of my statement?


I am making sense. Wouldnt you want to progress with Tottenham and lets say, reach the final, or do you prefer to take your chances with which could be arguably the best team not only in this CL but maybe in history of football. Just check the stats from the game against Arsenal. 19 shots on goal against "0". 74% posession time. The game ended 3-1, it could have ended much worse. And its true that Arsenal might have won the game with Bendtner last attempt, but be honest, 9 out of 10 games, Arsenal would have lost that game. What Arsenal does to 95% of the teams in the PL, Barcelona did it to them (in terms of posession)

Besides, off topic, I cant say anything else to a person that has Natalie Portman sending kisses...:)

---------- Post added at 08:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:36 AM ----------

Sanchez is an excellent player. No wonder Inter made a bid which was rejected and Chelsea are also in for him.

Napoli are good team. Cavani is a beast who could rip any defense.

It is fairly boring as the game is played at slower tempo, likewise Italians feel Premier league is boring as we have only butchers, thugs and hardly any technically gifted players. Not everyone loves fast tempo games. Spurs are no way better than Milan, and also there is always Inter who are the current champions.

Right now not many Italian teams can fight for the champions league as they are all hit by Inter scandal. They take time to recover.

This is not about Premier league Vs Serie A, you said Serie A is not one of the best league, which is clearly wrong and also bitterness as Spurs beat Milan, so to downplay their achievement you lot said Serie A is ****.

The Spine of Milan may average over 100 for all i care, bottomline is they are the first choice midfielders and without them Milan suffer badly.


Napoli is a good team. They are challenging the Serie A title, and have some good players there. Now, its hard to compare leagues, because people have different tastes and all that. In my opinion, Serie A is quite poor. The Italian teams dont have the usual weight in continental competitions and most of the games are quite boring. The PL is by far more entertaining and so is the Bundesliga. And there is La Liga, which of course is a two team league in the recent years. But hey, you have the BEST players in the world in those teams. Recent EuroCup champions, and World Cup Champions. Cristiano Ronaldo vs Messi, head to head, fighting for being top goalscorers. CR7 scored so far 38 Goals in 40 games, and Messi 45 in 39 goals. This Barcelona will leave a legacy, and breaking records that are over 50 years old. I dont about the rest, but I really enjoy watching Barcelona play. The opponent, regardless of where they are from (England, Spain, Italy) look like a 2nd rated team against them.
 
Regardless of Bale's talent, Sanchez is still overrated. Right there you have given the definition of a player who is having a good run of form.
11 league goals for someone who is getting run of games. He is brilliant. Not at all overrated. Like i said, he is not getting the credit he deserves.
Right, except Spurs aren't playing a formation that will more or less completely negate any advantages of the opposition side and give them a big advantage. If you want to credit Mazzari for introducing them to a formation that happens to give them an advantage every time they play a team using the predominant formation in the league, be my guest, it is a stroke of genius, but it doesn't automatically make Napoli a good team, it makes them a team which has benefitted from the tactical naivety of the Italian Leagues.

I think we should leave about individual teams as we are not going to agree with each other any time soon. This is like saying United is a poor team only SAF is making them to win games. Which i dont buy as usual.


Maybe, but you yourself have just agreed that they exist. As such, we're not ALL "butchers and thugs". In people like Cesc Fabregas, Paul Scholes, Modric, Van der Vaart, Samir Nasri, Mikel Arteta (the list goes on) we have playmakers and artists on a par with any Serie A has to offer.

Like i told rare breed. Serie A loves players gifted technically and the games are tactical battles.

One tie is all we have to compare them, unfortunately. We can say that Spurs are a better team than Blackpool because they're competing for Europe, whereas Blackpool aren't. Likewise, we can say Milan are better than Catania, because they're top and Catania aren't. But we have nothing to go on with Spurs and Milan past a simple head to head two legged tie, which Spurs won.

Will go by your logic. Dortmund are clear favs to win the league and are some 10 plus points ahead of the second placed team. They didn't even qualify from group stage. We are talking about Europa. So what does that mean about Bundesliga? Poorest of them all?

And apart from Barca, which team has done anything in the champions league.Madrid have not even got past round of 16. So La liga should be a joke of a league. Madrid got eliminated by Lyon last season but i wouldn't say Lyon are better than Madrid. It is just that on that day Lyon were better.


History has nothing to do with current success. Nottingham Forest have a rich history, so by those standards they should be better than Bolton, right? Unfortunately for Milan, they will need a big dollop of cash from Mr Berlusconi's pockets to be able to compete as (admittedly excellent) players like Jankulovski, Pirlo, Ambrosini, Seedorf, Gattuso, Nesta, Van Bommel and Zambrotta age and decline.

There is a big difference between Nottingham forest and Milan. We are talking about the team that won Champions league some 3 years back murdersing Man Utd and Liverpool. Individual team doesn't tell anything about league. If so La Liga will be running ahead of everyone. It is about how the talent is distributed and how the mid table teams play against the top ones.


The Italian leagues are not among the best (which are the Prem and La Liga). They are behind them. Being among them implies they are of relatively equal standards, which they are conclusively not. They're worse than the Bundesliga, which speaks volumes. I don't care how much they've dominated in the past, their decline has been precipitous. Even when Inter won, everyone still knew the Italian leagues weren't the best in the world. Inter were a good team, bought with quite a bit of cash, managed by the best non-Alex Ferguson manager in the world. They did well. But their league is not the best in the world. Italian team's performance in the European competitions this year rather reflects that.

See you are contradicting. You told Spurs are better than Milan as they won the tie. We can apply the same logic and say Inter are the best team. It wont matter who was the manager. It was all about collective effort and Jose was part of Inter, not Inter was part of Jose.

Interesting argument. You make a good point, apart from one crucial thing. United and Chelsea do not rely on those players, and neither does Barca. If they do, then the old players in question are limited in number. Milan have both. If the players you mentioned as being the heart to Milan really are, Milan have a problem. Ambrosini, Pirlo and Gattuso are all pivotal to Milan, and I would add Seedorf and Nesta to that list. That's five players that the best team in Italy are relying on that are ageing fast.
United do rely on VDS. We have learnt our lessons when we failed to replace Great Dane.
Lampard is the most reliable Chelsea player who has scored 20 plus goals for 6 seasons .Even this season we have seen the difference in Chelsea with and without Lampard.
Puyol is the rock at defense, we have seen how vulnerable Pique is without Puyol. He is the key player for them.

Seedorf is not key player just a part timer, Pirlo is and he is accompanied with 2 more CMs, he plays deeper role ala Scholes, so i dont think Age is a big factor.He is a deep lying play maker.


32 is the new 40 apparently.

VDS is an awful example - GKs at every level are expected to hold down a spot for several years and be in their prime in their 30s.

You should be knowing Amrosini is 33, Gattuso is 33, Pirlo is 31. Not even close to 40.

GKs do lose their agility and Reflexes in their late 30s. How is it an Awful example. And good that you didn't chose other players that i have mentioned who are of same age as Ambro, Gattuso and Pirlo.
 
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