West Ham Killing it (Akash777's 4-1-2-2-1)

  • Thread starter Thread starter akash777
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 109
  • Views Views 69K
Just a question.
Anyone else notice decreasing ratings now on fullrelease???
Even if i dominate i cant' get players over 7 rating unless they score.
Like Coke my Wingback had 2 assists and got 6.9 rating despite keepign a clean sheet.
 
View attachment 330256

Sevilla V.3 Test

Transfers

View attachment 330264

Lineup

View attachment 330263View attachment 330262

Resoults

View attachment 330261

Tables

View attachment 330259View attachment 330260

Stats

View attachment 330258View attachment 330257


Impression

Seeming the squad was lacking the quality at Center Midtfield and had some trubble with the defence i reinforced the squad with Lucas Romero for DLP and Balanta for DCL. Balanta Injured so not realy played much. I was going to aim for Bacca as Maint force up front so i let Gameiro go cheap to Liverpool for 10mp, altho i think i could have gotten around 20 if i was realy trying, this is just a test save, and 10mp was all i needed to get enough budget to reinforce some much needed key positiones.
Sevilla also lacks some quality out wide, but Veteran Reyes have delivered alright on the right side, and particulary set up Coke to deliver a tonn of assists for Bacca.
On the left side i can only dream of having the likes of Depay or Sterling, but i have to settle for Vitolo on rotation with Deulofeu, who has on occasions showed some class.

the formation looks solid, but having it be a counter, i find myself to lack position to create to much vs the bigger teams.

that said, with some key reinforcements i think i could do a lot better than what currently do vs large teams. Overall i cannot complaine as im sitting 2nd in the league, and the performance of the team has overall been very strong despite hardly seeing ratings above 7 (ratings are crapp on full game for me)

Overall i rate this as a very good tactic and i encourage more of you to try it out.

I will report back with final standings as soon as season is over.

PeAcE!​
 
Conn said:
THIS is the weakness of the tactic as it currently stands.
View attachment 702830
Click to expand...

How were Barcelona Hammering you?
down the wings or through the middle?
I might have a 4-2-3-1 for times when we need a goal.
With Leeds,if we needed a goal,I went control with a deep line.You can try doing that if you are struggling for player ratings?
 
Made a West Ham game as my first save for this years FM and made two similar tactics that I was trying during the pre-season. Came across your tactic Akash and implemented a lot of your instructions from your first version and it's been working really well so far.

Mostly been using Counter against similar or better opponents unless there are obvious weaknesses I can exploit by using Attacking and other tweaks. It's been really solid as long as I don't have to defend set pieces a lot - as that's pretty broken in the game at the moment - both score and concede a lot from set pieces. Doesn't help that, as you mention in your post, keepers' handling is really poor.

Once Sakho started bagging lots of goals this tactic has been really good against bigger opponents like Chelsea, United and City as well. Some of my better results have been 2-2 away against Tottenham, 2-1 win home against Man Utd and 3-3 away against Chelsea. In the Tottenham match I was up 2-0 and lost within the last ten minutes although I tried to protect the lead as much as possible. Against Chelsea I was leading 3-1 but just before fulltime I scored an own goal off a set pieces and then Hazard scored on a direct freekick at '90. So protecting leads is still an issue but that's mostly down to making the correct tweaks when teams are pushing for an equaliser and having a team with the right determination etc.

I'm also looking into some of the problems you've been having with defending crosses and also be a bit more sensible in possession - especially the midfield - without sacrificing through-balls.

A small summary of the season so far with West Ham in the PL is 11 matches played and with a record of 5-5-1 won/draw/lost and 25 goals for and 12 against. Playing with pretty much 99% default squad as the only player I've bought that is actually playing (and not loaned out) is Daniel Berntsen.
 
serp1 said:
Made a West Ham game as my first save for this years FM and made two similar tactics that I was trying during the pre-season. Came across your tactic Akash and implemented a lot of your instructions from your first version and it's been working really well so far.

Mostly been using Counter against similar or better opponents unless there are obvious weaknesses I can exploit by using Attacking and other tweaks. It's been really solid as long as I don't have to defend set pieces a lot - as that's pretty broken in the game at the moment - both score and concede a lot from set pieces. Doesn't help that, as you mention in your post, keepers' handling is really poor.

Once Sakho started bagging lots of goals this tactic has been really good against bigger opponents like Chelsea, United and City as well. Some of my better results have been 2-2 away against Tottenham, 2-1 win home against Man Utd and 3-3 away against Chelsea. In the Tottenham match I was up 2-0 and lost within the last ten minutes although I tried to protect the lead as much as possible. Against Chelsea I was leading 3-1 but just before fulltime I scored an own goal off a set pieces and then Hazard scored on a direct freekick at '90. So protecting leads is still an issue but that's mostly down to making the correct tweaks when teams are pushing for an equaliser and having a team with the right determination etc.

I'm also looking into some of the problems you've been having with defending crosses and also be a bit more sensible in possession - especially the midfield - without sacrificing through-balls.

A small summary of the season so far with West Ham in the PL is 11 matches played and with a record of 5-5-1 won/draw/lost and 25 goals for and 12 against. Playing with pretty much 99% default squad as the only player I've bought that is actually playing (and not loaned out) is Daniel Berntsen.
Click to expand...

For defending corners,try the defence on the new version.It is doing better than the others.
Thing is,I can make the opposition have long shots,but then when the keeper spills them,opposition reacts first,all the time!
I think this may be down to the Offside Trap,so I am looking at creating something with a deeper defence.Also I think a deeper defence might help us bring the opposition out better to slam them on the counter?
I shall have a look at things.
One thing I have really been trying is to make the wingers into wide midfielders but I can't seem to get it working.I believe that might be the best way to defend as opposition will have trouble finding space with a fluid midfield and the counter philosophy?
Just ideas man.
My problem is I can not seem to keep anything consistent.I watch games on comprehensive so I keep on making changes lol.
But like my main reason for creating something with a DM was to keep clean sheets.And right now,it seems impossible with the ME,so I might scrap the DM and try to go for a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-4-1-1 with the 4-1-2-2-1 or a 4-1-4-1 as a lead holder?
Maybe having different tactics will really confuse the AI?
Just thoughts again!
 
akash777 said:
For defending corners,try the defence on the new version.It is doing better than the others.
Thing is,I can make the opposition have long shots,but then when the keeper spills them,opposition reacts first,all the time!
I think this may be down to the Offside Trap,so I am looking at creating something with a deeper defence.Also I think a deeper defence might help us bring the opposition out better to slam them on the counter?
I shall have a look at things.
One thing I have really been trying is to make the wingers into wide midfielders but I can't seem to get it working.I believe that might be the best way to defend as opposition will have trouble finding space with a fluid midfield and the counter philosophy?
Just ideas man.
My problem is I can not seem to keep anything consistent.I watch games on comprehensive so I keep on making changes lol.
But like my main reason for creating something with a DM was to keep clean sheets.And right now,it seems impossible with the ME,so I might scrap the DM and try to go for a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-4-1-1 with the 4-1-2-2-1 or a 4-1-4-1 as a lead holder?
Maybe having different tactics will really confuse the AI?
Just thoughts again!
Click to expand...
I've had great success with defending deep and using pass into space i.e. in previous FM versions but that really depends on how good your team is - since you have to be able to keep your change and allow the opposition somewhat deep into your half and then intercept/tackle and win the ball back to launch a counter. And yeah, does seem that offside trap does make defenders a bit sloppy on rebounds and such. Defenders have generally been less on the edge compared to attackers in situations where the keeper spills the ball.

I'm also looking into dropping the DM for a 4-3-2-1 or I'll try a wide 4-2-3-1 but with two DMs where I'll try to force the opposition inwards via OIs and pressing out wide. Having two DMs working as a shield for the back four in defense/without possession and more like box-to-box midfielders once in possession has worked really well for me in previous versions.

Edit: Since Carroll just got back from injury I'm also working on an alternative tactic: a 4-4-1-1 based around Carroll as a TM and Zarate as SS.
 
Last edited:
akash777 said:
How were Barcelona Hammering you?
down the wings or through the middle?
I might have a 4-2-3-1 for times when we need a goal.
With Leeds,if we needed a goal,I went control with a deep line.You can try doing that if you are struggling for player ratings?
Click to expand...

Barcelona was all over me, geting behind the fullbacks by eighter passing or beating them 1v1 and crossing into the box. I dont think i even was over the middle much :/

This is the resoults after that game i have done so far.

View attachment 330201

Its very solid defencively.

In the 5-0 win at the end there i changed wingers to AP and put sit narrow to allowe the backs more space to cross. also removed run wide with ball from CF. I set attack and added more direct.

This was due to seeing if i could produce more forward than getting the regulare 1-2 goals.
only need to figure out how to create more chances vs stronger teams. looking forward to transferwindow so i maybe can reinforce the wingers/fullbacks
 
serp1 said:
I've had great success with defending deep and using pass into space i.e. in previous FM versions but that really depends on how good your team is - since you have to be able to keep your change and allow the opposition somewhat deep into your half and then intercept/tackle and win the ball back to launch a counter. And yeah, does seem that offside trap does make defenders a bit sloppy on rebounds and such. Defenders have generally been less on the edge compared to attackers in situations where the keeper spills the ball.

I'm also looking into dropping the DM for a 4-3-2-1 or I'll try a wide 4-2-3-1 but with two DMs where I'll try to force the opposition inwards via OIs and pressing out wide. Having two DMs working as a shield for the back four in defense/without possession and more like box-to-box midfielders once in possession has worked really well for me in previous versions.

Edit: Since Carroll just got back from injury I'm also working on an alternative tactic: a 4-4-1-1 based around Carroll as a TM and Zarate as SS.
Click to expand...


serp I think we should talk more,I have been tinkering with the 4-4-1-1 as well lol.
And I am using a shadow striker as well.
Lets see what I can come up with.

Conn said:
Barcelona was all over me, geting behind the fullbacks by eighter passing or beating them 1v1 and crossing into the box. I dont think i even was over the middle much :/

This is the resoults after that game i have done so far.

View attachment 702953

Its very solid defencively.

In the 5-0 win at the end there i changed wingers to AP and put sit narrow to allowe the backs more space to cross. also removed run wide with ball from CF. I set attack and added more direct.

This was due to seeing if i could produce more forward than getting the regulare 1-2 goals.
only need to figure out how to create more chances vs stronger teams. looking forward to transferwindow so i maybe can reinforce the wingers/fullbacks
Click to expand...


Yea I think I will stop the Complete Forward to stop going out wide too.And I actually agree with all of what you said,the wingers and the fullbacks seem to come in each others way a lot too for my liking.Good ideas,I will try them too.
 
Ever thought about doing a version with a AMC? Or will it be too shaky defense wise? Always been a huge fan of AMCS :)
 
whispers said:
Ever thought about doing a version with a AMC? Or will it be too shaky defense wise? Always been a huge fan of AMCS :)
Click to expand...

Sure AMC is kinda fun and all that, but that would be to totaly remove the point of this tactic would it not?

Id rather see how it pans out moving winders to AP and sit narrow to keep the composure of the tactice to as it was suited to be. Not that its probably the best way to do it. This tactic aint for everybody, but neighter is FM and the epic crashes you get when you least expect it :p

If i woult think about what to look at, it would be to make the DM a Ballwinning Midtfielder, tweak striker altho he scores loads, Tweak the inside forwards and tweak the fullbacks.

If you want to run counter then prahaps a more direct approach could be tested.
If you want to have 3 versions of this i would like to say that making an attacking one with room to adjust mentality, keeping the counter, and prahaps craftign a more direct counter one would be the way to go. that should give you 3 aspects of influencing the game as of what you need to get out of it.
 
whispers said:
Ever thought about doing a version with a AMC? Or will it be too shaky defense wise? Always been a huge fan of AMCS :)
Click to expand...

I have a 4-4-1-1 but its got the same problem as this tactic,that is it relies on player skill to score goals rather than the tactic I suppose?Like with Chelsea I just played 25 games,conceding only 15 and scoring 80 odd goals.
But say with a lower team it doesn't score that much?
On the other hand,I just fooled around and made a 4-2-3-1 that has scored 24 in 6 games and conceded 6,so its very unstable defensively.
I just cannot seem to find the right balance atm lol.

Conn said:
Sure AMC is kinda fun and all that, but that would be to totaly remove the point of this tactic would it not?

Id rather see how it pans out moving winders to AP and sit narrow to keep the composure of the tactice to as it was suited to be. Not that its probably the best way to do it. This tactic aint for everybody, but neighter is FM and the epic crashes you get when you least expect it :p

If i woult think about what to look at, it would be to make the DM a Ballwinning Midtfielder, tweak striker altho he scores loads, Tweak the inside forwards and tweak the fullbacks.

If you want to run counter then prahaps a more direct approach could be tested.
If you want to have 3 versions of this i would like to say that making an attacking one with room to adjust mentality, keeping the counter, and prahaps craftign a more direct counter one would be the way to go. that should give you 3 aspects of influencing the game as of what you need to get out of it.
Click to expand...


Conn,I kind off played around with the game all day and was really successful with Chelsea playing a high 4-1-4-1 and a deeper 4-4-1-1.Chelsea scored for fun with it lol.
When I tried the same tactics with Hertha,in my first 7 games we scored 10 and conceded 4,losing two of the games.After that,I took to changing and going attacking as it seemed with a weaker defence they could kept missing vital headers or making mistakes which meant a defensive game was not suitable as that one lapse in concentration made the whole defensive game go away.
So after that,I decided to go Gung-Ho(for me) and go with a 4-2-3-1.
As mentioned above,I have won all 6 of the games scoring 24 but I have conceded quite a few.
If you want,I can give you the 4-2-3-1 so that you can have a go and tell me what you think it is thats making it so bad in defence?
 
Ok so this just happened:
View attachment 330106
Worth mentioning,they scored from a Alaba header from a corner.
We scored from a corner and a direct free kick but that was only after Kalou missed 4 CCCs.

The games highlighted are the ones played with the 4-2-3-1:
View attachment 330105
To be honest,I am not a big follower of German football so not sure of how good the team is,like I have literally just clicked on play best xi and played on commentary with full speed lol. You might ask how do I want to create a tactic on commentary,well the answer is I did not want to. I had my defensive tactic already,so since I am going to bed now,I just wanted to fool around with a 4-2-3-1 because someone wanted something with an amc and well it seems so good so far.Like I am guessing with Kalou and all Berlin are like the Everton or Newcastle of German football,so its not a lot to build on.
But I particularly liked how it beat Bayern,Dortmund,GSK and Leverkusen since they are probably a bit better than the Berlin teams and also beaten them in terms of CCC as well.
I think I will import this tactic into my Chelsea save and see how Chelsea go with it lol.
 
I think there is something wrong here,plugged it into the Chelsea save and first match against Man United I thrashed them.All good,4 CCC and & half chances vs there 4 Half chances but what I dont understand is how all of a sudden they score two from set pieces?
I mean I used the same set piece instruction on Chelsea with the same players(different positions,but same players) and I conceded only 12 in 21 games and now we concede 2 in 1 game.Ridiculous.Not happy at all with this 4-2-3-1. Seriously need to rethink defensive corner and freekick set up all over again!!!
Screenshots if you dont believe me:
View attachment 330104
League Table:
View attachment 330103
Fixtures:
View attachment 330102
View attachment 330101
As you can see I have beaten the big boys before using a 4-1-4-1 and a 4-4-1-1 and beaten them big so still unsure about the 4-2-3-1.
 
Hertha BSC's team isnt very good so your results is impressive
 
whispers said:
Hertha BSC's team isnt very good so your results is impressive
Click to expand...

In which case,the results have been very impressive lol.
I couldn't sleep till we lost so I kept playing till the halfway mark around when we had our first game where we had less CCC than opposition and lost as well.
Screenshots follow.
View attachment 330092View attachment 330091

Final updates for tonight.I might try to go back from this to the 4-1-2-2-1 to see if that can be used to protect a lead but that means I have to play instead of instant resulting lol.Too much work for me now lol.
What positions do you reckon I should look at strengthening since the board gave me 8.75m and I did not buy anyone at the start of the game?
 
To be fair all of the team needs strengthening but i would look at the defense and if you have any sparemoney i would go for a striker :) i hope this tactic comes out soon so i can try it out :P really excited about it
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

FMBase

Beta

Resources

Back
Top