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4-1-2-1-2 Leeds Possesion

aramis

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Apr 19, 2010
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Can you please take a look at my tactic and say if it has any major flaws? Did I made some big mistakes with players role or team instruction?
I want to make a tactic in wich my team don't concede to much and we will be in the first 3 teams in championship.
I started 4 or maybe 5 saves with Leeds this year on FM15, played 4 or 5 seasons and then something didn't feel right ( signings- i'm to cheap, never spent more then ~10 milions pounds on a player, tactics etc).
I can't play this game with other teams. So I will start another save, I hope this time it will be the right one, because i like playing at least 20 seasons at a club. I wont buy FM16 until i make it right with Leeds on FM15, at least 20 seasons played. But I have to get the tactic right from the start. I don't have the time anymore to start another save after half of the season went wrong. And i can't reload games or seasons. I rather start a new save then cheat.

This is the tactic I was thinking about. Please tell me your opinion. Thanks.View attachment 221491View attachment 221490
 

Igneos79

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Jun 19, 2010
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well, the first thing that strikes me is that you are playing fluid control, which means increased agression and creativity, and at the same time, you want to play a lower tempo and short passing, which would, IMHO, require a disciplined and non agressive approach...shorter passing works better with players staying behind the ball, rather then going ahead of it with control mentality...id rather play a higher tempo with direct passing....then I see your formation and notice you rely on overlapping fullbacks to offer width, which would fit an attacking, very fluid approach, or total football if you wish, which would fit the best team in league trying to dominate opposition, and I doubt leeds are capable of that. If it were me, id keep the fluid control part, but change passing and tempo and switch to a more appropriate formation, with 2 wide players and 2 fullbacks, but im not sure if you have those players at your disposal....
 

aramis

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Apr 19, 2010
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Thanks for your answer. I will try direct passing and higher tempo but i have to set it in a 442 diamond wide. I don't tink high tempo and direct passing works with my narrow setul. I don't have wide players but i can retrain someone to play wm.
And maybe use the narrow setup without short passing and lower tempo?
 

WJ

Member
Apr 3, 2014
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well, the first thing that strikes me is that you are playing fluid control, which means increased agression and creativity, and at the same time, you want to play a lower tempo and short passing, which would, IMHO, require a disciplined and non agressive approach...shorter passing works better with players staying behind the ball, rather then going ahead of it with control mentality...id rather play a higher tempo with direct passing....then I see your formation and notice you rely on overlapping fullbacks to offer width, which would fit an attacking, very fluid approach, or total football if you wish, which would fit the best team in league trying to dominate opposition, and I doubt leeds are capable of that. If it were me, id keep the fluid control part, but change passing and tempo and switch to a more appropriate formation, with 2 wide players and 2 fullbacks, but im not sure if you have those players at your disposal....
Don't confuse him.

It's shortER passing, lowER tempo from the fairly short passing at the back, the fairly direct passing up front and fairly high default tempo, as has been pointed out to you before.

The attacking fullbacks part is rubbish and tbh, so is the rest of that post.
 

aramis

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Apr 19, 2010
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Thanks. I'm goana try all of them. My original idea and the one with the sugested changes. Maybe something works. If not i"ll start avan after being sacked.
 

WJ

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Apr 3, 2014
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Maybe something works.
They are 2 very different styles. "Something" will work, but isn't it better to play how YOU want to rather than just copying & pasting something without having any idea why it "works"?
 

aramis

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Apr 19, 2010
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That's why i'm trying to make my own tactic. In the four or five saves I played with Leeds this year all the tactics I used where my own , haven't played with someone else yet. I completly agree with you and I really want to learn why it works or why it doesn't.
 

WJ

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Apr 3, 2014
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That's why i'm trying to make my own tactic. In the four or five saves I played with Leeds this year all the tactics I used where my own , haven't played with someone else yet. I completly agree with you and I really want to learn why it works or why it doesn't.
Then set up according to your vision of how you want to play. That's the easiest, because if a player isn't doing what you want him to (making/not making runs, pulling wide or not, shooting instead of passing etc) then you can spot that quickly and rectify it. Even if you don't know how to fix it, you still know the problem and can ask advice here for it and by having all that info, you can get accurate advice, quickly.

If you really are starting from scratch with this, don't overdo it with TIs at first. You can always add if you see you need something. Knowing which TI is harming a tactic can be difficult.

Take passing for example. Control Mentality has fairly direct passing for your front players and fairly short passing at the back (to encourage the attacking mentality and keeping possession, respectively) by DEFAULT - without any TIs. Play Out of Defence + Shorter Passing will end up having a VERY short range for your defenders and that could harm the tactic more than helping.
 

aramis

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Apr 19, 2010
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Thanks. This is what i'm going to do tonight. Now i'm reading lines& diamond, pairs and combinations and the twelve step guide. I play fm for a lot of years but I haven't had a good save like when the game was called championship manager since fm 2011. It's about time to read and re-read about tactics.
 

WJ

Member
Apr 3, 2014
4,477
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Thanks. This is what i'm going to do tonight. Now i'm reading lines& diamond, pairs and combinations and the twelve step guide. I play fm for a lot of years but I haven't had a good save like when the game was called championship manager since fm 2011. It's about time to read and re-read about tactics.
They're excellent guides. At minimum, read: 12 steps, Pairs&Comb and the Tactics Creator section of Lines & Diamonds where TIs/PIs are explained. The rest of Lines and Diamonds is very good too though, so if you have the time, go for it.

Any questions about what you're reading, ask here or ask the authors directly in their threads on the SI forum. Top mods there who can help.
 
Oct 30, 2013
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Another thing which multiple people suggest to do. I do it quite often now as well. Watch the match on full, yes it means matches may take longer, but it is much easier to spot what your team is doing wrong in terms of how you want to play, it also means you can make pro-active decisions based on what you are seeing unfold.

An easy example I noticed of this for myself was, I noticed my AML was receiving a lot of the ball, but kept running into a position where the RB was just blocking him from marking him well, to counter this I decided to just tick roam from position on this player to get him to avoid the RB as much, as a result he found more space and he was much harder for the RB to stop, then if you feel very happy with how your team are playing you can always knock it down to comprehensive, but I do feel now from using it more, I will keep matches on full and watch it in more detail as I can decide who I really feel isn't performing.
 

aramis

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Apr 19, 2010
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SO:

A. How I want Leeds United to play?
1. Pressing in the opponent half
2.Try and win the ball in the opponent half or at halfline
3. Defenders and midfielders can play at a lower tempo and short passing, I accept backwards and lateral passes from midfield and defence but for my strikers I want them to play fast , do not hold on the ball, play 1~2, rather take a shoot than pass if the situation allows. I don't want my strikers to wait with the ball at their feet until an opponent takes the ball from them.
4. Score one goal more than the opposition mentality but...
5. Do not concede more than 5 goals against any opposition

4 and 5 are opptional.

B) What I want from my players? ( at a first glance)
1. GK
- defend/ be safe at back
- in one at one situations I want him to come forward and close down the opposition player, do not wait for him to shoot
maybe a SK on defend duty?
2. DR
-defend
- offer close support to midfielders
- go forward, offer width down the right flank ( I want the right flank to be more offensive than the left one)
- be one of the star players in the team and an important presence on the right side of the pitch
3. DL
- defend
- offer deep support to midfielders whitout taking risks in defence
4. DC
- both on CD defend duty , I think a stopper/cover will work but I want the default offside trap to work better
- defend, be safe at the back
- tackle hard but not in our own box
- not intersted for them to score otherwise then set pieces, not interested to support the more advanced players but I'm very interested from them to help keeping a clean sheet

5. DM
- defend
- helps the CD ( drops back and support defenders)
- close down opposition before getting in our own box
- tackle hard but not in the penalty area

6. CM (Cook)
- offer dynamic support in the midfield
- helps the defence
- support the more advanced players
- be one of my star players, score a few goals per season, be a leader in midfield, build the team around him

7. CM ( Mowatt)
- drop back and support the defenders when the team is under pressure
- offer advanced support in midfield
- run forward and support the more advanced players in the offensive phase

8. AM Adryan
- get forward and support the strikers - offer advanced support in the midfield
- maybe score afew goals by himself

9. ST Sharp
- score goals

10. ST Antenucci
- helps Sharp scores goals
-score goals

From the squad depth I think I can play only a 442 diamond narrow and a 4132/4312 narrow.
I think I'll choose the 442 diamond narrow.

Now I have to setup a tactic.
 

aramis

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Apr 19, 2010
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What do you think? it's this a good start?
I was thinking about an attacking mentality but i don't belive that my team can cope with it at this moment.
So a standard mentality wich I can switch during games to see what is working better?
No TI's until i see a few friendlies in full match.

I'm not sure about Cook role.

Thanks in advance.View attachment 221227
 

WJ

Member
Apr 3, 2014
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Seems quite attacking. You're going to force your ball carriers to pass forward. Not saying it's an issue; it's just my observation.
 

dutzu

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Dec 24, 2009
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The 442 diamond is dependant on the fullbacks. First you need to understand the strengths and weaknesses of the formation:

Strengths
  • Numbers in the centre and the protection of a DMC
  • Can become really compact and tight defensively
  • Plenty of attacking intent especially with the AMC
  • Rampaging full backs to provide the width
Weakness

  • Lack of players on the flanks
  • The team is vulnerable to fast changes of play and can get caught out of position especially if the opposition use the width of the pitch
  • Too narrow at times
  • Full backs can get exposed or even doubled up on
The 442 diamond normally consists of a flat back four, two central midfielder, a defensive midfielder, an attacking midfielder and 2 strikers. This set-up is very dependant on your fullbacks as they will be responsible for getting forward at every opportunity available because you have no wingers. So at times if the fullbacks are strggling to get forward you might find your strikers could get isolated for periods in the game. The wings can be a problem area at times, especially if you’re playing against two very good wingers as they will have lots of space and time on the ball. If you do use this formation ensure that your fullbacks are good going forward but extremely good at defending duties too
Also you may consider adapting according to opponent. Personally I'm not so good at creating tactics, but the tactics that I download I always tweak them based on my scout report or opponent I face.
Considering that the 442 diamond is dependant on the fullbacks I will change them into 2xWB(a) or 2xCWB(a) and I pay attention on the opponent I face. If my opponent have, let's say, a very good MR or AMR I will change my LB to support, so that he will stay a little bit deeper and close to the MR. Also I will change the RPM into a BTB or into a role a little bit defensiv. It's my personal opinion sorry if I'm wrong :D also sorry for my english.

Understanding The 4-4-2 | SI Sports Centre
It seems that I'm not allowed to post more links so I will PM you some more.

 

aramis

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Apr 19, 2010
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Thank you. I think that one of the reasons my advanced forward was strugling and not scoring was that I changed the full back on his side of the pitch in WB(S), FB(S) .

Multumesc,
 

WJ

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Apr 3, 2014
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Thank you. I think that one of the reasons my advanced forward was strugling and not scoring was that I changed the full back on his side of the pitch in WB(S), FB(S) .

Multumesc,
Pushing the left fullback up with an Attack duty is suicide for obvious reasons.
 

aramis

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Apr 19, 2010
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What I observed watching the games in full is that my team has possesions, has shoots, maybe scores but not so much as I want. The problem is we are not so good defensively, specially against counter attacks. I just played the game against Boltan and got defeated 3-2, all goals scored on counter. my team had possesion but did really nothing with it.

1. The first idea is that the problems are caused by the TI's I use : push higher up and close more. Maybe I should instead use drop deeeper, play narrower, be more disciplined .
2. The second problem I have is that I don't like the chosen mentality. Is like we have no identity, like we don't know what we really want to do. Attack or defence? I think this is what I should really decide. After that choose the acording mentality ( now the problem will be the fact that in fm an attacking mentality doesn't mean you're attacking and vice-versa). But at least I will know what I'm trying to do.
3. The games I won are really won because i watched the games in full and made quite a lot of adaptations during games. So the initial setup is not impressing me.
4. I don't like the formation but I don't think I can change it soon ... in january it will be a transfer embargo, next year IF i'm not sacked by then i will have to improve the team in curent shape because i can't afford three or four wingers and at the same time a good centre back, a decent striker, a left back, a defensive midfielder
5. On the left neither Taylor or White are performing so I will probably have to loan Garbutt. It's very clear that i need good wb.
6. I can't fix the problem with the trequartista, Adryan is underperforming every game, he gives me the impression that he thinks he's actually playing in real life. I would like to use a role that I personally like , the shadow striker, but I don't think this is the right formation for something like this... i don;t know Adryan SS and Antenucci F9 ?
7.Lots of players injured : Antenucci, Austin, N'Goyi, Sloth... View attachment 221020
 
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