4-1-2-1-2 Leeds Possesion
- Thread starter aramis
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You do not get it that your starting position is wrong.
If you put, like you did, basecaly, 6 players that, by defoult, have freedom to roam around, it is natural that your team will not act like team. You have CWB that has freedom of runing forward all the time, and with freedom to cut inside, you have BWM who is free to close down anyone with ball, you have DLP - support, who is sitting rolle verticaly, but it is free horizontaly, then you have RMP that has freedom of runing all over pitch, then Treq that has complete freedom of movement and F9 who also has almost complete freedom of movement. That is too much.
You do not have any team shape. It may start working after your team settles in rolles and your players start working together like unit, but I doubt that this will be the case.
If you want to play like Arsenal, then you have to rethink what you need to do.
1. They play very fluid as they attack like team and defend like one.
2. They do not have one or two creative player, but more of them and all of them have some creative freedom, but they do not have freedom of movement all over the pitch. They keep their team shape all the time.
And what you are doing is basecaly:
1. You limit their creativity by structured stlyle
2. You do not keep shape.
Think rationaly, if you give your player freedom to do what ever he wants, and if he knows where his other players are, would not this help your team settle faster and start playing as team. Or think further, if you do not have any playmaker role that has free movement shout integrated, then, al of Your players will know where all other players are at all time.
You could try simple - put desired instruction - attacking mentality, very fluid shape, and then put all generic, basic rolles to your players (this would be GK, FB-a, CD, CD, FB-s, DM-d, CM-d, CM-s/a, AM-a/s, DLF-s and AF-a) and by looking to games you try by changing one thing and look if this gives you what you want. This could be TI change (one at time and then watch), or PI (one and then watch), or player rolle change (one and then watch). Sometimes one small change can change a lott.
Conflictinbanno
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I'm going to echo what duca015 I think you're looking at the roles slightly wrong in what you want them to do. They may have stats to suit more than just the recommended roles the Assistant Manager/Scouts advise. For example one player I have is Jesse Lingard, they always suggest his best roles are ML as a Wide Playmaker(S) which I agree with but doesn't fit in with my formation, if I play him AML they say he should be Inside Forward or Winger, yet I find he is much more suited to an AP(S) role as one it suits me making him my main attacking creative force and also suits his stats perfectly. Then I have Torje AMR who they say should be a Winger, yet I play him as an Inside Forward as I like him to cut inside and make room for my attacking RB Berardi (who you also have) on a WB(A) role.
Looking at how you want to play I can already understand the want for Attacking, although it could be more worth playing Control (it's still attacking but not as attacking), maybe also try to use Flexible rather than Rigid or Fluid for mentality, your team will still primarily stick to their roles, but it gives the players a little more freedom than rigid to think for themselves, rather than fluid where I find they almost try to do what they want more than what their roles advise.
As you have your defenders on LD think they are literally just going to look to win the ball and clear it, so you may want to try CD(D) rather than LD. You've already noted that Byram is your best full back, but what do you want him to do exactly, do you want him to run up and down the wing? Then maybe a WB (A.) is much better than a CWB for example, the CWB will look to get up and down the wing, but he will also cut inside when he feels it is possible to do so (but you could still use this role if you feel he could really help cutting inside as well and not sticking to his position). If you want someone to cover for him though, I would not use a BWM, he will look to close down the ball in his own half on a defend duty no matter where it is, so say you have just attacked down the right and your RB whips in a cross from the byline and it is cleared to the opposite side? Your BWM midfielder will run to the left to make that tackle as his role suggests, but your RB is all the way up the pitch, all it would take is one switch of the ball and the oppositions LM would have an amazing amount of space to exploit...as a result, to cover for this a DM/Anchor or maybe even a HB would be a much better role for the CDM, as he will hold his position deep and cover those areas.
In CM you have a DLP (S) and a RPM (S) both these players are going to want to have the ball around the centre of the pitch and look to dictate play, as a result of the RPM constantly looking for the ball, I can see him ending up on top of your DLP a lot more as they are occupying similar areas but the RPM will move a lot more from his position than the DLP. Because of that I would personally try the DLP on maybe a defend duty so he holds deeper than the RPM (but this could hurt you going forward) so maybe try one of the midfielders on something different. Based on how you described him though wanting to play with the DM and help cover, I would personally use a DLP(D), basically the man you are looking to start your attacks from deep and help cover for your RB...I'll be honest the way you describe the other CM in how you want him to play "driving forward if the team is attacking or tracking back in defense" to me suggests you actually want him to play as a B2B or CM(S), basically offering you a bit of everything, a RPM is going to look to receive the ball and create stuff as a RPM. The AM spot, to me sounds like you want an AM/SS rather than a Treq, a Treq is going to be your major attacking creator, he won't do much defensively, but with the ball he's going to look to find space on the edge of the box and thread the ball through to create goals, not score them as much. A SS is going to look to be a major goal scoring threat, while an AM (A.) will look to do a bit of both...Sharp's role I'll be honest is one of the few I feel you have spot on, you want him to score goals so a Poacher will give you that (I had the same decision when I used Maynard), the next striker however is where it becomes tough. If you use him as a F9 then I think this will also combine with your choice of the player behind him, as a F9 he's going to try to come deep and get the ball and look to create (however he won't be scared to go for goal if a chance arrives, but when coming deep, you don't want him ending up on the AMC, if he is a Treq I'd imagine these two will get in each others way a lot as they will want to use the same space, if however he is AM(.A) or SS, I'd picture the F9 dropping and then this guy running beyond him meaning the F9 has two players to look to ahead, I personally would also have the F9 on the right to give him an extra option of the RB to pass to as well because it gives him more choices but that's just a personal choice. You could also try a DLF for this role or maybe even a CF on Support, there's a few options for this, but if you used a Treq, I'd probably use a more advanced role like AF or CF on attack just so they don't get in each others way.
I'm not saying what I have said is the perfect fit, but I'm just trying to picture the roles which suit what you've described, I just feel a couple of your choices could be slightly off to how you've described it in my head, I wouldn't add TI's until the side is fluid with the tactic or you really notice there is something you want the whole team to do more like Closing Down, Staying on feet or something like that. I personally at the moment have none, but change my mentality, I may add the odd PI during a game if I feel there is something one person isn't doing right in the game now I'm settled on my tactic. I also may add 1 or 2 TI's during a game.
Looking at how you want to play I can already understand the want for Attacking, although it could be more worth playing Control (it's still attacking but not as attacking), maybe also try to use Flexible rather than Rigid or Fluid for mentality, your team will still primarily stick to their roles, but it gives the players a little more freedom than rigid to think for themselves, rather than fluid where I find they almost try to do what they want more than what their roles advise.
As you have your defenders on LD think they are literally just going to look to win the ball and clear it, so you may want to try CD(D) rather than LD. You've already noted that Byram is your best full back, but what do you want him to do exactly, do you want him to run up and down the wing? Then maybe a WB (A.) is much better than a CWB for example, the CWB will look to get up and down the wing, but he will also cut inside when he feels it is possible to do so (but you could still use this role if you feel he could really help cutting inside as well and not sticking to his position). If you want someone to cover for him though, I would not use a BWM, he will look to close down the ball in his own half on a defend duty no matter where it is, so say you have just attacked down the right and your RB whips in a cross from the byline and it is cleared to the opposite side? Your BWM midfielder will run to the left to make that tackle as his role suggests, but your RB is all the way up the pitch, all it would take is one switch of the ball and the oppositions LM would have an amazing amount of space to exploit...as a result, to cover for this a DM/Anchor or maybe even a HB would be a much better role for the CDM, as he will hold his position deep and cover those areas.
In CM you have a DLP (S) and a RPM (S) both these players are going to want to have the ball around the centre of the pitch and look to dictate play, as a result of the RPM constantly looking for the ball, I can see him ending up on top of your DLP a lot more as they are occupying similar areas but the RPM will move a lot more from his position than the DLP. Because of that I would personally try the DLP on maybe a defend duty so he holds deeper than the RPM (but this could hurt you going forward) so maybe try one of the midfielders on something different. Based on how you described him though wanting to play with the DM and help cover, I would personally use a DLP(D), basically the man you are looking to start your attacks from deep and help cover for your RB...I'll be honest the way you describe the other CM in how you want him to play "driving forward if the team is attacking or tracking back in defense" to me suggests you actually want him to play as a B2B or CM(S), basically offering you a bit of everything, a RPM is going to look to receive the ball and create stuff as a RPM. The AM spot, to me sounds like you want an AM/SS rather than a Treq, a Treq is going to be your major attacking creator, he won't do much defensively, but with the ball he's going to look to find space on the edge of the box and thread the ball through to create goals, not score them as much. A SS is going to look to be a major goal scoring threat, while an AM (A.) will look to do a bit of both...Sharp's role I'll be honest is one of the few I feel you have spot on, you want him to score goals so a Poacher will give you that (I had the same decision when I used Maynard), the next striker however is where it becomes tough. If you use him as a F9 then I think this will also combine with your choice of the player behind him, as a F9 he's going to try to come deep and get the ball and look to create (however he won't be scared to go for goal if a chance arrives, but when coming deep, you don't want him ending up on the AMC, if he is a Treq I'd imagine these two will get in each others way a lot as they will want to use the same space, if however he is AM(.A) or SS, I'd picture the F9 dropping and then this guy running beyond him meaning the F9 has two players to look to ahead, I personally would also have the F9 on the right to give him an extra option of the RB to pass to as well because it gives him more choices but that's just a personal choice. You could also try a DLF for this role or maybe even a CF on Support, there's a few options for this, but if you used a Treq, I'd probably use a more advanced role like AF or CF on attack just so they don't get in each others way.
I'm not saying what I have said is the perfect fit, but I'm just trying to picture the roles which suit what you've described, I just feel a couple of your choices could be slightly off to how you've described it in my head, I wouldn't add TI's until the side is fluid with the tactic or you really notice there is something you want the whole team to do more like Closing Down, Staying on feet or something like that. I personally at the moment have none, but change my mentality, I may add the odd PI during a game if I feel there is something one person isn't doing right in the game now I'm settled on my tactic. I also may add 1 or 2 TI's during a game.
Thank you for all your advice! I found out from the first half of the first game that the attacking very structured approach will not work! In Fm the structured mentality seems to do things in another way than i was thinking. And the initial post was about Leeds controlling the game... so I maybe gone to far from was I wanted firstly. I begun to think that my first choice- control with fluid was the right choice. Anyway , the two mentalities and shapes I have to choose now are structured/control - flexible/fluid. Anything else seems to much for what I'm trying to do.
And since I'm playing both my FB as CWB I'll play my DM as HB. Anything else I don't know...
And since I'm playing both my FB as CWB I'll play my DM as HB. Anything else I don't know...
View attachment 219454
This produce the kind of football I like seeing.
I'm wondering how I can make this more defensively stable , so I could play this against the bigger teams without being trashed ?
Maybe the HB should be dropped back and play with 3 CD(D)? Or should I play the offside trap as a TI ?
Finally those are the roles for my CWB. Now they are doing what I want them to do.
This produce the kind of football I like seeing.
I'm wondering how I can make this more defensively stable , so I could play this against the bigger teams without being trashed ?
Maybe the HB should be dropped back and play with 3 CD(D)? Or should I play the offside trap as a TI ?
Finally those are the roles for my CWB. Now they are doing what I want them to do.
WJ
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Ha, no. There are two only. The halfback is a midfielder.Actually, there are two and a half!
So it would be better to play three at the back if I want to use these very attacking CWB ? Playing some friendlies it seemed safer.
How would you setup that tactic if you really wanted your fullbacks to be attack orientated?
How would you setup that tactic if you really wanted your fullbacks to be attack orientated?
WJ
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It seems safer because there's a reason teams use 3 or 4 defenders instead of 2. It's just risky otherwise and even watching a game on Key Highlights should show it to you.
Just set it up and see where you have issues?
Ok, then you can change a bit formation and TI-s...
For example, pull back your two WB-s to FB position, and turn off close down more TI... This formation will leave you exposed on wide and HB can not cover everyhing... Most of teams play formation with wingers your FB even if he is positioned ok, he will be overloaded with opposition WR/FB duo. Not to mention that better opposition have better wingers and they will not look only to run byline and cross, but they will also cut inside if there is space and shoot from there or pass trough your defence.
So, You need to become more defensively compact, to avoid space for this kind of impact of wingers and to prevent opposition from destroying you on wide.
If I was you, I would make one more formation for stronger opponents, pull back two WB to FB position, turn on close down less TI, I would put down Mark tighter TI, Play offside traps TI, and You could add also opposition instruction for his GK and CB-s not to be marked or closed down ever. This will give you better defensive shape. But you could also add takle harder TI, and opposition instruction to always mark his central players in midfield and attack, and you could also add opposition instruction to close down always his all of his midfield players, attackers and his FB-s... This will give you interesting combination of shape, agressivenes and some kind of controled pressing... Your aim is to force opposition to mistakes, solo actions and long balls forward which, mosto of the times, will be easy pick up for your defence. This will also force his CB-s to come in midfield trying to create extra man forward, and if they make mistake (and most of time, they will), you will have a lot of space to explot on counter... This concept is working 100% as it has been tested in three or four diferent leagues...
Conflictinbanno
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Why not use the same formation but move the two CWB back into the defense line and place them on an attack duty? See if that keeps the play you want but makes you more solid at the back, or you could use 3 CB's with the two CWB players?
View attachment 218739View attachment 218738
If you know what I can do to make this better , so I can get throw the first season in the first 6 teams please let me know... I can't try every stupidity I'm thinking about because I can't afford losing to many points...
I posted my results in my first 5 games.
Control/fluid
Thanks
If you know what I can do to make this better , so I can get throw the first season in the first 6 teams please let me know... I can't try every stupidity I'm thinking about because I can't afford losing to many points...
I posted my results in my first 5 games.
Control/fluid
Thanks
Changed mentality to standard and shape to flexibile - playing safer. First place but only half of september.
People will get bored of playing fm 2016 until I get into my fm 15 save and find that good tactic i'm trying to make.
People will get bored of playing fm 2016 until I get into my fm 15 save and find that good tactic i'm trying to make.
In the last game of the season... finally !!! We got promoted and won the championship!!! Last Game!!!View attachment 217636
So if it is a lesson to learn from this post it's to never give up!
So if it is a lesson to learn from this post it's to never give up!
View attachment 217634Standard/flexible push higher up/close down more/work ball into box/ sometimes get stuck in and one/maximum 2 player instructions for maximum 5 players in the team