And Antenucci just resumed full training...and it's already out for 4 days
 
Perhaps you could try something like this?
 
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Thanks but the tactic I mare is working, the problem is there will be no players to play in it if the injuries keep going like it dose. And only the best players get injured. Still, we are 6 place at the and of january 7 points behind the leader. Playing Mulhern from under 19 as a striker.
 
Just a question... if your AF/A does not score or is having a bad game, who else can contribute and how?
 
My main scorer is my df.( at least now, before Sharp getting injured he, the af was the main scorer. All other players i've tried in his position couldn't score). Another one who scores but not on a regular basis is the am.
Maybe I still have mistakes I cant see in the tactical setup but I still don't think is normal/ usual whatever to have all the 3 main strikers injured and the main am , all at the same time and all for long periods of time.
 
My main scorer is my df.( at least now, before Sharp getting injured he, the af was the main scorer. All other players i've tried in his position couldn't score). Another one who scores but not on a regular basis is the am.
That's not really answering my question. Did you have a plan when selecting the front 3 roles?
 
1. If af is to advanced and find himself without support because the other forward is to defensive I can make the following changes :
Df can became dlf with a support duty; if still af find himself isolated he can play as a dlf (a)
When I picked player roles I wanted to play Sharp/ Antenucci, one to score one tu support , af/dlf.
When Antenucci got injured I started to play doukara in his position, but this one was described as a better df. So in one game I played him df. And the role seemed at least in game better than the dlf. He was putting pressure on the opposition much more, forcing them to make mistakes, he was winning the ball back and even score a few. Also Sharp was starting to score in this combination, before injury.
What kind of plan? I was thinking about other formations but I decided to stick to this one for the time being.
 
For the am I wanted firstly to support the forwards and secondly to be a presence in the opposition box when needed .
I'm still experimenting with the trequartista and am (a) role.

Can you please give me an example on what's your plan when you chose your strikers roles?
 
Can you please give me an example on what's your plan when you chose your strikers roles?
There shouldn't be a plan just for striker roles. It should be a plan for your entire setup.

Example taken from here: http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/football-manager-2015-tactics/328095-starting-new-club.html

This is what I’ve gone with initially and I’ll explain the plan.

View attachment 873429

That plan here, is to sit back and counter. My defenders are slow, so that fits perfectly. I have an Anchor will shield the defence and Mokoena will almost always be around to help out too.

On the left, I want Petropoulis to use the talents I spotted with my second look at him. He has the Off the Ball to really exploit any space given to him - and remember - I’m counter attacking mostly, so there should be loads of space.

On the right, I have Oscar. He’ll drift infield, using his fantastic mental stats to pull the strings in an advanced position - ideal on the counter. Being a Playmaker, the players will seek him out a little more. Once he has it, he has a powerful Jong-Woo surging past on the Inside and Gruezo sliding past on the outside. Oscar should be in heaven.

Davidson in the middle has been given a generic CM/S. I don’t want him to be a playmaker as I don’t want attention off Oscar. I thought about a Box-to-Box, but I don’t want him to be too attacking, potentially getting into the AML’s space. Davidson can do a bit of everything and I’m going to expect that from him.

Up front, it’ll be up to Herceg to make the defenders’ lives **** with his pace and movement. He will run the channels, opening gaps for himself, Jong-Woo or Petropoulos. Especially on the counter, he will pull central defenders really wide (with the fullbacks theoretically upfield) and I have 2 players ready to exploit that.
 
The fact you're getting so many injuries probably isn't helping with the tactic as you need to keep changing players for certain positions.

In regards to that I would really keep an eye on your training schedule and players fitness for matches to get this many injuries. Do you have it on Very Heavy while in the season (I almost always move down to a normal amount during the season and only use very high in pre-season), also do you have any rest days, be it before or after the match? If I find fitness is a big issue I sometimes add both temporarily and then change it down to one rest day, personally the day after a match. Also within this, what fitness are your players before going into a game. I try to keep my players over 90% unless I am comfortable with subbing the player early into the second half if I have another good option on my bench who I don't want to start. I also tend to try to sub players when they get to 70% (another personal preference, unless I've used all my subs, but to help this, if I'm winning the game I may sometimes add the TI Take a breather).

What WJ is trying to explain with your vision of how the front 3 are working is to think how you want them to play. Don't just judge it by goals scored, look at the whole picture throughout the game. For example when I had a diamond I had a different approach like this.

AMC, my player had all the ingredients to create goals, he was a very good playmaker, but he didn't have terrible finishing, however I wanted him to be around the edge of the box with the ball, passing to the strikers to assist, or getting the ball out wide to my on rushing attacking full backs. For this reason I had him as an Advanced Playmaker. However in some games I used him as a Shadow Striker as he had enough for this too (it wasn't what I preferred but it was a good alternative if this style wasn't working, this change also affected one of my ST's)

ST's, I had 1 striker who was brilliant at finishing but not much else, immediately his stats looked like a poacher, so I decided to use him as the Poacher, seeing him as the player who would go for goal and be a major presence in the box at all times. My other striker however had a various amount of components that suited him, he could play as a TM, DLF, AF or F9. Most of the time I used DLF/S, I felt this way he would receive the ball a little deeper and recycle possession to the AMC/Full backs then make a late run into the area, or he might look to get the ball through to the Poacher who was always a presence, it was the best role that fitted how I saw the team click together. (As in the AMC post I said I sometimes changed him to a Shadow Striker, if I did this, then this player changed to a F9, mainly because I saw this ST dropping while the Shadow Striker would run past him, giving him various forward passes to play).

I'm not saying copy this, definitely don't, but look at the players you have and work out a way you feel they could play and pick the roles that best suit this idea in your head. It's the exact same advice WJ gave to me and it paid off, this team got promoted first time of asking, now in the Prem, I scrapped the diamond due to feeling firstly it would get over run by better teams and secondly down to transfers to get players who fitted the way I wanted to play as I prefer lone strikers.
 
Overal Workout is light. A day of rest before matches and one after. individual training on average. Players who are actually starting are always over 90% condition and match fitness.
Thank you very much for you advice. But I think I'll give up for good. Curently after no win in five consecutive games am standing 10 place with no realistic chance to promotion in my opinion. And this games witch are lost or mostly drawn , usualy one of my players scores against us... The God of FM is simply against me.
This is the worst save i had ... first time played with Leeds won the championship, second save attempt third place...and now...
 
It seems that i'm a very perseverent guy( read a little bit crazy). I'm gonna start again following WJ guide's on how to start at a new club. Putting players in the right roles, playing my way (attacking)...
 
I don't think i'll be able to let this drop until I get it right.
 
I hope what follows is a what you consider a plan for the tactic I made.

My best Leeds players in (my opinion) are: Byram,Bellusci, Cook, Mowatt, Adryan,Sharp.

- Byram can play full back, wingback and complete wing back. I think he can successfully play all of the three roles. Looking at his attributes I incline to the FB(A) and CWB(A), but I think he may be a better CWB then an WB do to his technique; first touch is not bad either for a full back at this level, his composure seems also good. His decision making is poor in my opinion, only at 10, so this makes me consider playing him as a FB(A). But this will not make properly use of his technique, first touch and composure which are very good for a player playing in his position in this league. So maybe I'll have an advantage over opposition by playing him as a CWB(A).

- Bellusci - due to his lacking in passing , first touch and composure the BPD is out of question. I have to choose from limited defender and central defender.Because I want to play an attacking style of play , which is supposed to be more aggressive, he should have good technique and composure which he doesn't. The other problem in my opinion is that he lacks concentration ( it's even more important , knowing that one of the other contenders for the first team central defender place , Bamba, severely lacks concentration and this may lead to conceding more than i want). So the limited defender seems to stay.

- For the other spot in central defense I have to choose from Bamba and Cooper. Bamba lacks positioning and concentration. I also believe that Bamba is a better LD(D) and Cooper is a better CD(D). So, i will either play Bamba/Bellusci as LD(D) or Cooper/Bellusci as CD(D). I don't want to use stopper/cover combination because i'll use a high block and i want better use of the offside trap.

-On the left side of defense I don't think I have a good enough player to start regularly, so I may look to loan someone. For now I have to choose from Berardi, Taylor and White. Taylor looks like he can become a good full back but doesn't seem quite ready for first team football.Berardi is a good full back, a bit injury prone, but he's not natural on the left, he is much better on the right where I already have Byram.

- In the midfield we have lots of central midfielders and no wingers. Any formation with wingers is out of question. Still, in the central area of the pitch we are the strongest : we have two dm's, four cm's and two am's so the diamond midfield stands up.

- In the dm position , both Austin and N'Goyi are described as BWM. They can also play DM. N'goyi is the more consistent one but Austin has better mental attributes which seems to be very important for the BWM role. As an anchorman N'Goyi is clearly better than Austin. If I choose to start with a DM or A role I should start N'Goyi but if I choose to play with a BWM Austin is my first choice. The BWM may be a good choice to cover for the right attacking full back , just because he lacks positional discipline.Due to poor passing of both midfielders, and less suitability for the other roles, I may want to play with a BWM who can greatly contribute in defense( at the expense of team shape of course).

- On the right side of the central midfield i have Cook. He will start most of the games. Has the potential to be a first team star player. My assistant believes him to be an AP, RPM, BBM but I rather play him as a DLP due to his competence in defense and better link up play with the BWM. The DLP will drop deeper, hold his position and offer cover for the BWM who will hurry to close down opponents. Also Byram , which is my attacking full back on the same side will have better cover provided by the BWM/DLP combination.

-On the left side I have to choose from Mowatt, Murphy and Bianchi. Mowatt has the best chance to become a good premier league player but the other two seems to be better developed than him at the moment. I'm inclined to play all my three more creative players like some sort of play makers ( I consider them to be the strongest part of my team and I want tha ball to go mostly to them). My assistant rates Mowatt and Bianchi as a RPM while Murphy is an AP. While Cook is pretty good in defense , Austin will close down opposition players and try to win the ball in the center of the pitch, as a RPM Mowatt will be my runer , driving forward if the team is attacking or tracking back in defense. I also have Bianchi and Murphy who can step up and perform as a RPM if Mowatt gets injured or is in bad form. So the RPM looks like a good choice.

- Behind the two strikers I will play Adryan over Sloth. He is natural in this position. Both players can play as T, AP or AM. But, Adryan, if injury free and in good form, can be a key player for my team. A trequartista may be more involved in goal scoring than an AP or an AM. So I'll play him as a T.

- Upfront I think we have three decent players for this level in Sharp, Antenucci and Doukara. My initial assessment is that Sharp and Antenucci are more ready for the first team than Doukara.I think that, played in a system that suits his abilities Sharp can be a natural goalscoarer. My assistant recommends playing him as an AF or poacher. Because I mainly want from him to score goals and I'll be judging his performances based on this I'll play him as a poacher.

- Choosing the next starting striker is harder. Antenucci is a more complete player while Doukara is a better defensive forward, a role that I personally enjoy having in my team. My assistant says I should play Antenucci as a F9, T or DF. I'm thinking of playing him as a F9, hoping that Adryan and Sharp can use the space created by him. And I believe he will link up with the midfield. I'm also considering DF(S) and DLF(A). I don't know until I see them playing.

- I forgot about my GK. Silvestri will start up, playing as a sweeper keeper mostly due to the attacking mentality i wish to implement and the use of a high block.

So my initial strategy looks like that( nothing I ever played or tested was like this one, never):View attachment 220352


Because I want to play offensive football I'll choose an attack mentality. It seems the easier and more logical choice for me at this moment. I don't care we are not currently the best team in the league, but we will be, this is the mentality i wish to implement at Leeds. Having a lot of specialised players, which i want to do their assigned duty I'll choose the very structured team shape to start with. This could change in a structured or even flexible shape if I'll change player roles.

I will start with no TI's because I want to see my team playing for the first time firstly but I'm already inclined to use:
- play out of defense - because I want to use my central defenders to their best of their abilities ( the reason they are LD) but I don't like bombing the ball forward and throwing possession to the opposition
- offside trap - i use a high block and in championship there are lots of fast strikers... maybe we can defend better using the offside trap
- close down more- already active for the aggressive mentality I'm using , but I will like to try and win the ball higher and faster , immediately after we lost it , forcing the opposition to mistake in their own half.

- My midfield setup: in the midfield my DLP is strong at positional discipline while the RPM and BWM are very weak ( which I would like to compensate by using the very structured team shape). All three of them have a good defensive contribution ( so maybe we will attack without conceding a lot). The DLP and RPM will contribute to attack while being a strong creative force in the team. Even if he's quite a lazy lad and not helping in defense the trequartista has other duties, like being a strong attacking and creative outlet. My strikers won't do to much defensively but their main job is to score goals. The poacher has a good positional discipline so my midfield will know where to search him for a deadly pass while the F9 has good creativity and brings a strong contribution in attack.

- My attacking mentality is supposed to use a high defensive line, a fast tempo, more expressiveness and the roles selected in the midfield ( play makers) should take care that the ball circulate mostly throw there - they will not be skipped, we won't play long balls due to the more direct style of play).

Good or bad this may be a plan! Probably that we will be trashed by the reserve team in the first game but at least we had an idea and a plan and it was completely ours!
 
Just a quick question, what's the best strategy in your opinion when taking over at a new club? I mean do you keep your tactical plan and vision( your best formation and your most knowledgeable style of play) or you just adapt to the players and team available? How do you plan and make transfers? Based on improving the current team shape or change it to fit your vision and desired style of play ?
Should you adapt to what you have or adapt what you have into your vision? It may take years until you can implement your own wishes/vision/style of play/formations if you adapt at the start to something completely different.
 
Just a quick question, what's the best strategy in your opinion when taking over at a new club? I mean do you keep your tactical plan and vision( your best formation and your most knowledgeable style of play) or you just adapt to the players and team available? How do you plan and make transfers? Based on improving the current team shape or change it to fit your vision and desired style of play ?
Should you adapt to what you have or adapt what you have into your vision? It may take years until you can implement your own wishes/vision/style of play/formations if you adapt at the start to something completely different.

It all depend on your preferance...

I personaly like to change and adopt. When i looking players in market, I look for best available in terms of quality/price, as I like to play with lesser teams. So, usualy, that leaves me with changing my formation to adopt different player atributes and qualities... It is just more interesting for me to play this way.

But, it does not metter if you prefere one or the other. You can be succsesfull with both strategies. First one is little bit harder at start, but it gets easier latter, secod is little easier at start, but constant changes need some effort from you...



Regarding your gameplan, did you consider at all to use 4-1-3-1-1 formation... As it seems to me that you have preferance for pressing, and this is more sutable formation for this style of play, as it covers much more space and it is more difficult to break down.

With 4-1-2-1-2 diamond you have problem that, regardles your structural apporach, rolles that you have chosen tend to lurk around field too much, and this will leave you vurnable at counter attack. Also, our gamplan tends to go rather to one side, so your lurking players will tend to overload this side, and it could be good, but it also could be very bad if you do not posses enough quality.

With one more central midfielder, you will get better pressing, more stability in midfield and overall better control of midfield. You may even tell one of your CM-s to run wide in order to achieve some balance in attack and gain some width.

Aslo, Treq on AMC position and pressing does not corelate well...Also, RPM, F9 and Treq will be trying to use same space.

Look it at this way... Put on paper, witout thinking what rolle would it be what position on field do you want each player to operate. Think how do you want to attack and how do you want to defend. Then, look at vurnable areas at your team from this peace of paper, and look where you are strongest. What you can change in order to counter these vurnabilites and what you can do to exploite your strongest areas. After this, choose 3-4 players that you want to play trough. Think how you can make THEM most effective, and then, complement them and their rolles with other players and their rolles, in the way that they will not eat up space or take away ball from your main players. They are supporting players. They need o work, not create.

This formation is basic diamond, but you can change position of certain players, it is not hughe problem. For example, if you want your BWM to cover for your Rb, then moving him closer to right side is not crime. If you want your DLP to cover middle, and be your main creator, then give him DLP-def rolle, and put im in center of midfield, if you want to gain width, move your AMC little to rigth to support RB, and your left striker more to the left to gain width in attack. But if you do any of these, know why you are doing and what you are trying to achieve with each movement of players, with each rolle. Look for clues why something is working, and why some things do not. Try to change and adopt, not necesseraly by changin rolles, or TI-s, but with PI-s and position change. Formation does not need to be symetric, but you need to know how and why you are changing formation, PI-s and TI-s.

I understand you want to play in one way, but you cant just put ALL players to their best rolles. If you want, for example, Cook to be your primary playmaker, then, he is your only player with PLY role, otherwise, you will get a lot of passes between Cook and other CM, regardles of who he is. Also, RPM is designed to be free rolle player that will always ask for ball and be in middle of everything. This will kill Your intention of playing trough Cook.

Also, read a little about rolles. Poacher will sit in line of defence waiting for trough balls and crosses. If you slow down play, which you will with all those playmaker roles, you will be constantly in problem of breaking trough opponent defensive block. You will deny space for Treq and F9, which will likely look for space on sides, far from goal, and you Poacher will be isolated.

Also, if you want to win ball higher upfield, BWM is better uttilized as CM, as he will press higher upfield allowing your other players to return in defensive formation. If you leave him too deep, he will leave his position, usually will not be able to reach player with ball and usually will be ineffective, and you will be exposed once again.

All I am saying, think about your team as one unit, that needs to play like one, look like one, and not 10 solist on field that all trying to make impact play.
 
Heavy metal didn't work for Roesler either, he has been sacked already! I'm not getting sacked but i'm not content with our football. Maybe i'll get it at some point or maybe i won't ... i'm a little tired of trying all sort of things with this team. My opinion is that the in game descriptions of mentality/ shape are very confusing. My 10 solist on field with the very structured team shouldn't be just that?! Every player focusing in his specific job?!

Anyway I tried the rigid and very rigid team shapes but it's like a broken engine for me who doesn't spin in a circle... maybe I'm a fan of more fluid teams?

How does Arsenal play? with a structured/very structured team shape ? For me it seems that they have those specialised players but a fluid team shape...
 
Very Structured will limit creative freedom for most of the team, except the various playmakers and complete roles. It'll ensure that players stick to their roles more often than in a Very Fluid setup.
 
Regarding your gameplan, did you consider at all to use 4-1-3-1-1 formation... As it seems to me that you have preferance for pressing, and this is more sutable formation for this style of play, as it covers much more space and it is more difficult to break down.

No, but I was thinking at this:View attachment 219937 this is control/fluid and player roles I really haven't tried them yet. The aim is to attack through the middle.

And this is the another variant defensive/fluid :View attachment 219936
 
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