4231 by Veez (Patch 13.2.2)

  • Thread starter Thread starter veez
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IMPORTANT: to anyone that tests this tactic, remember not to tweak AMCR and AMCL settings, because it will remove the default marking setting they have to mark opponent full backs, their marking should appear blank unless during a match.
 
set forward runs of AP to often so he shows up late in the area. he will bag quite a few goals
 
just to update a little my performing. at home my team plays great but away I have much problems.

and how is your poacher? thoes he score lot? mine is a bit weak. what attributes are you looking for him? my first are acc, pace, finishing
 
my hard drive died yesterday. lost everything :( i was just about to upload the latest version of the tactic when it all went wrong. got new hd, installed windows and installing fm now, will recreate the tactic again and post when i can
 
which tactic were you using?

poacher = finishing, off the ball, first touch, composure (primary) acc, pace, dribbling, flair, heading, anticipation, bravery (secondary)
 
ok. here are updates again. second season very seccesfull. Seria A, Super cup italian and italian cup. Semi final lost from real but I had 10 players again.

I changed one thing ant it looks grat for me. really great. and that is when I play away I put tacitc on control and fluid.

I am using 4-2-3-1 your tactic.

here are some screens again.

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and yes that game that I lost from Parma I haven't deployed that tactic for away yet.
 
Hi Veez - Sorry to hear about your PC crash, hope it works out.

I've been using your balanced control tactic for 11 seasons. It took a turn for the worse when the first set of ME updates came out. At that point, I really wanted to start using your new tactics but I'm not massively keen on playing with classic tactics, so I stuck with balanced control, which still works but is now not very pretty to watch.

I finally bit the bullet this season and started using your Classic 4231 and I'm finding it to be excellent at home but poor on the road. I'm also finding fitness and injuries to be a lot more of a problem, which I sense might be on account of the higher tempo.

I haven't used your 433 counter because I don't like to have 4 wingers sat on the bench when I'm using a 4231 whining about how they want more first time football.

I'm here to beg you to update your balanced 4231 :) I think it could be the ideal partner to your classic 4231, mainly as an away tactic but also because it gives something to swap to halfway through a match when you're 2 goals clear and want to give the team a breather rather than having them run around like nutters, especially when weather is bad.

Your balanced control tactic is very solid at the back. Attached are screenshot from my last season, where I used balanced control - overall, then home and away:

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With your classic 4231 - I've already conceded more at home this season in 8 matches than I did all last season yet I've got precisely the same defensive line-up but in fairness, I'm winning and scoring plenty, so not complaining, just trying to show that your balanced control tactic really is really strong defensively:

View attachment 300149

Your classic 4231 plays beautiful football. It looks much more dangerous going forward, passing is excellent and there's a lot more movement. With balanced control, it's not uncommon for there to be 40 chances on goal, mostly because attacking players get in to the final third, don't see any options and take long shots. I can't quite put my finger on what needs to change with your balanced 4231 - perhaps more width - perhaps more direct passing but it's a really solid tactic at the back but currently lacks something upfront. If you did find time to tweak the balanced control tactic, I think you'd be on to a winning combination!
 
Homerekka said:
Hi Veez - Sorry to hear about your PC crash, hope it works out.

I've been using your balanced control tactic for 11 seasons. It took a turn for the worse when the first set of ME updates came out. At that point, I really wanted to start using your new tactics but I'm not massively keen on playing with classic tactics, so I stuck with balanced control, which still works but is now not very pretty to watch.

I finally bit the bullet this season and started using your Classic 4231 and I'm finding it to be excellent at home but poor on the road. I'm also finding fitness and injuries to be a lot more of a problem, which I sense might be on account of the higher tempo.

I haven't used your 433 counter because I don't like to have 4 wingers sat on the bench when I'm using a 4231 whining about how they want more first time football.

I'm here to beg you to update your balanced 4231 :) I think it could be the ideal partner to your classic 4231, mainly as an away tactic but also because it gives something to swap to halfway through a match when you're 2 goals clear and want to give the team a breather rather than having them run around like nutters, especially when weather is bad.

Your balanced control tactic is very solid at the back. Attached are screenshot from my last season, where I used balanced control - overall, then home and away:

View attachment 300143View attachment 300142View attachment 300141

With your classic 4231 - I've already conceded more at home this season in 8 matches than I did all last season yet I've got precisely the same defensive line-up but in fairness, I'm winning and scoring plenty, so not complaining, just trying to show that your balanced control tactic really is really strong defensively:

View attachment 300149

Your classic 4231 plays beautiful football. It looks much more dangerous going forward, passing is excellent and there's a lot more movement. With balanced control, it's not uncommon for there to be 40 chances on goal, mostly because attacking players get in to the final third, don't see any options and take long shots. I can't quite put my finger on what needs to change with your balanced 4231 - perhaps more width - perhaps more direct passing but it's a really solid tactic at the back but currently lacks something upfront. If you did find time to tweak the balanced control tactic, I think you'd be on to a winning combination!
Click to expand...


thanks mate! very insightful information!

to be honest i havent really gone back to my older tactics since new patches came out. which i now see was a mistake! lol

i will definately start working on that! its actually a blessing of sorts, because after my HD meltown all my tactics went in the bin, and what i've been trying to work on since installing fm again yesterday hasnt really worked out. so i'll just download them from my own OP :P and see what i can do.

so from what i understood, the balanced control delivers but the football played is poor yes? the classic tactic works very well at home i know, that was my problem with it, never managed to pair it up with something that worked as well away from home.

i'll get working on this right away :)

thanks mate!
 
homerekka, with the balanced control, any specific positions u think were not up to par with the rest?
 
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and with the classic tactic, is only the defense to be improved or is there any other position underperforming?
 
veez said:
thanks mate! very insightful information!

to be honest i havent really gone back to my older tactics since new patches came out. which i now see was a mistake! lol

i will definately start working on that! its actually a blessing of sorts, because after my HD meltown all my tactics went in the bin, and what i've been trying to work on since installing fm again yesterday hasnt really worked out. so i'll just download them from my own OP :P and see what i can do.

so from what i understood, the balanced control delivers but the football played is poor yes? the classic tactic works very well at home i know, that was my problem with it, never managed to pair it up with something that worked as well away from home.

i'll get working on this right away :)

thanks mate!
Click to expand...

Balanced control seems poor in the final third. Here's an example of the frustrating situation I see to often:

View attachment 300259

Attackers just cluster in the middle of penalty box. There's no width to the tactic and so there's too few attacking options and players see no option but to shoot. That's my left back in the middle of the pitch taking a shot with 9 players between him and the goal. As you might imagine, the shots taken count rockets, making it look like we're attacking well but being unlucky when in fact they're playing penalty box pinball.

The tactic definitely needs more width. While it's difficult to get width with no wide players, your classic attacking 4231 shows that it's very possible and since the team settings aren't massively different between balanced control and classic attacking 4231, I can only think that what makes classic attacking so pretty and balanced control less so is balanced mentality rather than attacking mentaility. I'd be so tempted to try Fluid / Expressive / Control but there's just something about that combination that doesn't make sense - what do you think?

To me, the thrust behind your balanced control tactic is that it's cautious and relies upon through balls to the poacher and the AMCs making runs behind the defence. Having full backs set to automatic offers scalability, such that when you're playing weaker teams, they'll get forward more and add an extra dimension to attack but when you're up against stronger opposition they'll stay back, support the midfield and instead the counter attack dimension of your tactic comes in. Is this what you were aiming for with the tactic?

If so, the main weakness at present is that the poacher just doesn't get the supply he needs. This changed with the ME updates. Before those changes, he'd hang on the shoulder of the centre backs and a through ball from the AP would unlock the defence. It doesn't seem to work like that now. The team either tries to run at goal and hits a wall - as per the screenshot above - or plays out wide, which doesn't always work out well if the full backs aren't getting forward.

Which leads me to crossing. Your tactic has both full backs set to cross "often" and of course run from deep set to "often" by default. You've got crosses set to "mixed", aim to "centre" and cross from to "mixed". Most people will play a pacey, intelligent, agile poacher upfront and these usually aren't tall, strong players that will win balls in the air. You've set team instructions to "drill" to accomodate for this but I think you'd get better results by specifying cross aim "near" to compensate for the fact that full backs are usually less technically proficient at crossing than wingers and that poachers will rarely be scoring from headers.

The full backs are set to cross "mixed", which means they have the option to "cross from byline" but surely a full back should never be that far forward and when combined with "drill crosses" and "centre" wouldn't make sense.

I'd recommend full backs set to:

through balls = often
cross = sometimes
cross from = deep
cross aim = near

I sort of feel like full back passing style needs to move up a few notches also to unleash diagonal passes that the poacher can run on to but I don't feel too sure about this. What do you think? Also to be fair, while I've got the best right back and best left back in the game on my save they both have crossing of 12 so it may well be that the settings you have work just fine if you have the right type of player in that position.

I'm rambling on a bit too much now so I'll leave it here but to your questions: poacher supply isn't working. I can't remember the last time I saw Fierro latch on to a through ball from the AP and this should be the tactic's basic principle. Full backs need some tweaking (as above) Having both centre mids set to a defensive duty makes the tactic strong defensively but I wonder whether you might find more balance between attack and defence by setting a support duty and setting the left CM to roam often and maybe push his creativity up a bit. Full backs need some tweaks but I think you've done the right thing setting them to automatic and I love that you play them as WBs in a FB role - this works really well.

With classic attacking 4231 - it's a great situational tactic. Where I'm at with the game now, with a very strong squad and 11 seasons in, I just don't want to lose a game. I've lost 1 game for the last 3 seasons and it ****** me off because I just want to go one season without a league loss :) Your classic attacking is bound to get turned over every now and again, especially for top teams because opposition will counter, or the weather will be bad or all the players will be knackered. My comment about classic attack being leaky is more to do with the philosophy rather than any weakness with the tactic, so I think it's fine as it is, provided it's played as a home tactic against similar or worse opposition, but it needs an away / stronger opposition pairing in my view.
 
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i know exactly what you mean. in previous patches the poacher used the "run onto ball" method with gret success, it is my favourite TM supply and have tried to implement it in most of my tactics, but since the last patch it simply isnt working. and you ae right when you say that it is the main principle behind this tactic, 3 men feeding the poacher, especially the AP, and if that isnt working, the principle on which the tactic was created goes out the window.

ive been trying many different things today, but havent found something that im satisfied with. ive found that with this formation to be more dangeroud up front you sacrifice defensive solidity, and vice-versa. which is exactly what we have with both the balanced and the classic versions. in relation to an away tactic to use with the classic version, ive tried various things too, but have found no success, i feel the game is kind of biased towards counter attacking play having to be through the wings. another issue is the lack of cover for the wings to stop opposing attacking full-backs.

i will keep trying, but unfortunately i feel that this formation has limited success under the current patch
 
Made a few tweaks this evening. Gonna test it a bit more and might send you a copy if it works out but one thing I'd definitely recommend - try boosting the mentality of the Poacher. I've gone to 2 clicks below max and it's definitely making a difference
 
Hey veez, a simple question here. What kind of individual training do you give to your players? Great tactic btw, thank you very much
 
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