Arsenal Vs Liverpool

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Who Will Win?


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Have to say from a neutral viewpoint, this is why I miss the Arsenal of old. Players like Keown and Viera would never have allowed Arsenal to slip up so often and throw away the title the way they're doing it now. They would've pretty much got in their face, and told them to politely buck their ideas up, and play for guts and pride. I miss seeing that in Arsenal nowadays. All very well having the flair, but you need to counter that with leadership and strength. And its so obvious it's missing nowadays.

they were a brilliant blend of skill and steel, thats why they were so good; they certainly not replaced the latter, someong to buck them up and keep the concentration up, and avoid the constant individual errors
 
Walcott was poor aswell Arshavin should have came on ages before

and Arsene Bendtner on the wing? :SoO)
 
Walcott was poor aswell Arshavin should have came on ages before

and Arsene Bendtner on the wing? :SoO)

Massively frustrating that is. Completely illogical to put a 6'3 striker on the wing. Other than RVP, has absolutely nothing to aim at, especially as most of our midfielders don't bother getting into the box anyway.
 
Wait, why is all the failure Wenger's fault? From what I see he puts the players in positions to succeed - it is up to the players to take those opportunities. They deserve most of the blame for choking away leads and not turning up in big games. The season turned to **** for them after that 4-4 against Newcastle. Most of the time for lack of a better phrase Wenger turns **** to gold. He can't go out the pitch and play the game for them. The big names for Arsenal dissappear in the big games. If the players want to win things they need to have a good long hard look at themselves in the mirror. Sure as **** don't see why Barca or Real Madrid would want some of these big names. Who wants players who goes AWOL in pressure situations? Can't blame Wenger for not having faith - he sticks with players through thick and thin.

Eboue was hard done by though IMO.
 
Nope, because hes not SAF.

Oh don't be so stupid. The Kenny and Rooney incidents were two completely different things. Rooney saw the camera and deliberately swore into it; with Dalglish the camera was there looking for the reaction, there was no way KK directed it at the camera.

Don't be such a moron.


Wait, why is all the failure Wenger's fault? From what I see he puts the players in positions to succeed.

Bendtner at right wing, that's a real winner right there.
 
I think he's played almost non-stop for club and country for three years and is ******* exhausted. A player's head doesn't have to have been turned by another club just because he's lacking a little bit of form (and still managed to make several key passes forward, even if a couple were slightly overhit or whatever) and remember he was excellent against Blackpool.

No he hasnt, he played a few cameo roles for Spain from the bench, he is no way a spanish starter during the summer... That was his break.
 
its not different, its the same every year. its wengers policy for better or worse. All sides have had injury crises, they havent dealt with it as well as others. They werent forced to sell those players to balance the books. This is the route they have taken, and so far its not quite been good enough for the title. whether we applaud his approach is another matter entirely. Every other top side will build for next season too. Wenger has repeatedly said the money is there, and he has chosen not to spend it

Except Arsenal was missing their most important players for most of the season. Their three most important players far and away are Vermaelen, Cesc, and Van Persie. Vermaelen is their commanding CB, Cesc runs the midfield, Van Persie is their one good finisher. Vermaelen was out for the whole season...imagine where ManU would be if Vidic were out for the whole season? Van Persie is crucial to their plans because he's their one good finisher (which is why they need another one since he's so injury prone), and he was out for a long time. Cesc missed plenty too. And Djorou missed a lot of games, who is their other very good CB and important to their plans. It is true that other teams had injury crises but their most important players were there for most of the season (and let's not forget about all of the goalkeeper injuries Arsenal had this season). I think the equivalent would be ManU losing Vidic for all of the year and Nani for much of the year, and missing VDS for a while. If that had happened, they would have dropped a lot of points.

Anyway, these last two seasons Arsenal hasn't really got rid of their players and they're actually going out and spending big...they went out and shelled a bunch of money on two experienced CB's last season like everyone wanted them to (Squillacci didn't adjust to the Prem but that was kind of a surprise to everyone since he's got a very good reputation), they got a target-man striker (Chamakh) so they have a plan B, and not too long before they bought a very quality player and goal-scorer in Arshavin. Don't know why he's struggled recently but I bet he'll be good next season. They have a young squad that is only improving and since they're holding on to these players, they're going to get better and better. I don't think anyone foresaw them making a second place finish in the Prem this season, especially missing key players like Vermaelen, Djorou, and Van Persie for such a long time. They're only going to be better next season, there's no denying that, and if SAF retires this season after the big 19, I'd bet on Arsenal taking the title.

We need to sign a few leeders in the summer maybe?

Leaders are made, not signed. Arsenal, unfortunately, will have to wait a few years until they have better leaders. They still will win some trophies in the next few seasons because of their quality though.

and perhaps there in lies the problem. we arent talking about 20 millon every year, its the one big purchase that plugs the Gap.

But they did that this season, they did what everyone asked of them and shelled out on two CB's. One was a good signing, one will be better next season (Squi is a good player, once he settles in to the Prem he'll be fine). But they lost their best CB for the whole season and their second best was out for a while. That's pretty bad luck. Also, it's not like they can just throw around 20 million a year, since that would put them into debt and stunt the growth of some of their current crop of players. If it's not a good deal, Wenger won't do it, and that's what I admire about him. The trophies will come soon for sure and I think they'll be the team to beat in the Prem next season if Cesc and Van Persie can stay healthy.

Samba would have been my pick from january,

He would have been expensive and Arsene could have gotten the same player (Oguchi Onyewu) for free in January. He didn't because if a player is technically **** and can't pass the ball, he won't fit in to Arsenal's system. Arsenal has two commanding CB's, Vermaelen and Djorou, they don't need another. Although signing Onyewu on a free would not have been a bad idea considering that they were missing their two starting CB's for most of the season, and he is more or less the type of player they need (strong and imposing in the air).


And every time Wenger puts Bendtner on the wing I want to shoot someone, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
 
United lost Rooney for the majority of the first half of the season, Rio Ferdinand played only few games, Owen is a regular sick note who was our third choice striker, Owen Hargreaves has missed 3 seasons, our most important Winger Valencia missed till mid March, third choice CB Evans also missed so many games. At one point we were down to bare bones in defense. Brown is a regular sick note, O'Shea missed 2-3 months, Park missed 2 months, Scholes missed more than a month, Anderson when he was playing his best games missed 2 months, Fletcher has missed 6 weeks now.

We had injury problems but our players stepped up to the task. Thats the difference.
 
United lost Rooney for the majority of the first half of the season, Rio Ferdinand played only few games, Owen is a regular sick note who was our third choice striker, Owen Hargreaves has missed 3 seasons, our most important Winger Valencia missed till mid March, third choice CB Evans also missed so many games. At one point we were down to bare bones in defense. Brown is a regular sick note, O'Shea missed 2-3 months, Park missed 2 months, Scholes missed more than a month, Anderson when he was playing his best games missed 2 months, Fletcher has missed 6 weeks now.

We had injury problems but our players stepped up to the task. Thats the difference.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying ManU didn't have injury problems, I'm just saying that they didn't have to miss their most important players like Arsenal did (again, the equivalent would be missing Vidic for the whole season). Also, ManU is a different team than Arsenal and doesn't have to rely so heavily on a few key players. That's one reason they won the title and Arsenal didn't. I think Arsenal might take the title next year though if they stay relatively injury free. Vermaelen might not be the same player next yeaar though after missing a whole season.
 
Oh don't be so stupid. The Kenny and Rooney incidents were two completely different things. Rooney saw the camera and deliberately swore into it; with Dalglish the camera was there looking for the reaction, there was no way KK directed it at the camera.

Don't be such a moron.

He swore on TV.

Thousands of little kiddies heard it. Now i trust the FA will stick to their stupid rules and hit him with a ban or something.

Rooney is right, he isnt the first to swear on camera, nor the last.
 
He swore on TV.

Thousands of little kiddies heard it. Now i trust the FA will stick to their stupid rules and hit him with a ban or something.

Rooney is right, he isnt the first to swear on camera, nor the last.

He is the first to go right up to the camera and swear at it on purpose though (other than Drogba).
 
Samba is a natural leader and he wouldnt have been expensive he handed in a transfer request. the fact that that arsenal rely on key players is their not an excuse. They had young players for 6 years. enough of the excuses from them, time to cut out the mistakes

---------- Post added at 12:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 PM ----------

He is the first to go right up to the camera and swear at it on purpose though (other than Drogba).

the rule has nothing to d with the camera since that rule isn't new and only talks about use f language shows how pointless that rule is. KK derserves n punishment, but the FA have made a rod for their own back by moralising it

Drobga was done for his comments abut the ref, check the uefa ruling
 
Samba is a natural leader and he wouldnt have been expensive he handed in a transfer request. the fact that that arsenal rely on key players is their not an excuse. They had young players for 6 years. enough of the excuses from them, time to cut out the mistakes

The thing is though that I don't think you can just buy or bring in a leader like that. A leader has to be someone who has been at the club for a long time. ManU has tons because they've been able to hold on to their players. Also, you have to be a very good player to be a leader--I mean, who is going to listen to Samba if he's the one ******* up in the back the most? He's not technically good enough for Arsenal, and as I said before, they could have gotten Onyewu for free but they didn't (I think they should have, but maybe Arsene didn't want to because that would mean they'd have 5 CB's).

I'm not saying it's an excuse per se, obviously ManU deserved the title, I'm just saying that considering the players they lost this year, I think it was a good season. When they're healthy they're a very good team who plays good football and they should win a trophy next season. They were very close this year, got runners-up in two competitions. That's a very good season, IMO. They were second only to the biggest club in the country...what's wrong with that?
 
The thing is though that I don't think you can just buy or bring in a leader like that. A leader has to be someone who has been at the club for a long time. ManU has tons because they've been able to hold on to their players. Also, you have to be a very good player to be a leader--I mean, who is going to listen to Samba if he's the one ******* up in the back the most? He's not technically good enough for Arsenal, and as I said before, they could have gotten Onyewu for free but they didn't (I think they should have, but maybe Arsene didn't want to because that would mean they'd have 5 CB's).

That is not the way to look at it. Samba is a better leader than any Arsenal current players. Technically gifted has nothing to do with it. If you go by Xavi words, Puyol is the least technical player in Barca but he is a good leader. It is not like Sign Samba and make him a captain straight away, at least without arm band he will be the leader who commands respects and organizes defense well..
 
Sigh, how can you compare what Rooney did compared to Kenny. They are completely other ends of the spectrum. While Rooney ran up to the camera and shouted down it, KK was in a discussion with Wenger, where Wenger was being a complete ***, and to be honest, I for one, would have used stronger words towards Wenger. Also, I suspect that KK and Wenger were unaware of the presence of the TV camera that close to them, as you can see, neither look towards the camera, or acknowledge it is there.

All you United fans saying 'The FA have acted on Rooney, so they must act on KK', bollocks do they, the two incidents are incomparable imo. Last weekend, watching a game on sky, one of the players while coming to pick the ball up for a throw in said '****', it was quite audible on the telly, while I understand the word is 'rude', it wasn't really aimed at anyone, should he also have been banned for 2 games because Rooney was? No.

Some of you need to stop with your 'Oh the FA is against us' attitude, it's getting boring now.
 
Thats not true about Samba at all hes actually decent with the ball at his feet, sorry but thats thinkan arrogant thing to say about samba and you do him a big disservice, he commands and talks all the. They Keown at the back once, didnt do them any harm.

You dont need to be at a club a long time, look at Vidic. There isnt a leadership figure in the arsenal squad so he has to buy one in.
They lose players every season. RVP has never completed a full season. All the problems they have suffered are not unique,and not new its happens in some way every season, and when its season 6 and its still happening, you have a big problem.

Again you might not think theres nothing wrong, but plenty of arsenal fans do with the constant individual errors/ladership issues/injuries/attitude that costs them season after season
 
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Sigh, how can you compare what Rooney did compared to Kenny. They are completely other ends of the spectrum. While Rooney ran up to the camera and shouted down it, KK was in a discussion with Wenger, where Wenger was being a complete ***, and to be honest, I for one, would have used stronger words towards Wenger. Also, I suspect that KK and Wenger were unaware of the presence of the TV camera that close to them, as you can see, neither look towards the camera, or acknowledge it is there.

All you United fans saying 'The FA have acted on Rooney, so they must act on KK', bollocks do they, the two incidents are incomparable imo. Last weekend, watching a game on sky, one of the players while coming to pick the ball up for a throw in said '****', it was quite audible on the telly, while I understand the word is 'rude', it wasn't really aimed at anyone, should he also have been banned for 2 games because Rooney was? No.

Some of you need to stop with your 'Oh the FA is against us' attitude, it's getting boring now.

Don't forget the FA have turned a blind eye on whiskey nose's almost continual psychological manipulation of referees over the years.

FA against you - my **** ( to quote the poet ).

What a resilient performance from a threadbare squad. Could you imagine Woy getting an effort like that from the team if he were still in charge ( shudder ). Just shows what brilliant man-management can do. Thanks KK.
 
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I understand what your saying about Samba. But you can't (imo) sign a player, midway through a season, and expect him to instantly become a leading figure in the dressing room. A signing needs time to embed himself into not only the club, but also the area and also to the new players. Also, with Djourou and Koscielny having a really good partnership, and still Vermaelen to come back (whom is that leader imo), who do you drop?
 
Don't forget the FA have turned a blind eye on whiskey nose's almost continuous psychological manipulation of referees over the years.

FA against you - my **** ( to quote the poet ).

Some of you need to stop with your 'Oh the Fergie gets away with everything when we have seen United players are getting bans regularly and even Fergie. Stop this **** ffs. It is getting boring now.

Edited Dunc's post as a reply to yours..
 
I understand what your saying about Samba. But you can't (imo) sign a player, midway through a season, and expect him to instantly become a leading figure in the dressing room. A signing needs time to embed himself into not only the club, but also the area and also to the new players. Also, with Djourou and Koscielny having a really good partnership, and still Vermaelen to come back (whom is that leader imo), who do you drop?

Samba is an example, though i feel he could have stepped in. This is a weakness in command identified a long long time ago, and has not been dealt with
 
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