Champions League Final

[SillySosidge]

All you ppl think barca are going to walk it your quite wrong!!!


As much as i hate man u, barca have no defenders because they thought that they were going out!!!!!!


Rooney Ronaldo & Who ever SAF decides to play along side them will tear them apart!!!!!


3-0 to UNITED (That realley hurts)

 

[Luis Aragones Legacy]

Fair enough, but barça doesn't rely at all on arial ability, so I think it will be a lot of through balls. On the other side I disagree on one thing, if Spain has definitly proved something in the euros is that possession is key if well used, and the brains of barça are maybe not the ones of the spanish antional team, but they still have the two best, iniesta and xavi that can at any moment find a space where you don't think there is one.
Guardiola will definetly deepen the defensive line, it's a CL final for christ sake! But it is his first season as manager so will he have in mind that games need tweaks?
I may surprise people here but I think Messi will play center forward, so he can put a bit of panic in Man U defence and maybe leave enough time to henry, etoo or iniesta to find the so so little space they need.
And finally, baràa will NOT play direct unless they are already in the box because that simply doesn't go with barça's philosophy, and generally southern concept of beautiful football. They'll play a bit like spain I think, possession, possession, waiting for the killer pass and keep hold of the ball to control the scorer.
Besides that I pretty much agree with what you said, and like all CL finals, luck and details will in the end be what makes a team a winner, I'd like barça to win only if they play tiki-taka if they start doing weird things they can go to ****.
But I can't emphasize enough on two things, let iniesta and xavi play in the middle and you die. And the other thing is I CAN't WAIT FOR THAT FINAL. It's going to be a great showdown, favourites are ManU to me.

 

[SillySosidge]

Fair enough, but barça doesn't rely at all on arial ability, so I think it will be a lot of through balls. On the other side I disagree on one thing, if Spain has definitly proved something in the euros is that possession is key if well used, and the brains of barça are maybe not the ones of the spanish antional team, but they still have the two best, iniesta and xavi that can at any moment find a space where you don't think there is one.
Guardiola will definetly deepen the defensive line, it's a CL final for christ sake! But it is his first season as manager so will he have in mind that games need tweaks?
I may surprise people here but I think Messi will play center forward, so he can put a bit of panic in Man U defence and maybe leave enough time to henry, etoo or iniesta to find the so so little space they need.
And finally, baràa will NOT play direct unless they are already in the box because that simply doesn't go with barça's philosophy, and generally southern concept of beautiful football. They'll play a bit like spain I think, possession, possession, waiting for the killer pass and keep hold of the ball to control the scorer.
Besides that I pretty much agree with what you said, and like all CL finals, luck and details will in the end be what makes a team a winner, I'd like barça to win only if they play tiki-taka if they start doing weird things they can go to ****.
But I can't emphasize enough on two things, let iniesta and xavi play in the middle and you die. And the other thing is I CAN't WAIT FOR THAT FINAL. It's going to be a great showdown, favourites are ManU to me.
__________________

But Guardiola has already said that he will attack Man u! I haven't seen much of Barca this season but have heard there results and are on for the treble.

Still believe that The Spanish League is second rate to the EPL

 

[Luis Aragones Legacy]

(I think people don't udnerstand that I defend my team beacuse we're having a real bad run and at the same time completeley agree that EPL is superior)
No matter how superior is EPL in general, we're talking about a 90 minutes game with arguably 5 of the ebst players in the world on the pitch, this ain't an EPL vs Liga game, it's Man U against Barça. And of course barça will attack, but will atatck through tiki-taka and attacking doesn't mean he's going to do as usual and leave only two behin,d, it will be a more ''conservative'' barça with only three defending and Toure a bit upfront and six attacking.

 

[Zebedee]

(I think people don't udnerstand that I defend my team beacuse we're having a real bad run and at the same time completeley agree that EPL is superior)
No matter how superior is EPL in general, we're talking about a 90 minutes game with arguably 5 of the ebst players in the world on the pitch, this ain't an EPL vs Liga game, it's Man U against Barça. And of course barça will attack, but will atatck through tiki-taka and attacking doesn't mean he's going to do as usual and leave only two behin,d, it will be a more ''conservative'' barça with only three defending and Toure a bit upfront and six attacking.

In some ways it is an EPL team vs a Liga team. The main difference from the 'olden' days is that English teams now have equal skill levels as well as the ability to keep up the tempo they require for longer. English teams can now play a 'continental' style while maintaining the ability to counterattack at the speed common in the Premier League with the skill of the top world talent. Liverpool's success in Europe has been built on this - just as an example, the two Real Madrid games - the first was a classic continental style away game based on sound defence and counterattacking, the second game was a classic Premier League style which tore Real Madrid to shreds.

That's what Barca are facing - a top Premiership team which can play effectively on the break but which can also overwhelm a defence. Pretty much the same Barca team has lost to two English clubs in the past two seasons and should have gone out to Chelsea (and comfortably been beaten too).

By not giving any aerial threat (and I agree that Barca play to their philosophy - much as Wenger does albeit with a more realistic approach for scoring against Premier League teams) Barca are limiting themselves to a threat which has been comfortably nullified by three English clubs, one of whom they face in the final. By not going for direct balls into the channels, they will never stretch Manchester United outwide and so will not be able to exploit the main weakness in how they play but will conversely leave themselves totally open to Manchester United's main threat.

A wiser, more experienced manager at Barca would be pragmatic about the style of play - Barca have shown already this season that they can't break down a decent Premier league defence by playing through the middle. They've shown it over the past three seasons - what's going to be different this time round? Nothing, so the change has to come from Barcelona.

I'm sure the formation will be 'more' defensive, but it won't be anywhere near defensive enough. Barcelona had ludicrous possession statistics over the two legs versus Chelsea, and still could have shipped six or seven goals (clear chances) while creating only one decent chance (Bojan in the first leg) and having only one shot on target (the goal) in the entire second leg. Great goal, but if you're relying on wonder goals to win a game, then there's something seriously wrong with your tactics. Manchester United will be far more ruthless than Chelsea - Tevez, Rooney and Ronaldo are exceptional on the break and unless Barca can properly pin them back, they will slaughter that makeshift defensive line which will be short on pace let alone genuine defensive ability.

Totally understand what you mean by saying 'Barca don't...', but if I were their manager I'd be looking to how Manchester United have been tamed this season. Only one team has done it and they played the way I suggested above. If Barca are capable of doing the same, they will win. That they can't means that I think they will lose providing there aren't any moments of idiocy (such as Essien's attempted clearance) by the Manchester United defence.

 

[SaintSinner]

definately barcelona.

 

[noobito]

I dont see Barca as a big problem for Man U.Yes Barca have some amazing attacking options but Man U have a defence that can cope with pretty much anything any team can throw at them on their day and a champions league final you can put money on them being on top of their game.

Man U proved against Arsenal what they can do to a lack luster defence and Barca have just that in this game.Whereas Barca proved just how quiet they can be kept by a decent defence and Man U have a stronger defence than Chelsea not to mention a much more leathal threat infront of goal than Chelsea had which doesnt look too good for Barca considering how much they struggled with Chelsea.

Both are strong in attack and midfield but in defence Barca are weak and against Man U thats the one place you really dont want to be weak because they will create chances and if your defence cant cope with it your in for a long night.

 

[SaintSinner]

barecelona have got enough talent to defeat man utd.

 

[Muj]

People keep talking about how good barca are at passing and keeping the ball and pace, errrr...have u forgotten, its man utd they are playing, we've already shown what we can do to teams who claim to play beautiful football and walk the ball in, this is man utd, the perfectly balanced team back to front. Barca just wont b able to cope because of their calamity defending. Great teams' foundations are built from the back, not from the front. Nevertheless, it won't b easy, it should be a cracking game. Anderson to score his first in Rome, you heard it here first.

 

[thisisoverlord]

Bacelona Vs Man Utd

I've read nearly all the posts on here and they've either been polemical or just plain stupid.

Firstly neither team will have their "best squad" both both teams have an amazing depth across the entire club. Barcelona can bring in Caceres who is a very good player in his own right, YaYa can play in Defence too, Slyvinho can certainly play 45 minutes at the top level, Kieta can deal with DM well. Man Utd have a whole slew of good youth players in Jonny Evans, Raphael and Anderson. So to argue that either team will some how not be able to field a strong side is a tad erroneous. Yes if Ferdiand isn't fit and if John O'Shea (probably) is playing against either Henry or Messi Man Utd will be weakened at the back and like wise for Barcelona without Marquez/Milito/Alves.

Both Josep and Alex have depth and a wide choice to choose from so get over the injuries and suspensions.

Both teams have great form as of late and both have their weaknesses. Yesterday Arsenal showed that a free passing team can hold an excellent Man Utd team to a draw and had they of had a Messi, Eto or Henry playing for them they may well of routed a Man Utd that couldn't get their game into flow because they had little possession. All that was missing was the finishing.

Barcelona are yet to play this weekend but were held to a 3-3 draw against "The Yellow Submarine" last weekend which forestalled till today the title celebrations. The media and self serving financial interests that continue to disseminate the idea that the EPL is the "best" league in the world have convinced most people in the UK who don't have access to watching in depth league matches in the Brasiliao, Germany or Spain. This belief is however... wrong.

Money does not equate to better quality in football... Real Madrid is a prime example of this. Brazil is the biggest exporter of footballers in the world and in fact they have a cap on players now so that they have to be 18 before they can leave Brazil. The point is the EPL is not the best league in the world, the reality is leagues in Brazil still produce better home grown players and have a great league without the money... could we say the same about the English Leagues without the kind of money we now have ? In edition Brazilian teams have won more World Club cups than any other nation, and if we are to believe the Man Utd propaganda that the World Club Cup = Best Club in the World then on measure over the past decade Brazilian teams have been "Champions of the world" more often than anyone else.

The Bundesliga is also just as good as the Premiership indeed many of the clubs in Germany now get the kind of Money that is being bandied around here, have better stadiums/facilities and have top players like Diego, Grafite, Toni, Ribery, Lahm, Zaccardo, Podolski, Dzeko, Boularouz, Gomes, Demba Ba (you get the point) before long they'll be up there contending on the continental stage, though Wolfsburg are losing their manager at the end of this season and so I predict they'll bow out of the champs league early.

In edition many people talk about the different styles of play employed In England, people talk about pace and counter attack and the level that English teams have in this regard and how this is somehow superior to the South American Tiki - Taka style of play, One has to remember with this that both styles have their benefits and most modern teams use a combination of the two, to argue that ex 100 metre runner Henry has no 'pace' would be a bit silly, Barcelona can and do play high tempo football. As a side note if you go and watch a Swedish or Norwegian League game you'll see what a pacey counter attacking game really is. Also if the EPL style is so good then why does the English team totally fail in internationals they nearly all play in England so whats the excuse there ?

So what does this mean for the Champions league final ?

Well it means that we shouldn't go into it thinking that English teams are somehow just going to walk over everyone else and indeed it's only because of the combination of "Big Money" and good managers that they've been able to have such good runs in the Champions league (Remember the managers came because of the money, do you really think Alex Ferguson would have the same success running Sutton Utd ?).

With regards to the match itself there are three key areas.

Wing Play:

Messi and Henry are great on the wing and support their wingbacks when the need arises.

The weakness here for Man Utd is John O'Shea and Evra aren't up to task and Ronaldo rarely tracks back. Rooney however will.

Barcelona will have severe difficulty in getting any attacking plays form their own makeshift wing backs which might cut the supply of balls to the wing forwards... however Iniesta and Xavi are usually the guys who pass to feet so no great loss there but defiantly a loss in pressure, crosses and free kick taking (Alves).

If Ronaldo and Rooney play well and can get service from midfield and the wing backs then Barcelona will have big problems. on the other hand the threat of Barcelona's counter attacks may pen in Man Utd's own wing play.

The Central Defence:

Expect both Central defences to be quite solid, with Man Utd the simple facts that a) Ferdinand and Vidic will not be able to control all 5 Barcalona attacking players and all of them are lethal with time and space on the ball. O'shea and Evra will also have problems as mentioned above b) Messi's technical skill will mean that Vidic may find himself picking up some cards.

With Barcelona the issue will be with how their defence will deal with Rooney/Ronaldo/Tevez and likewise if these guys get in round the wing backs then it could be all over very quickly, and this is likely if Man Utd have long spells of possession and can pick out good long passes to the width.

The Midfield:

Depends on who Alex plays there but basically they need to be able to check Iniesta and Xavi from supplying the magic... considering Iniesta is probably the best player in the world with perhaps the exception of Keirrison and Messi this will be difficult but Scholes with his physical presence could be up for the challenge, Anderson and Carrick will not be able to stop these two ! this is perhaps Man Utd's Achilles heel I expect Ferdinand to push forward and cut off the danger as well. when people talk of Barca it's always about Eto, Messi and and Henry but really the linchpins of the whole operation are Ineista and Xavi. This is proved in the Chelsea matches where the physical game played by Lampard, Terry, Essien etc and the close pressing when not having possession really killed the game, because Iniesta and Xavi were not given the time and comfort to build up play. The problem is Man Utd don't really have the players who can do that.

Conclusion:

Man Utd's best chance to win the game is to control possession, press hard without the ball, and look to counter down the wings and to employ Ronaldo's tendency to go down alongside Tevez/Rooney's brilliant runs and shots, if Ronaldo can get enough free kicks out of the makeshift Barca Defence then it might just take it's toll.

Barcelona's best chances are to pressure the wing backs as they will crack and to control midfield which they are capable of doing againsta less physical United central midfield. If Barcelona's attacking 5 are allowed to play and are playing at their best they can and would outplay Man Utd.

Thats my 47 pence on the issue (6)

 

[19-11-08]

I've read nearly all the posts on here and they've either been polemical or just plain stupid.

Firstly neither team will have their "best squad" both both teams have an amazing depth across the entire club. Barcelona can bring in Caceres who is a very good player in his own right, YaYa can play in Defence too, Slyvinho can certainly play 45 minutes at the top level, Kieta can deal with DM well. Man Utd have a whole slew of good youth players in Jonny Evans, Raphael and Anderson. So to argue that either team will some how not be able to field a strong side is a tad erroneous. Yes if Ferdiand isn't fit and if John O'Shea (probably) is playing against either Henry or Messi Man Utd will be weakened at the back and like wise for Barcelona without Marquez/Milito/Alves.

Both Josep and Alex have depth and a wide choice to choose from so get over the injuries and suspensions.

Both teams have great form as of late and both have their weaknesses. Yesterday Arsenal showed that a free passing team can hold an excellent Man Utd team to a draw and had they of had a Messi, Eto or Henry playing for them they may well of routed a Man Utd that couldn't get their game into flow because they had little possession. All that was missing was the finishing.

Barcelona are yet to play this weekend but were held to a 3-3 draw against "The Yellow Submarine" last weekend which forestalled till today the title celebrations. The media and self serving financial interests that continue to disseminate the idea that the EPL is the "best" league in the world have convinced most people in the UK who don't have access to watching in depth league matches in the Brasiliao, Germany or Spain. This belief is however... wrong.

Money does not equate to better quality in football... Real Madrid is a prime example of this. Brazil is the biggest exporter of footballers in the world and in fact they have a cap on players now so that they have to be 18 before they can leave Brazil. The point is the EPL is not the best league in the world, the reality is leagues in Brazil still produce better home grown players and have a great league without the money... could we say the same about the English Leagues without the kind of money we now have ? In edition Brazilian teams have won more World Club cups than any other nation, and if we are to believe the Man Utd propaganda that the World Club Cup = Best Club in the World then on measure over the past decade Brazilian teams have been "Champions of the world" more often than anyone else.

The Bundesliga is also just as good as the Premiership indeed many of the clubs in Germany now get the kind of Money that is being bandied around here, have better stadiums/facilities and have top players like Diego, Grafite, Toni, Ribery, Lahm, Zaccardo, Podolski, Dzeko, Boularouz, Gomes, Demba Ba (you get the point) before long they'll be up there contending on the continental stage, though Wolfsburg are losing their manager at the end of this season and so I predict they'll bow out of the champs league early.

In edition many people talk about the different styles of play employed In England, people talk about pace and counter attack and the level that English teams have in this regard and how this is somehow superior to the South American Tiki - Taka style of play, One has to remember with this that both styles have their benefits and most modern teams use a combination of the two, to argue that ex 100 metre runner Henry has no 'pace' would be a bit silly, Barcelona can and do play high tempo football. As a side note if you go and watch a Swedish or Norwegian League game you'll see what a pacey counter attacking game really is. Also if the EPL style is so good then why does the English team totally fail in internationals they nearly all play in England so whats the excuse there ?

So what does this mean for the Champions league final ?

Well it means that we shouldn't go into it thinking that English teams are somehow just going to walk over everyone else and indeed it's only because of the combination of "Big Money" and good managers that they've been able to have such good runs in the Champions league (Remember the managers came because of the money, do you really think Alex Ferguson would have the same success running Sutton Utd ?).

With regards to the match itself there are three key areas.

Wing Play:

Messi and Henry are great on the wing and support their wingbacks when the need arises.

The weakness here for Man Utd is John O'Shea and Evra aren't up to task and Ronaldo rarely tracks back. Rooney however will.

Barcelona will have severe difficulty in getting any attacking plays form their own makeshift wing backs which might cut the supply of balls to the wing forwards... however Iniesta and Xavi are usually the guys who pass to feet so no great loss there but defiantly a loss in pressure, crosses and free kick taking (Alves).

If Ronaldo and Rooney play well and can get service from midfield and the wing backs then Barcelona will have big problems. on the other hand the threat of Barcelona's counter attacks may pen in Man Utd's own wing play.

The Central Defence:

Expect both Central defences to be quite solid, with Man Utd the simple facts that a) Ferdinand and Vidic will not be able to control all 5 Barcalona attacking players and all of them are lethal with time and space on the ball. O'shea and Evra will also have problems as mentioned above b) Messi's technical skill will mean that Vidic may find himself picking up some cards.

With Barcelona the issue will be with how their defence will deal with Rooney/Ronaldo/Tevez and likewise if these guys get in round the wing backs then it could be all over very quickly, and this is likely if Man Utd have long spells of possession and can pick out good long passes to the width.

The Midfield:

Depends on who Alex plays there but basically they need to be able to check Iniesta and Xavi from supplying the magic... considering Iniesta is probably the best player in the world with perhaps the exception of Keirrison and Messi this will be difficult but Scholes with his physical presence could be up for the challenge, Anderson and Carrick will not be able to stop these two ! this is perhaps Man Utd's Achilles heel I expect Ferdinand to push forward and cut off the danger as well. when people talk of Barca it's always about Eto, Messi and and Henry but really the linchpins of the whole operation are Ineista and Xavi. This is proved in the Chelsea matches where the physical game played by Lampard, Terry, Essien etc and the close pressing when not having possession really killed the game, because Iniesta and Xavi were not given the time and comfort to build up play. The problem is Man Utd don't really have the players who can do that.

Conclusion:

Man Utd's best chance to win the game is to control possession, press hard without the ball, and look to counter down the wings and to employ Ronaldo's tendency to go down alongside Tevez/Rooney's brilliant runs and shots, if Ronaldo can get enough free kicks out of the makeshift Barca Defence then it might just take it's toll.

Barcelona's best chances are to pressure the wing backs as they will crack and to control midfield which they are capable of doing againsta less physical United central midfield. If Barcelona's attacking 5 are allowed to play and are playing at their best they can and would outplay Man Utd.

Thats my 47 pence on the issue (6)

**** me that was a long post.

i got about a third of the way through and gave up.

you can't just say that the assumtion that the epl is best is wrong as it is impossible to prove and just people's opinion but in my opinion epl is the best as our recent champions league record is the best and arsenal, the worst of the top four, could easily beat most of the best european teams.

arsenal held us to a draw. we held them to a draw, we only needed a point so soaked up pressure and held out for the draw. if we had gone all out we probably would have won but we didn't wan't to risk losing. also we would not have been routed if they had messi, henry and eto'o you ******.

are you really trying to argue that the brazilian league is better that the epl. the reality is football is not about bringing through great youth players. just because in your opinion a league is more exciting does not make it better as 22 **** players plus 2 **** managers and **** tactics equals shitloads of mistakes and goals.

man united propaganda. are you on drugs. seeing as the asian, south american, african, north amercan leagues are wank means if you win the european cup you can probably claim to be the best club in the world.

in my opinion your post is one of the most retarded i've ever read.

 

[thisisoverlord]

**** me that was a long post.

i got about a third of the way through and gave up.

you can't just say that the assumption that the epl is best is wrong as it is impossible to prove and just people's opinion but in my opinion epl is the best as our recent champions league record is the best and arsenal, the worst of the top four, could easily beat most of the best european teams.

arsenal held us to a draw. we held them to a draw, we only needed a point so soaked up pressure and held out for the draw. if we had gone all out we probably would have won but we didn't wan't to risk losing. also we would not have been routed if they had messi, henry and eto'o you ******.

are you really trying to argue that the brazilian league is better that the epl. the reality is football is not about bringing through great youth players. just because in your opinion a league is more exciting does not make it better as 22 **** players plus 2 **** managers and **** tactics equals shitloads of mistakes and goals.

man united propaganda. are you on drugs. seeing as the asian, south american, african, north amercan leagues are wank means if you win the european cup you can probably claim to be the best club in the world. {Man Utd claim they are Champions of the World based on their winning of the World Club Cup not the ECL Cup, please read more carefully}

in my opinion your post is one of the most retarded i've ever read.

Well like I said more Brazilian teams have won the World Club Cup, read into that what you will.

Do you really believe Alex said to his players before the Arsenal match play deep and soak up the pressure all we need is a draw ? Alex isn't a great manager because he holds out for draws, and you could see that every player in that Man Utd team wanted to win that game with Arsenal. No you were held fairly by a team that just played a bit better on the day, had they of had an ability in finishing in the final third you may well of lost the game.

I never said that the assumption that the "EPL" is the best is wrong, what I said is that if you actually watch football or are involved in the sport as a professional then you would realise that actually the EPL is just one in a whole set of Leagues that I feel are just as good but usually in different ways, And in all fairness the "EPL" is only at the level it is because of Foreign Players so how far one can argue that it's great because its English and English football is better im not sure. Indeed It's not even just about the European or South American leagues the Mexican League is the 5th biggest league in terms of finances and infrastructure and rightly deserve a mention, they play some amazing football over there. I recently watched a Copa Libertadores game between Palmeiras (BRA) and Colo - Colo (CHI) which In my opinion was better than most of the games I've seen in the Champions League this season a 90 minute, 22 Yard goal from Claiton Xavier clinched the game at 1-0 and sent Palmieras through to the group stages, all Colo - Colo needed was a draw to get through and knock Palmeiras out but they didn't hold back and played well, and the 1 - 0 scoreline is a credit to both defences !.

I have to ask though how is it that an England team with all it's players raised in the EPL have the inability to preform against so called "inferior" styles of play on the world stage.

Finally personal insults just invalidate your own a opinion and it looks as if your response is based more on emotion than sense... best to stick to arguing points of reason to be fair.

Thanks for the feedback though.

PS. Read the whole article before you reply as a lot of what you said makes no sense in the context and I talk about a lot more than just the Brazilian league. Go watch some football from around the world and make up your own mind.

 

[19-11-08]

I've read nearly all the posts on here and they've either been polemical or just plain stupid.

Barcelona are yet to play this weekend but were held to a 3-3 draw against "The Yellow Submarine" last weekend which forestalled till today the title celebrations. The media and self serving financial interests that continue to disseminate the idea that the EPL is the "best" league in the world have convinced most people in the UK who don't have access to watching in depth league matches in the Brasiliao, Germany or Spain. This belief is however... wrong.

Well like I said more Brazilian teams have won the World Club Cup, read into that what you will.

Do you really believe Alex said to his players before the Arsenal match play deep and soak up the pressure all we need is a draw ? Alex isn't a great manager because he holds out for draws, and you could see that every player in that Man Utd team wanted to win that game with Arsenal. No you were held fairly by a team that just played a bit better on the day, had they of had an ability in finishing in the final third you may well of lost the game.

I never said that the assumption that the "EPL" is the best is wrong, what I said is that if you actually watch football or are involved in the sport as a professional then you would realise that actually the EPL is just one in a whole set of Leagues that I feel are just as good but usually in different ways, And in all fairness the "EPL" is only at the level it is because of Foreign Players so how far one can argue that it's great because its English and English football is better im not sure. Indeed It's not even just about the European or South American leagues the Mexican League is the 5th biggest league in terms of finances and infrastructure and rightly deserve a mention, they play some amazing football over there. I recently watched a Copa Libertadores game between Palmeiras (BRA) and Colo - Colo (CHI) which In my opinion was better than most of the games I've seen in the Champions League this season a 90 minute, 22 Yard goal from Claiton Xavier clinched the game at 1-0 and sent Palmieras through to the group stages, all Colo - Colo needed was a draw to get through and knock Palmeiras out but they didn't hold back and played well, and the 1 - 0 scoreline is a credit to both defences !.

I have to ask though how is it that an England team with all it's players raised in the EPL have the inability to preform against so called "inferior" styles of play on the world stage.

Finally personal insults just invalidate your own a opinion and it looks as if your response is based more on emotion than sense... best to stick to arguing points of reason to be fair.

Thanks for the feedback though.

PS. Read the whole article before you reply as a lot of what you said makes no sense in the context and I talk about a lot more than just the Brazilian league. Go watch some football from around the world and make up your own mind.

how in god's name does saying "The media and self serving financial interests that continue to disseminate the idea that the EPL is the "best" league in the world have convinced most people in the UK who don't have access to watching in depth league matches in the Brasiliao, Germany or Spain. This belief is however... wrong." notequate to you saying the assumption the epl is the best is wrong.

i don't think they went out for a draw but as the game progressed they settled for that.

face it mate epl is blatantly the best. producing great players, playing beautiful football, exciting football means nothing if one of the best teams in the leagues your mentioning played a top four team they would get owned. no one is saying that the epl is the best because of the english players, or the english style is better. just because the english national team is **** and the epl is full of foreigners does not mean the epl is not the best. the brazilian national team is great, the league is ****.

got round to reading the rest of your post. i think your underestimating evra by saying he won;t be able to cope. scholes has no physical presence and would probably get a red for continuious fouling if we gave scholes the job of dealing with iniesta and xavi. vidic and ferdinand can deal with anything but it will be hard. keirrison is nowhere near being the best in the world right now.

 

[thisisoverlord]

how in god's name does saying "The media and self serving financial interests that continue to disseminate the idea that the EPL is the "best" league in the world have convinced most people in the UK who don't have access to watching in depth league matches in the Brasiliao, Germany or Spain. This belief is however... wrong." notequate to you saying the assumption the epl is the best is wrong.

i don't think they went out for a draw but as the game progressed they settled for that.

face it mate epl is blatantly the best. producing great players, playing beautiful football, exciting football means nothing if one of the best teams in the leagues your mentioning played a top four team they would get owned. no one is saying that the epl is the best because of the english players, or the english style is better. just because the english national team is **** and the epl is full of foreigners does not mean the epl is not the best. the brazilian national team is great, the league is ****.

Because what I'm talking about is the media spin as I said, if you take the media spin away the EPL is just as good as other leagues but it is not the best league in the way in which Sky would have you believe. As I said before its one of the best. But it is not the best League in the world, there isn't a "best league" in the sense your thinking of because people have different tastes.

"exciting football means nothing if one of the best teams in the leagues your mentioning played a top four team they would get owned"

But it's just a fact that Brazilian teams regularly beat European teams when they play them in competitions, Sao Paolo beat Liverpool in 2005 (World Club Cup) in edition Internacional beat Barcelona in 2006 (World Club Cup). So I'm afraid your wrong there. Great matches as well! I think you seem to be under the impression that south American football is all about attack, and you'd be mistaken Brazilian teams have good defences and amazing goal keepers too, Julio Cesar is just one example.

"no one is saying that the epl is the best because of the english players, or the english style is better"

So then what else distinguishes it ? It's certainly not any more competitive than La Liga, Bundesliga or the Brasiliao, It also doesn't have better foreign players either. So in what way is it "better" in your opinion ?

"just because the english national team is **** and the epl is full of foreigners does not mean the epl is not the best. the brazilian national team is great, the league is ****"

Well currently there a 3 players from the Brazilian leagues first XI of the Brazilian National team so I would say that's a pretty good advertisement for the Brazilian domestic leagues especially as there are only 3 Brazilians from the EPL in the first XI too.

So I'm afraid this argument falls flat on it's face, what's worse is that of course all of the Brazilian players have played at least 5 years in their home leagues before moving to Europe such is the nature of the youth and first team systems in Brazil.

In addition because all Brazilian Players are now required to stay in Brazil until at least 18 it means they can't be so easily poached by European teams who need to import South American talents. This will make the league even stronger.

I'm not to sure where you coming from, but before you pronounce judgement on other leagues you should remember that the EPL itself is built on the success of players in other leagues.

"i think your underestimating evra by saying he won;t be able to cope. scholes has no physical presence and would probably get a red for continuious fouling if we gave scholes the job of dealing with iniesta and xavi. vidic and ferdinand can deal with anything but it will be hard. keirrison is nowhere near being the best in the world right now."

Evra

Though I like Evra as a player I think he will find it difficult to deal with Henry or Messi, And of course John O'Shea will have it even worse. Evra is usually a very solid player but he has made mistakes this season that have cost goals and against an Arsenal it might not lead to a goal but against Barcelona it could.

Scholes
I take your point on Scholes he can't tackle very well but he does at least have a physical presence and he will fight for possession, This is something Carrick will not do, Anderson has show that he can press well an turn over possession but whether he can do that against Ineista and Xavi is an different matter. I'm thinking that Rooney will cut in and fight for possession too and that might level things up at the expense of leaving the wing open (If Alex plays him there).

Ferdinand and Vidic
I agree with that you say if Ferdinand plays he will be crucial to the outcome of the game, Vidic has show that he is consistent but when he's up against players who are faster and have more skill on the ball he ends up being outplayed and in some cases red carded, As Vidic said himself he's not anywhere near the level he wants to be at, He'll learn a lot form Ferdinand over the coming years I think, but he is a potential weakness as well as an asset.


Keirrison

He's not the finished article yet but I've seen him play for Coritiba and Palmeiras and he is an excellent striker and technical player, He's the only player to get anywhere near the great Ronaldo's goal scoring record in the Paulista state or Brasiliao, make no mistake this kid is going to be amazing, but your right I may be a little premature on that one !. Also don;t forget that Ronaldo went on to score stupid amounts fo goals in Spain as well, so success in Brazil does translate to success in Europe and Robinho's 14 goals in the Prem this seasons shows that it can be done here too !.

But most of the point of football is to enjoy the game and lets hope that the Man Utd and Barcelona game will be the cracker that everyone hopes for.

 

[19-11-08]

Because what I'm talking about is the media spin as I said, if you take the media spin away the EPL is just as good as other leagues but it is not the best league in the way in which Sky would have you believe. As I said before its one of the best. But it is not the best League in the world, there isn't a "best league" in the sense your thinking of because people have different tastes.

"exciting football means nothing if one of the best teams in the leagues your mentioning played a top four team they would get owned"

But it's just a fact that Brazilian usually beat European teams when they play them in competitions, Sao Paolo beat Liverpool in 2005 in edition Internacional beat Barcelona in 2006 World Club Cups. So I'm afraid your wrong there. Great matches as well! I think you seem to be under the impression that south American football is all about attack, and you'd be mistaken Brazilian teams have good defences and amazing goal keepers too, Julio Cesar is just one example.

"no one is saying that the epl is the best because of the english players, or the english style is better"

So then what else distinguishes it ? It's certainly not any more competitive than La Liga, Bundesliga or the Brasiliao, It also doesn't have better foreign players either. So in what way is it "better" in your opinion ?

"just because the english national team is **** and the epl is full of foreigners does not mean the epl is not the best. the brazilian national team is great, the league is ****"

Well currently there a 3 players from the Brazilian leagues first XI of the Brazilian National team so I would say that's a pretty good advertisement for the Brazilian domestic leagues especially as there are only 3 Brazilians from the EPL in the first XI too.

So I'm afraid this argument falls flat on it's face, what's worse is that of course all of the Brazilian players have played at least 5 years in their home leagues before moving to Europe such is the nature of the youth and first team systems in Brazil.

In addition because all Brazilian Players are now required to stay in Brazil until at least 18 it means they can't be so easily poached by European teams who need to import South American talents. This will make the league even stronger.

I'm not to sure where you coming from, but before you pronounce judgement on other leagues you should remember that the EPL itself is built on the success of players in other leagues.

But most of the point of football is to enjoy the game and lets hope that the Man Utd and Barcelona game will be the cracker that everyone hopes for.

the only reason brazilian teams have decent results against us is that it's normally in the world club cup which english teams see as a nuiscance like the carling cup. if you were to swap everton and a brazilian team so they played a season in each others league i believe everton would win the league whil the brazilian team would struggle.

it is better because man united could easily beat every german, spanish, mexican, brazilian, iatlian etc team same with arsenal, chelsea and liverpool. leagues are just collections of teams that all play in the same country and i believe if you were to assign points to teams for their ability to beat their foreign counter parts and total them up for each league the epl would come out on top.

i am not denying that some other leagues produce more world class players, or play more exciting football but i feel this is irrelavent.

 

[thisisoverlord]

the only reason Brazilian teams have decent results against us is that it's normally in the world club cup which English teams see as a nuisance like the Carling cup. if you were to swap Everton and a Brazilian team so they played a season in each others league I believe Everton would win the league while the Brazilian team would struggle.

it is better because man united could easily beat every German, Spanish, Mexican, Brazilian, Italian etc team same with arsenal, chelsea and liverpool. leagues are just collections of teams that all play in the same country and i believe if you were to assign points to teams for their ability to beat their foreign counter parts and total them up for each league the epl would come out on top.

i am not denying that some other leagues produce more world class players, or play more exciting football but i feel this is irrelavent.

I don't agree, Man Utd, Barcelona, AC Milan et al have always put our their best teams in the World Club Cup it's only been a regular fixture in the start of this Century but it's gown in popularity a lot in the past 10 years. Most teams go out to win it and put out their best teams this has always been the case.

I think if Everton were to play in the Brasilao they'd get hammered week in week out it'd be like playing Barcelona every game and having the skill & technical ability of Stoke City. I guess we'll never know who is right. but there is no less merit in what I say about Everton and what you say about it and neither of us can be proved right, all I know is that I've got the experience of watching a lot of leagues across the world and hope that I carry a more balanced view than that of BSkyB.

"it is better because man united could easily beat every german, spanish, mexican, brazilian, iatlian etc team same with arsenal, chelsea and liverpool"

Just the same they've lost in the past 10 years against teams from all those nations so I don't see how that makes any difference ? And as you say if it's just individual teams and not the nature of the league itself then a World Super League would be "the best" ... If it's just about the teams that inhabit a league and their players then you can't really argue that the League itself is best because of its nature and if that's the case then it's the Clubs your interested in not the league and I would tend to agree really. If you go even further you'd see that actually the best football happens on the right day with the teams in the right place. I've seen games in Brazil that are better Technically, Defensively, Strategically than in the Premiership and Vice Versa which is why I think no one should rule teams out just because they aren't in the Premiership.

"i am not denying that some other leagues produce more world class players, or play more exciting football but i feel this is irrelavent"

So do you think if we said that Brazil is the best footballing nation and has the best skill, technique and football in the world, but the Premiership is the best League in the world we'd be in agreement ? Well I don't know if I believe that about the Premiership, all I know is the Premiership can produce amazing teams and games like the Man Utd Vs Tottenham game or the Liverpool Vs Man Utd games, but they can also produce dire games too ! Chelseas games this year are a prime example. It's the same everywhere I think I've seen some dire games across the board but I've seen amazing ones like Wolfsburg Vs Bayern or Real Madrid Vs Barca.

 

[Zebedee]

With regards to the match itself there are three key areas.

Wing Play:

Messi and Henry are great on the wing and support their wingbacks when the need arises.

The weakness here for Man Utd is John O'Shea and Evra aren't up to task and Ronaldo rarely tracks back. Rooney however will.

The problem is that Barca aren't able to exploit the weakness of the Manc defence because their buildup is too slow and the wingers don't stay out wide. That means the back four of the Mancs will not get stretched sufficiently to pull Ferdinand and Vidic about. Eto'o is a good striker but I think he isn't a good lone forward and won't get behind them either which means at best for Barca lots of crosses from the fullbacks for Ferdinand and Vidic to head away.

Barcelona will have severe difficulty in getting any attacking plays form their own makeshift wing backs which might cut the supply of balls to the wing forwards... however Iniesta and Xavi are usually the guys who pass to feet so no great loss there but defiantly a loss in pressure, crosses and free kick taking (Alves).

Barca don't play down the wings though - that's the problem against English teams who effectively play 4-2-3-1 - unless the fullbacks bomb on to the corner flag, Barca get stifled just outside the 18 yard box without the ball reaching their wingers, who then drift inside and compress the attack even more which is self-defeating.

If Ronaldo and Rooney play well and can get service from midfield and the wing backs then Barcelona will have big problems. on the other hand the threat of Barcelona's counter attacks may pen in Man Utd's own wing play.

They don't need 'service' though mate. They just need to stay upfield for the balls over the top. Watch how the Mancs break - they just need to do that and finish well and they'll get a bagful if Barca play as they have done over the past three seasons against English clubs.

The Central Defence:

Expect both Central defences to be quite solid, with Man Utd the simple facts that a) Ferdinand and Vidic will not be able to control all 5 Barcalona attacking players and all of them are lethal with time and space on the ball. O'shea and Evra will also have problems as mentioned above b) Messi's technical skill will mean that Vidic may find himself picking up some cards.

With Barcelona the issue will be with how their defence will deal with Rooney/Ronaldo/Tevez and likewise if these guys get in round the wing backs then it could be all over very quickly, and this is likely if Man Utd have long spells of possession and can pick out good long passes to the width.

The Mancs will play a 4-2-3-1. Ferdinand will probably pick up any winger cutting inside and Vidic will smother Eto'o. There just won't be the space in the centre of the pitch for Barca to move the ball about. Barca play by compressing play into their opponent's half. Against weaker teams, this works. Against a top team, it doesn't - Chelsea could have scored five or six good goals against them. Instead of Malouda and Droghba, you have Ronaldo and Rooney. Ronaldo and Rooney are far more effective at counterattacking.

The Midfield:

Depends on who Alex plays there but basically they need to be able to check Iniesta and Xavi from supplying the magic... considering Iniesta is probably the best player in the world with perhaps the exception of Keirrison and Messi this will be difficult but Scholes with his physical presence could be up for the challenge, Anderson and Carrick will not be able to stop these two ! this is perhaps Man Utd's Achilles heel I expect Ferdinand to push forward and cut off the danger as well. when people talk of Barca it's always about Eto, Messi and and Henry but really the linchpins of the whole operation are Ineista and Xavi. This is proved in the Chelsea matches where the physical game played by Lampard, Terry, Essien etc and the close pressing when not having possession really killed the game, because Iniesta and Xavi were not given the time and comfort to build up play. The problem is Man Utd don't really have the players who can do that.

The Mancs just have to be disciplined and not get pulled out of position - especially the two in front of the central defence. Barca do not have a threat out wide - even less without their two normal fullbacks, so providing the Mancs keep their shape, Barca will have no room behind the defence to play balls into. The Mancs won't play like Chelsea, but they will be sound defensively. Just as they did, was it last season?

Conclusion:

Man Utd's best chance to win the game is to control possession, press hard without the ball, and look to counter down the wings and to employ Ronaldo's tendency to go down alongside Tevez/Rooney's brilliant runs and shots, if Ronaldo can get enough free kicks out of the makeshift Barca Defence then it might just take it's toll.

Barcelona's best chances are to pressure the wing backs as they will crack and to control midfield which they are capable of doing againsta less physical United central midfield. If Barcelona's attacking 5 are allowed to play and are playing at their best they can and would outplay Man Utd.

Thats my 47 pence on the issue (6)

The Mancs will win unless Barca and Pep show that they can adapt their game. The first step in this is to allow the Mancs a bit more room to play and not try to compress play around the Mancs' penalty box. They need to pull Evra higher up the pitch to force Vidic over to cover him, this leaves Vidic out on a limb and forces him into rash tackles. If they can get a player beyond the Manc central defence then they can do some damage. They won't get a player in that position if they try to compress play though. They need to allow the Mancs some possession to draw them out and to expose the limited mobility of the Manc central midfield in covering. If Barca play their usual game, they will lose to the Mancs on the counter. I'd seriously suggest playing Messi on the left and Henry on the right with Bojan down the middle. Bojan has ability in the air as well as on the ground. I've not seen anything from Eto'o to suggest he will trouble Vidic and Ferdinand with his movement.

Just some counterpoints

 

[Q8_Joker]

the cup will never leave England !!!! no matter how hard they try to buy the referees n help em try to qualify by not givin Chelsea deserved penalties !? Glory glory man united....

 

[GUNNER500]

lol go barca best team in europe!!!!!! 60+ got it wrong!

 

[Zebedee]

Taggart - you tactical genius you Superb!