CJS CD Declining Beta Access

[Tezzz]

Just received this from them:

So let me understand this,You order a code that does not include Beta access. The product description says that:
1 x Football Manager 2015 Steam CD Key
football_manager_2015_STEAM
Do you see any mention of beta access? No.
You then proceed to flood the ticket system with tickets.
Now, you have written defamatory comments on a public forum.
Here is what I strongly suggest. Remove the posts within 24 hours. CJS will, in an English Court of Law, start proceedings regarding a case for deformation.
Please accept this as the one and only written warning that you will receive.

Time 20:52 Date 26 October 2014

Truly comical stuff from this website. I'm going to have to find the website link that I was given on this forum that showed they were promised beta access to its pre-orders. The idiots are even getting deformation mixed up with defamation.

 

[iamauser]

Just received this from them:



Truly comical stuff from this website. I'm going to have to find the website link that I was given on this forum that showed they were promised beta access to its pre-orders.

I havent been following this thread for a bit, so sorry if its been asked, but did you select beta access on their website?

 

[Tezzz]

I havent been following this thread for a bit, so sorry if its been asked, but did you select beta access on their website?

There was no option when I purchased the game like there is now. They were however participating in the beta access promise as others also said this on their facebook page.


Regardless whether they think I'm entitled to it or not is not a concern to me anymore. I'm just demanding a refund and as I haven't activated the FM15 key then I'm fully entitled to a refund under their ToS.

 

[Jake]

Ah the good old legal action threat. Hot air.

Would love to see a case for deformation. Muppets.

Equally Tezz, whether they were on a list for BETA access on a website (that i assume they don't control) or not, your purchase was made against an item carrying no mention of BETA access. The subsequent addition of BETA access and questionable VPN access/Russian versions to the product description is largely irrelevant. From a legal standpoint you are not entitled to BETA access unless the product description said so.

But, you are well within your rights to cancel an order with a supplier of goods/services up until the point of dispatch, for any reason. In this case 'dispatch' would be the sending of your code via email. So, if CJS are declining to issue a refund, or indeed ignore you and issue the code for the game now that they have acknowledged receipt of your request for a refund (everything else related to your case is just background noise) then you definitely have a case. I would suggest contacting your payment issuer (paypal, credit/debit card etc) and you get a surprisingly fast resolution.

This thread serves as a warning to everyone about the messy grey area that is product keys for games in this day and age. Gone are the straightforward days of a simple disc. The world of keys and regions has complicated things, and there will always be opportunities for scammers to take advantage. I fully believe that issuing a Russian version as a steam gift and asking the customer to activate using a VPN is in no way legal and I'll be amazed if these guys are selling FM16.

 

[mersk]

I fully believe that issuing a Russian version as a steam gift and asking the customer to activate using a VPN is in no way legal and I'll be amazed if these guys are selling FM16.

It's illegal, but I have no doubts they'll be selling FM 16 nonetheless. Either "still going strong", or under a new name.

 

[Tezzz]

Ah the good old legal action threat. Hot air.

Would love to see a case for deformation. Muppets.

Equally Tezz, whether they were on a list for BETA access on a website (that i assume they don't control) or not, your purchase was made against an item carrying no mention of BETA access. The subsequent addition of BETA access and questionable VPN access/Russian versions to the product description is largely irrelevant. From a legal standpoint you are not entitled to BETA access unless the product description said so.

But, you are well within your rights to cancel an order with a supplier of goods/services up until the point of dispatch, for any reason. In this case 'dispatch' would be the sending of your code via email. So, if CJS are declining to issue a refund, or indeed ignore you and issue the code for the game now that they have acknowledged receipt of your request for a refund (everything else related to your case is just background noise) then you definitely have a case. I would suggest contacting your payment issuer (paypal, credit/debit card etc) and you get a surprisingly fast resolution.

This thread serves as a warning to everyone about the messy grey area that is product keys for games in this day and age. Gone are the straightforward days of a simple disc. The world of keys and regions has complicated things, and there will always be opportunities for scammers to take advantage. I fully believe that issuing a Russian version as a steam gift and asking the customer to activate using a VPN is in no way legal and I'll be amazed if these guys are selling FM16.

Read and understood.

 

[Jake]

That's my take on it anyway. I haven't looked into anything fully, you briefly mention that they made a BETA access promise? If they advertised this themselves somewhere (ie facebook or even on their own website away from the product description) then you do have a case. I'm not sure a list published by a 3rd party counts unless they endorsed it somehow (linking it to it or advertising it themselves, again facebook seems a likely medium)

Don't give up, the more noise you make then the more the realisation in their mind grows that refunding you (or giving a BETA code) will make the problem go away. In the meantime, here is some interesting reading for you,if you haven't checked already. All information is available publicly btw, so sadly there will not be a 'deformation' case against me

545 LONDON ROAD
WEST THURROCK
GRAYS
ESSEX
RM20 4AD

07899 927 882
07787 360213

ASA Adjudication on CJS Sales & Services Ltd - Advertising Standards Authority

 

[iamauser]

What day did you order it?

 

[MillerJA9]

I bought from them also today, didn't get that Beta code within 2 hours as promised, haven't got yet (8h). I hope I get it tomorrow atleast.

I ordered a couple of days before beta release and didn't get my code until two hours after beta had been released. I sent them emails to push to receive my code. If you do this via the contact link on the website I am sure they will send you the code promptly!

 

[Vanjagl]

Ah the good old legal action threat. Hot air.

Would love to see a case for deformation. Muppets.

Equally Tezz, whether they were on a list for BETA access on a website (that i assume they don't control) or not, your purchase was made against an item carrying no mention of BETA access. The subsequent addition of BETA access and questionable VPN access/Russian versions to the product description is largely irrelevant. From a legal standpoint you are not entitled to BETA access unless the product description said so.

But, you are well within your rights to cancel an order with a supplier of goods/services up until the point of dispatch, for any reason. In this case 'dispatch' would be the sending of your code via email. So, if CJS are declining to issue a refund, or indeed ignore you and issue the code for the game now that they have acknowledged receipt of your request for a refund (everything else related to your case is just background noise) then you definitely have a case. I would suggest contacting your payment issuer (paypal, credit/debit card etc) and you get a surprisingly fast resolution.

This thread serves as a warning to everyone about the messy grey area that is product keys for games in this day and age. Gone are the straightforward days of a simple disc. The world of keys and regions has complicated things, and there will always be opportunities for scammers to take advantage. I fully believe that issuing a Russian version as a steam gift and asking the customer to activate using a VPN is in no way legal and I'll be amazed if these guys are selling FM16.

I contacted SI on that matter (using VPN to activate Russian version of the game) and they said it's illegal and by all means to report the site on [email protected]
I would encourage everyone who see that kind of behavior to report it to SI. It may not be today, but tomorrow you'll be 'victim' of this kind of 'fraud'.

 

[cjsOfficial]

Dear Terry (OP).

I'm really sorry hear of this bad experience you had with our company. I'm a senior manager of the company, and I'd like to take the time to explain the problem and how we have resolved it for you.

First of all, we have refunded you in full since it seems that the product your ordered is not what you intended to receive. We have no issue in refunding you since you have not received any game keys from us yet. I really have no idea why your support agent was not forthcoming with the refund as they should have been.. We have spoken to them regarding this.

In response to your postings on FM-Base, I would like to address a few points.

We're a legitimate company, and we have no intention of tricking anyone. We want our customers to be happy. I would like to take the time to explain the reason for your problem and how we have resolved it for you.

When you ordered the product, you did so at a time when we were not offering the beta edition. We were simply selling the Standard Edition of the game with no beta. We did not mention the beta access anywhere whatsoever on our website or social media. I am guessing this is the reason why your initial ticket messages to us were querying whether you will receive the beta or not.

Only in the past week or so, we have started selling the beta edition of the game. The beta edition comes at a higher price from our distributor, and it is sold on our site as a separate product variation to the standard edition. Football Manager comes with beta access and without. they are 2 separate 'edition's' of the game available from the distributor. While beta is automatically included with pre-orders made on Steam, pre-orders made from retail websites do not necessarily include the beta.

Because you ordered the game before we started to offer the beta edition, and at a time when no mention of the beta on our website, your order was already allocated to the standard edition of the game in our systems.

I see that on the FM-base forum some people are saying that we sell VPN activated (russian) CD Keys for football manager 2015, however this is alongside the EU version. We offer both EU and RU versions of the game. We have customers from all over the world and we sell both editions to suit customers from both regions. I would like to point out that activating with a VPN on Steam is not illegal and you will not be banned for it, since many people legitimately use VPN's all the time to remain anonymous on the internet. If Steam banned people using VPN's, they would ban almost 40% of their customer base, since VPN's are a popular tool that internet users use to remain anonymous.

The good news is that this is all irrelevant though, since you purchased, and would have received, a fully EU region free version of the game. We recommend to our customers that they should purchase the game versions which corresponds to their own region. The Russian version of the game is meant for our customers from nordic regions.

In summary, I can confirm that you've been refunded in full, and I would like to take this opportunity to apologise for the inconvenience you were caused. It is clear that the support agent who dealt with you was not forthcoming enough with an offer of a refund, and this will be resolved for the future.

I'm confident that if you decide to buy from us again, you'll experience our usual smooth and instant service. Indeed, if you pre-order the beta edition of the game, you will receive your beta key instantly after payment.

Thank you again and sorry for the inconvenience you were caused. I hope this resolves the issue for you.


Thanks

 

[mersk]

I see that on the FM-base forum some people are saying that we sell VPN activated (russian) CD Keys for football manager 2015, however this is alongside the EU version. We offer both EU and RU versions of the game. We have customers from all over the world and we sell both editions to suit customers from both regions. I would like to point out that activating with a VPN on Steam is not illegal and you will not be banned for it, since many people legitimately use VPN's all the time to remain anonymous on the internet. If Steam banned people using VPN's, they would ban almost 40% of their customer base, since VPN's are a popular tool that internet users use to remain anonymous.

This is not true. You must have missed this part from Steam's End User License Agreement:

"You agree that you will not use IP proxying or other methods to disguise the place of your residence, whether to circumvent geographical restrictions on game content, to purchase at pricing not applicable to your geography, or for any other purpose. If you do this, we may terminate your access to your Account."

 

[Dunc]

(stuff)

Just going to note that I have used CJS for buying games before and have never had an issue. Never been sent a Russian key or anything untoward and have received the steam key in a relatively sort space of time and the service has been great. Glad it seems Tezz has had his issue sorted out, will leave the thread open for him to confirm what has been said to be true.

Saying that, I doubt 40% of steam users are using a VPN. I'd be surprised if it were over 10% to be honest, but I don't have the figures. Either way, I personally don't think you should be promoting the use of VPN to access games cheaper without explaining the user is running the risk of being banned, as stated by the Steam EULA. While it's not my place to tell you what you and your company do on your own site, it's not good form to come onto our forums and state it as fact that people won't get banned from activating a game behind a VPN, when there is a chance, however small, that they will.

Anyway, I hope this is sorted out so Tezz can get his beta access sorted and if anyone else has had a similar issue they can see this thread and note the reasons why they may or may not have beta access from CJS.

 

[Tezzz]

Just checked my paypal account and they have indeed given me a full refund. It's a shame that I wasn't hearing anything back until I had to open a PayPal dispute and also cause a bit of heat using these forums.

I am also glad to see that they have dropped all charges against me for being deformed.


On a more serious note I have tracked back through my history and found the website that were stating CJS's copy of FM included Beta Access. The website was allkeyshop.com and I have forwarded this information to CJS.

Thanks to everyone on the forum for their responses and thanks to the CJS senior manager for sorting this mess out.


Also I agree with Dunc on leaving the thread open and visible for future purposes.

 

[cjsOfficial]

Thanks everyone, I'm really glad that this issue got resolved for all.

We've offered the VPN activated keys for the last 5 years, not a single account has ever been banned for this. If Steam banned people who used VPN's, then Steam would have some serious trouble from all the people who logged in with a VPN activated!

For those who are willing to buy a VPN activated key for a cheaper price, rest assured that we would always refund you if for some reason your key did get banned. The reason we guarantee this is because we are 100% confident that our users will not be banned from activating with a VPN. The reasons are because VPN use is legal and used by many computer users to stay anonymous on the internet, and because in our past 5 years of experience we haven't seen a single person get problems from activating a key with VPN.


Still, it's up to the user whether they want to use a VPN activated key or not. For those that don't want to take the risk, we do offer EU Region free versions of all of our games Our EU Region free Football Manager 2015 Steam Keys are still available at an awesome price.


Thanks Terry I'm glad you are satisfied that the problem is resolved. If you would be so kind to update your first post on this thread to state that the issue was since resolved, that will be great!

 

[bravo433]

I always buy games on Steam if they have them. I may pay a bit more, but I always get my game & patches on time (as long as my housemates aren't killing my bandwidth) and switching to a new PC is easy.