Do you Believe In God

[curtis290]

"Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war." - Qur'an:9:88
"Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah." - Qur'an:8:39
"Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you." Qur'an:9:123

That's just 3 of a whole load. I'm not sure what else "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah." can mean myself.

You will find the people most affectionate to those who believe are those who say, 'We are Christians.' That is because some of them are priests and monks and because they are not arrogant. (Surat al-Ma'ida, 82)

Today all good things have been made lawful for you. And the food of those given the Book is also lawful for you and your food is lawful for them. So are chaste women from among the believers and chaste women of those given the Book before you, once you have given them their dowries in marriage, not in fornication or taking them as lovers. But as for anyone who disbelieve, his actions will come to nothing and in the hereafter he will be among the losers. (Surat al-Mai'da: 5)

…if God had not driven some people back by means of others, monasteries, churches, synagogues and mosques, where God's name is mentioned much, would have been pulled down and destroyed. God will certainly help those who help Him - God is All-Strong, Almighty. (Surat al-Hajj: 40 )

"If any of the idolaters ask you for protection, give them protection until they have heard the words of God. Then convey them to a place where they are safe." (Surat at-Tawba: 6)

O People of the Book! Let us rally to a common formula to be binding on both us and you: That we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than God. (Surat Al 'Imran, 64)



I can play that game too. People are inherently intolerant of other cultures, belief systems, and lots of other things...I mean, look at the homosexuality thread, many of the anti-gay people there were atheist. It's silly to blame religion for things that are fundamentally a part of human nature/our cultures.

Also, to bring up the terrorism example because that's what people love to bring up, it's not because we are Christian, it's because of our imperialism, support for Israel, and our forcing of liberalism and free-market oriented policies on them. Terrorism is politically motivated at its heart, sometimes they just use religion to give legitimacy to their cause.

 

[Joel`]

You will find the people most affectionate to those who believe are those who say, 'We are Christians.' That is because some of them are priests and monks and because they are not arrogant. (Surat al-Ma'ida, 82)

Today all good things have been made lawful for you. And the food of those given the Book is also lawful for you and your food is lawful for them. So are chaste women from among the believers and chaste women of those given the Book before you, once you have given them their dowries in marriage, not in fornication or taking them as lovers. But as for anyone who disbelieve, his actions will come to nothing and in the hereafter he will be among the losers. (Surat al-Mai'da: 5)

…if God had not driven some people back by means of others, monasteries, churches, synagogues and mosques, where God's name is mentioned much, would have been pulled down and destroyed. God will certainly help those who help Him - God is All-Strong, Almighty. (Surat al-Hajj: 40 )

"If any of the idolaters ask you for protection, give them protection until they have heard the words of God. Then convey them to a place where they are safe." (Surat at-Tawba: 6)

O People of the Book! Let us rally to a common formula to be binding on both us and you: That we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than God. (Surat Al 'Imran, 64)



I can play that game too. People are inherently intolerant of other cultures, belief systems, and lots of other things...I mean, look at the homosexuality thread, many of the anti-gay people there were atheist. It's silly to blame religion for things that are fundamentally a part of human nature/our cultures.

Also, to bring up the terrorism example because that's what people love to bring up, it's not because we are Christian, it's because of our imperialism, support for Israel, and our forcing of liberalism and free-market oriented policies on them. Terrorism is politically motivated at its heart, sometimes they just use religion to give legitimacy to their cause.

Your quotes showing peace within Islam still proves nothing. You still are just contradicting my own statement, and as I'm sure you know, I'm really not going to complain if you're giving me contradictions.

Why did the SAME God make these beliefs in completely opposite directions? How can the same God demand that people fight for him, and then say the opposite, in the same source of text? Why do the old testament and new testament God contrast so greatly? If they're all the same God, why would it even want to inspire conflict between his own follower's?

EDIT: And why is it silly to blame religion? Sure, they exist in human nature in the first place. I'm pretty sure when the Pope - the leader of the religion - calls Homosexuality an evil, morale sin; then that is influencing a whole religious culture against Homosexuality. Explain why I can't blame religion for that. Just because it exists in the first place is no reason for the Pope to cause Homophobia to spread even more rapidly.

 

[Chris]

Your quotes showing peace within Islam still proves nothing. You still are just contradicting my own statement, and as I'm sure you know, I'm really not going to complain if you're giving me contradictions.

Why did the SAME God make these beliefs in completely opposite directions? How can the same God demand that people fight for him, and then say the opposite, in the same source of text? Why do the old testament and new testament God contrast so greatly? If they're all the same God, why would it even want to inspire conflict between his own follower's?

EDIT: And why is it silly to blame religion? Sure, they exist in human nature in the first place. I'm pretty sure when the Pope - the leader of the religion - calls Homosexuality an evil, morale sin; then that is influencing a whole religious culture against Homosexuality. Explain why I can't blame religion for that. Just because it exists in the first place is no reason for the Pope to cause Homophobia to spread even more rapidly.

The Pope (and Catholics) do NOT believe in homophobia. They believe that is wrong. What they do believe in is not having *** if you are homosexual.

 

[GodCubed]

The Pope (and Catholics) do NOT believe in homophobia. They believe that is wrong. What they do believe in is not having *** if you are homosexual.

Don't fool yourself. They incite hatred against the LBGT community all the time. They never, ever come out and tell followers not to be homophobic, or at very least not with any meaning behind their statements.

 

[Joel`]

The Pope (and Catholics) do NOT believe in homophobia. They believe that is wrong. What they do believe in is not having *** if you are homosexual.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/aug/01/gayrights.uk

"The Vatican yesterday urged Catholic politicians to actively campaign against legalising gay marriages which it said were evil, deviant and posed a grave threat to society."

So why should the homosexual have his rights to *** removed for the fact he is, homosexual. What gives religion, based on nothing more but hugely hypocritical, contradictory ancient texts the right to subject someone to that? Really, do enlighten me. Why would God, the omnipotent, omniscient and benevolent one; even create homosexuality in the first place and then condemn it, and cause a person (whom he is supposed to love infinitely) to live in torment?

 

[phila001]

1. YES
2. YES
3. I choose to!

 

[Glasgow Bhoy]

I believe in science!!!

 

[Athe~]

I'm pretty sure any point I could possibly make has already been covered in the las 37 pages, so I'm merely going to say that I don't believe in the existance of a god, that religions are, as far as I'm concerned, absurd and obsolete. They served a purpose, a role now fulfilled by science, and right now all they do is draw us apart, instead of trying to bring us together.

Long live Russel's Teapot.

 

[19-11-08]

"Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war." - Qur'an:9:88
"Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah." - Qur'an:8:39
"Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you." Qur'an:9:123

That's just 3 of a whole load. I'm not sure what else "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah." can mean myself.

Qur'an: 9:88 "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."
Not sure where your version of Qur'an 9:88 came from but when you search it thats what comes up.

When you take them out of context the other two quotes look bad but Surah's 8 and 9 are referring to the conduct of Muslims in war. So the Qu'ran is not actually telling them to fight a war with every non-believer they find but how they should act during these wars.
Plus all those quotes seem to have used the translation that makes them seem the worse. Like in the last one for example; The word harshness has been translated to mean firmness in other sources.

 

[Joel`]

Qur'an: 9:88 "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."
Not sure where your version of Qur'an 9:88 came from but when you search it thats what comes up.

When you take them out of context the other two quotes look bad but Surah's 8 and 9 are referring to the conduct of Muslims in war. So the Qu'ran is not actually telling them to fight a war with every non-believer they find but how they should act during these wars.
Plus all those quotes seem to have used the translation that makes them seem the worse. Like in the last one for example; The word harshness has been translated to mean firmness in other sources.

I believe it was Qur;an 9:5, not sure where 9:88 came from.

Why does it matter how they conduct themselves? It is still written, 100's of times that there will be slaughter, murder (and more extremely strong and graphic adjectives for killing) for those that don't believe. Why is it telling Muslim's to go to war with non-believers in the first place?

"Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..." Quran 9:14

"As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help." Quran 3:56

"Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…" Quran 4:76

Religion of peace, indeed. Just look at country's where Islam is dominant, minorities suffer greatly and brutally to the hands of Islam. And just look at Europe and the US, where Islam is the minority. There are threats of terror when they don't get what they want. Peaceful and tolerant? Yeah right.

 

[phila001]

YouTube - Does GOD Exist... Brilliantly answered by a Genius...
something i saw on facebook and thought ill share

 

[19-11-08]

I believe it was Qur;an 9:5, not sure where 9:88 came from.

Why does it matter how they conduct themselves? It is still written, 100's of times that there will be slaughter, murder (and more extremely strong and graphic adjectives for killing) for those that don't believe. Why is it telling Muslim's to go to war with non-believers in the first place?

"Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..." Quran 9:14

"As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help." Quran 3:56

"Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…" Quran 4:76

Religion of peace, indeed. Just look at country's where Islam is dominant, minorities suffer greatly and brutally to the hands of Islam. And just look at Europe and the US, where Islam is the minority. There are threats of terror when they don't get what they want. Peaceful and tolerant? Yeah right.

Sorry, i didn't make it clear. Surah 9 was revealed when they were already at war.
He's not telling them to go to war with the Non-Believers. They were already at war with them, Pagans.

Qu'ran 4:76- "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan."
Struggling to see whats wrong with that. Fight does not neccesarily mean wage war.

I'm not here to argue Islam is perfect, it's not. Just that it doesn't promote waging war against all non believers.

 

[GodCubed]

YouTube - Does GOD Exist... Brilliantly answered by a Genius...
something i saw on facebook and thought ill share

What a load of old ****. That isn't proving whether God exists or not, that's just taking a few examples of things in nature and applying God to them. Incidentally, was that actually an Einstein saying, all of that, or did a religious person just take the cleverest person they could think of and use him as a poster boy for religion?

More to the point, even if a young Einstein did say that, he's being **** in the extreme. We all know that darkness exists, he was just differing on the definition of it. Is darkness 'dark' or is it 'the absence of light'? Either is acceptable, because even if the latter is true in a strict sense the former is generally widely accepted too.

 

[phila001]

i put it down to what you personal believe!
you can believe in what you want!

 

[ScousePaul]

...Well I'm a Jedi (H)

 

[hiphopahol101]

I believe Religion hampers progress in the world e.g. Stem Cell Research
It is also used as an excuse for violence and hatred towards anything different. I believe the day there is total world peace is the day all religions are abolished and we can move on as a united people.

 

[Joel`]

What a load of old ****. That isn't proving whether God exists or not, that's just taking a few examples of things in nature and applying God to them. Incidentally, was that actually an Einstein saying, all of that, or did a religious person just take the cleverest person they could think of and use him as a poster boy for religion?

More to the point, even if a young Einstein did say that, he's being **** in the extreme. We all know that darkness exists, he was just differing on the definition of it. Is darkness 'dark' or is it 'the absence of light'? Either is acceptable, because even if the latter is true in a strict sense the former is generally widely accepted too.

Einstein did say it indeed, but he wasn't a Theist, not necessarily Atheist either, though.

The main argument there is that within the Law of Physics, our definition of evil, darkness and light are non-existent. But it is God who created the Laws of Physics. If he was truly omnipotent, he wouldn't allow the absence of good in someone to be possible in the first place. Plus, light, temperature and evil are completely different things. Light and temperature are also quantifiable. We heat molecules, they gain kinetic energy and vibrate and move around more. We take the heat away, they lose energy and thus get colder. Good and Evil aren't quantifiable physical subjects, so it's difficult to create analogies based on it, since they're philosophical concepts, and don't necessarily apply to our current physical framework.

And doesn't the adverse apply? Why is it good that can't be non-existent, surely it can be adding good to evil to remove it, rather than an absence of good? It really irks me when religion looks to quotes from a famous scientist to try and verify their claims. The man wasn't even theist, he was a young child when he said this, are we sure he wasn't just trying to catch his teacher out with his intelligence, rather than showing any theological desire? He always said he was a freethinker, which is roughly atheist in german translation. He just didn't get involved with either side.

Sorry, i didn't make it clear. Surah 9 was revealed when they were already at war.
He's not telling them to go to war with the Non-Believers. They were already at war with them, Pagans.

Qu'ran 4:76- "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan."
Struggling to see whats wrong with that. Fight does not neccesarily mean wage war.

Just because it's full blown war, doesn't make it any less violent.

 

[19-11-08]

Just because it's full blown war, doesn't make it any less violent.

Qu'ran 4:75(The verse before the one you posted to add some context):
"And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!""
It's telling them to fight on behalf of the ill treated and oppressed. Hardly disgraceful.

 

[Joel`]

Qu'ran 4:75(The verse before the one you posted to add some context):
"And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!""
It's telling them to fight on behalf of the ill treated and oppressed. Hardly disgraceful.

And the verse before that.

"Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." - Qu'ran 4:74

One of the quotes that inspire today's suicide bombers.

 

[Shakhtardfc1]

No
No

The film, Paul, pretty much sums up my feelings about religion. Especially where Seth comes out of the toilet and shows the God-loving girl himself.

I believe in Science, and that religion is just a bunch of biased people working for the good of themselves (essentially, it's like a dictatorship).