England Thread

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Still can't tell is Southgate is a football genius or luckiest man in history always rolling a super easy bracket :unsure:
 
Tyton said:
Still can't tell is Southgate is a football genius or luckiest man in history always rolling a super easy bracket :unsure:
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He doesn't have to be great, he has lucked into a great squad with immense depth on the attacking front and all he has to do is be pragmatic and over 6 or 7 matches in tournament footie it favors his dull style of footie. For real though when you go over Englands actual squad it really is quite impressive attacking depth-wise for an international side.
 
dilakh2 said:
He doesn't have to be great, he has lucked into a great squad with immense depth on the attacking front ….
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And effectively hosting the tournament.

Hopefully, Italy and Denmark save us. As a final between Southgate and the Tapas Southgate is a really disheartening prospect.
 
Know it is tournament and luck is part of it, but England has lucked out the most.

Also all semi finalists teams had their group games all at home and now England shall continue it Just putting it out there
 
Also, because it came up earlier about Belgium's golden generation

theathletic.com

Euro 2020: Italy 2-1 Belgium: Have De Bruyne, Hazard and Lukaku really failed?

Belgium have outstanding players but the context of the tournament and deeper issues explains why Italy loss may not be 'failure'...
theathletic.com theathletic.com

They make a few, fair points. They've been blessed with attacking talent in Hazard, Lukaku and one of the best midfielders in the world in de Bruyne (oh, and Courtois). Vertonghen and Alderweireld were class during the Poch era too. But across the park, they've lacked talent in key areas - midfield and full-back, for instance. 2018 WC was their best chance, but man to man, France had the better team.

Not commenting about Martinez's tactical nous over here, but it has never been a proper golden generation. per se. They didn't have elite talent in all areas like France do (or even England atm). They had a few key WC players, but woeful mismatch across other areas.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
Completely disagree. France sre the exception to the rule in being stacked across the board. Their depth is ridiculous.

Belgium is as good as it normally gets to have so many top class talents in one squad. All falls back on bad coaching.
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Not talking about being stacked across the board. I'm talking about first team quality itself, before we get into depth.

Looking at their 2018 squad, their defensive line was Vertonghen, Vermaelen, Alderweireld, Boyata, Kompany, Meunier. Barring Meunier, who is not an elite talent per se, they lack basic full backs. Even quality enough for a first team squad. Kompany/Vermaelen were aging/slowing then, but they were forced to use them and push Alderweireld to full back (or Vertonghen, can't remember). That's a low line right there, because it lacks serious pace to play high.

Midfielders were de Bruyne, Fellaini, Witsel, Carrasco, Dembele, Chadli. Other than de Bruyne and Witsel, that is meh and aging. They weren't able to keep up with Kante and Pogba in that loss.

Forward line was Hazard, Lukaku, Mertens, Januzaj, Batshuayi. The starting three, yes, the others, not so much.

My point is, it was a not a true golden generation of having quality at every position (and then suffering through depth). They had ridiculous quality in some places and quite bang average ones in other areas. And then they met France in the semis, who were technically (and as an overall team) better, and got knocked out. Don't think they've particularly under-achieved, when you look at their overall line-up objectively. I think the exception quality in certain areas tends to cloud everyone's eyes towards the imbalanced squad otherwise.

Compare that to France currently (or even England), and that is quality across all positions, before even getting to depth (albeit a few weaknesses for England).

That being said, I do believe someone like a van Gaal (who they interviewed before settling on MArtinez), could have done more tactically. But after Wilmots, I think they went ahead with someone who could harmonize the squad rather than the abrasive, tactical one. Although, one key difference is how managers have converted players (Mancini converting Spinazzola to a LB and modifying tactics to suit his game) to compensate for quality - that, I feel, was missing with Martinez.
 
Sherkey said:
Not talking about being stacked across the board. I'm talking about first team quality itself, before we get into depth.

Looking at their 2018 squad, their defensive line was Vertonghen, Vermaelen, Alderweireld, Boyata, Kompany, Meunier. Barring Meunier, who is not an elite talent per se, they lack basic full backs. Even quality enough for a first team squad. Kompany/Vermaelen were aging/slowing then, but they were forced to use them and push Alderweireld to full back (or Vertonghen, can't remember). That's a low line right there, because it lacks serious pace to play high.

Midfielders were de Bruyne, Fellaini, Witsel, Carrasco, Dembele, Chadli. Other than de Bruyne and Witsel, that is meh and aging. They weren't able to keep up with Kante and Pogba in that loss.

Forward line was Hazard, Lukaku, Mertens, Januzaj, Batshuayi. The starting three, yes, the others, not so much.

My point is, it was a not a true golden generation of having quality at every position (and then suffering through depth). They had ridiculous quality in some places and quite bang average ones in other areas. And then they met France in the semis, who were technically (and as an overall team) better, and got knocked out. Don't think they've particularly under-achieved, when you look at their overall line-up objectively. I think the exception quality in certain areas tends to cloud everyone's eyes towards the imbalanced squad otherwise.

Compare that to France currently (or even England), and that is quality across all positions, before even getting to depth (albeit a few weaknesses for England).

That being said, I do believe someone like a van Gaal (who they interviewed before settling on MArtinez), could have done more tactically. But after Wilmots, I think they went ahead with someone who could harmonize the squad rather than the abrasive, tactical one. Although, one key difference is how managers have converted players (Mancini converting Spinazzola to a LB and modifying tactics to suit his game) to compensate for quality - that, I feel, was missing with Martinez.
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It all falls down to Martinez who cant organize a defence to save his life (Look up complaints on his training methods at Everton it was just vibes) Dont even get started on his setpiece defending. Tournament football is about being balanced and being pragmatic, you have less time to spend on coaching and building a squad so defense is key. Martinez is an atrocious manager who has wasted a great squad and not having top-level fullback is not enough to counter how bad they have performed. When even Southgate is showing you up then you know it's bad. At least he recognizes the importance of pragmatism.
 
dilakh2 said:
It all falls down to Martinez who cant organize a defence to save his life (Look up complaints on his training methods at Everton it was just vibes) Dont even get started on his setpiece defending. Tournament football is about being balanced and being pragmatic, you have less time to spend on coaching and building a squad so defense is key. Martinez is an atrocious manager who has wasted a great squad and not having top-level fullback is not enough to counter how bad they have performed. When even Southgate is showing you up then you know it's bad. At least he recognizes the importance of pragmatism.
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I'm not denying he has been bad. All I'm saying is that it is not cut and dry that they win trophies with a different manager. They have ridiculous quality in certain areas, coupled with almost Championship level quality in others.

Although, to be frank, they weren't particularly bad against France, just up against a better team altogether (and one which did not have the mental drama that accompanied it this time around with Benzema, Rabiot and Mbappe). Against Italy in Euros, however, their aging defence just gave way. Insigne should never have had that much space, that was shocking. That being said, Italy pretty much controlled the game - and Chiellini man-marking Lukaku almost completely took him out of the game.
 
Sorry Thiago mate, but I'm all behind Italy tonight.

It would be an absolute travesty if the Tapas Southgate coaching Spain made the final. (And God help us if he did and faced the actual Southgate. What a 'thriller' that would be ..... 🤦🏼‍♂️.).

So I'm all behind the clear best coach in the tournament and the absolutely seminal work he's doing in completely changing the Italian National team and dragging them kicking and screaming finally into the 21st Century, saving us from that proper unpalatable prospect.

Forza 🇮🇹
 
Why in the world would you allow Morata to take a penalty?! Guy has the mentality of a paper towel
 
Fair play to Italy got outplayed but Italian teams can hold on like that. Spain have some class young players though Olmo and Pedri especially
 
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