England Thread

[tigertailz001]

we tried to sign Sturridge before the season started so its not like he was brought in January for Gerrard's sake

Carrick has 4 assists, Gerrard has 9... Carrick stats are more 'sensible' in terms of pass completion and ball retention

How many wasted passes does Xavi, Ineista, Pirlo, Alonso, Scholes, Mata, Oscar, Hazard & maybe Wiltshire etc make in a game?. Plus when are playing International football you need ball retention to keep possession as captain and a experience central midfielder with over one hundred caps for England he should dictating this and not give ball away with long killer balls that don't always meet players he trying to pass to.

 

[epic terrorist]

It's taken a worrying amount of time for people to realise this.

to be fair, there weren't many options since the FA wanted someone English.

we haven't been a positive team since glenn hoddle was in charge so I'm not having it that Roy is too negative when we have been a negative team since Hoddle was sacked. McLaren, Erikssen, capello all played more or less the same way only thing that changed was that we went from 442 to 451/4231 whatever you want to call it. keegan tried to be positive but royally ****** up so its not like Roy just turned up and decided to shut up shop and play defensively we have been doing it for years

 

[LFCMarshall]

How many wasted passes does Xavi, Ineista, Pirlo, Alonso, Scholes, Mata, Oscar, Hazard & maybe Wiltshire etc make in a game?. Plus when are playing International football you need ball retention to keep possession as captain and a experience central midfielder with over one hundred caps for England he should dictating this and not give ball away with long killer balls that don't always meet players he trying to pass to.

Overreaction to one poor game

he has drove England on constantly in the past and despite a change of style this season is still providing vital goals and assists at club level

 

[tigertailz001]

Overreaction to one poor game

he has drove England on constantly in the past and despite a change of style this season is still providing vital goals and assists at club level

In past Steven Gerrard has drove club & county, But word is PAST!. It's not just Gerrard it's most English players full stop that keep ball that's why no current English international player is playing abroad because they tactically and technically weak compared with our foreign counterparts, plus that's why English buy foreign players to play in their midfield!. English players are full spirit, determination, possibly strength in the air and pace that only gets you so far until you play technical and tactical teams that out play you. In the build to tonight's game Montenegro head coach said that England are a long ball team and we prove him right!.

 

[LFCMarshall]

In past Steven Gerrard has drove club & county, But word is PAST!. It's not just Gerrard it's most English players full stop that keep ball that's why no current English international player is playing abroad because they tactically and technically weak compared with our foreign counterparts, plus that's why English buy foreign players to play in their midfield!. English players are full spirit, determination, possibly strength in the air and pace that only gets you so far until you play technical and tactical teams that out play you. In the build to tonight's game Montenegro head coach said that England are a long ball team and we prove him right!.

Past?, apart from still doing it this season?

Only Spain and Germany have completed more passes than England in the world cup qualifying groups? first half we dominated the game, kept the ball and passed it around very well

2nd half we were just poor in every area, we move on.

 

[fuelledbypassion]

we tried to sign Sturridge before the season started so its not like he was brought in January for Gerrard's sake

Carrick has 4 assists, Gerrard has 9... Carrick stats are more 'sensible' in terms of pass completion and ball retention

Carrick has played a lot of very probing forward passes this season, much more so than ever before. This is probably an adaption of his game due to the absence of Scholes next to him, and Cleverley being more of a runner than a playmaker. Assists really show little importance when it comes to the role that they play, especially when Gerrard takes set pieces too - it can distort a picture of performance entirely.

I'm a big Gerrard fan and always have been, probably because I'm English and he has that die hard determination that we're fond of. It's just frustrating to watch when he tries the long passes all the time. Perhaps he's trying to hard, perhaps the team aren't providng enough passing options, perhaps he makes poor decisions too often? Whatever the reason, it won't work at international level as the games rarely get stretched like they do in England.

 

[LFCMarshall]

Carrick has played a lot of very probing forward passes this season, much more so than ever before. This is probably an adaption of his game due to the absence of Scholes next to him, and Cleverley being more of a runner than a playmaker. Assists really show little importance when it comes to the role that they play, especially when Gerrard takes set pieces too - it can distort a picture of performance entirely.

I'm a big Gerrard fan and always have been, probably because I'm English and he has that die hard determination that we're fond of. It's just frustrating to watch when he tries the long passes all the time. Perhaps he's trying to hard, perhaps the team aren't providng enough passing options, perhaps he makes poor decisions too often? Whatever the reason, it won't work at international level as the games rarely get stretched like they do in England.

Oh im not saying Carrick is not good at what he is doing btw, improved massively this year

Gerrard is what Gerrard is, when he has a good game people will be back on the bandwagon

Its the fickle nature of the majority of football fans

 

[tigertailz001]

Past?, apart from still doing it this season?

Only Spain and Germany have completed more passes than England in the world cup qualifying groups? first half we dominated the game, kept the ball and passed it around very well

2nd half we were just poor in every area, we move on.

Steven Gerrard is a good all round midfielder who can tackle, pass, assist, score and is a leader. But he not best English tackler in midfield (Scott Parker best maybe ?), He not best English passer or assister in midfield (Michael Carrick or Jack Wiltshere best maybe ?), He not best English goalscorer in midfield (Frank Lampard best maybe ?), Yes he might be best English captain in midfield. And I will just throw in a few Former English internationals in there David Beckham is a better set piece taker and still is, plus Paul Scholes long range passes is better than Steven Gerrard. So is Steven Gerrard overrated ?.

 

[LFCMarshall]

Steven Gerrard is a good all round midfielder who can tackle, pass, assist, score and is a leader. But he not best English tackler in midfield (Scott Parker best maybe ?), He not best English passer or assister in midfield (Michael Carrick or Jack Wiltshere best maybe ?), He not best English goalscorer in midfield (Frank Lampard best maybe ?), Yes he might be best English captain in midfield. And I will just throw in a few Former English internationals in there David Beckham is a better set piece taker and still is, plus Paul Scholes long range passes is better than Steven Gerrard. So is Steven Gerrard overrated ?.

Simple answer. No

doesn't need any explanation, and its quite amusing your even asking the question

 

[tigertailz001]

Past?, apart from still doing it this season?

Only Spain and Germany have completed more passes than England in the world cup qualifying groups? first half we dominated the game, kept the ball and passed it around very well

2nd half we were just poor in every area, we move on.

Yes we had good first half, but wouldn't say we pass them off the field with possession football and more to the point Montenegro didn't play very well in first half. And we only scored from a set piece, I can't remember their keeper making a lot saves in the first half.

 

[Tyton]

Heh, Gerrard is arguably peak product of the whole all-around-midfielder thing England had going on for better part of last 20 years.

But if you think he can seriously compete with world class mids who actually specialize in their roles, you should rewatch England-Italy from the Euro and witness Pirlo making Gerrard his *****. Its not that Gerrard's lacks purely technical abilities, but he cant read the game nearly as good and has a problem with adapting to different tactical approaches. Can't expect guy his age to suddenly learn all that, either. These things should be drilled since when he was 15, not start when he turned 30.

 

[Mike.]

Carrick has played a lot of very probing forward passes this season, much more so than ever before. This is probably an adaption of his game due to the absence of Scholes next to him, and Cleverley being more of a runner than a playmaker. Assists really show little importance when it comes to the role that they play, especially when Gerrard takes set pieces too - it can distort a picture of performance entirely.

I'm a big Gerrard fan and always have been, probably because I'm English and he has that die hard determination that we're fond of. It's just frustrating to watch when he tries the long passes all the time. Perhaps he's trying to hard, perhaps the team aren't providng enough passing options, perhaps he makes poor decisions too often? Whatever the reason, it won't work at international level as the games rarely get stretched like they do in England.

Not just a lot. The most of any player in the league with 782. Thats 110 more than any other mid. He makes the fewest backwards passes at 7% and over half his passes are in the oppos half. He only has 4 assist to gerrards 9 because he doesn't take set pieces. A better comparison is always key passes. Gerrard is more creative bit takes much less care with the ball when doing so. That said both were awful second half for different reasons.

gerrard tries too hard with the ball at times and that can be worse than not doing enough, if you are just giving the ball away and inviting more pressure, especially at international level.

 

[Vanjagl]

Rodgers wanted to preserve Gerrard for longer, Hodgson is taking a similar stance, by playing him deeper it allows his career to be extended or so thats the thinking. 1

Again people saying it is not working, top of the assist chart, 8 league goals.... nobody was questioning him for the past month or so, and one game and people suddenly start talking again 2

People have bad days, today was Gerrard's turn, although there were not many good performances from England as a whole 3

1) I'm sorry, playing for your nation is different than playing for the club. If you're not good enough to play for nation, then you don't play in first team. England should use Gerrard better. He's still very good attacking mid, still posses great physical attributes, and he's real thread from outside the box with his long shots. Lets spin backwards in history. England had Gerrard over 10 years playing as playmaker. He rarely was on the same level as he was playing as attacking mid in Liverpool. Don't get me wrong, he can do decent job as playmaker, but there was always better options than him. For me, Gerrard doesn't have place in first 11 anymore. To be good rotation option, yes, because he still can offer something to England.

2) Those people who's questioning Gerrard are idiots. He's wonderful player (just bit my tongue there). He has great eye for goal, but most of his assists came from set pieces, not from open play.

3) Yes, Gerrard had bad day, but so did Carrick and Cleverley. Is it Roy's fault or is it players, who know.

 

[Gaston]

1) I'm sorry, playing for your nation is different than playing for the club. If you're not good enough to play for nation, then you don't play in first team. England should use Gerrard better. He's still very good attacking mid, still posses great physical attributes, and he's real thread from outside the box with his long shots. Lets spin backwards in history. England had Gerrard over 10 years playing as playmaker. He rarely was on the same level as he was playing as attacking mid in Liverpool. Don't get me wrong, he can do decent job as playmaker, but there was always better options than him. For me, Gerrard doesn't have place in first 11 anymore. To be good rotation option, yes, because he still can offer something to England.

2) Those people who's questioning Gerrard are idiots. He's wonderful player (just bit my tongue there). He has great eye for goal, but most of his assists came from set pieces, not from open play.

3) Yes, Gerrard had bad day, but so did Carrick and Cleverley. Is it Roy's fault or is it players, who know.

Gerrard has always been a dynamic playmaker who can start lightening-quick attacks, in the mould of Kaká, rather than someone like Pirlo, who sits deeper and dictates the tempo of the game. However, I think the days when he can run for 90 minutes are over, and he should be utilised in a deeper role.

If that means he doesn't get in the team, so be it. Sometimes a great player has to be left out for the team's good, but I'm struggling to see great alternatives for England. Yes, Cleverley and Carrick have been mentioned, but I think we need someone more attacking to compliment the two (if we are playing 4-5-1), and I don't think it should be Lampard. Lampard has always been a consistent goalscorer, but I don't know if he is good enough as an all-rounder to play the attacking midfield role. Who would you say should take Gerrard's place in the team?

 

[Mike.]

Gerrard has always been a dynamic playmaker who can start lightening-quick attacks, in the mould of Kaká, rather than someone like Pirlo, who sits deeper and dictates the tempo of the game. However, I think the days when he can run for 90 minutes are over, and he should be utilised in a deeper role.

If that means he doesn't get in the team, so be it. Sometimes a great player has to be left out for the team's good, but I'm struggling to see great alternatives for England. Yes, Cleverley and Carrick have been mentioned, but I think we need someone more attacking to compliment the two (if we are playing 4-5-1), and I don't think it should be Lampard. Lampard has always been a consistent goalscorer, but I don't know if he is good enough as an all-rounder to play the attacking midfield role. Who would you say should take Gerrard's place in the team?

Gerrard has never been a playmaker. His trademark was as an attacking mid so advanced he as basically a second striker, very different to someone like Kaka.

We play 4-2-3-1 anyway. The natural fit is Wilshere but he is consistently injured. I would have played Rooney as a Treq and picked Lambert ahead of him. Use Carrick and Cleverley as a means of constant possession and supply.

If anything Gerrard needs to take more care with the ball where ever he plays, he gives it away too often.

 

[LFCMarshall]

1) I'm sorry, playing for your nation is different than playing for the club. If you're not good enough to play for nation, then you don't play in first team. England should use Gerrard better. He's still very good attacking mid, still posses great physical attributes, and he's real thread from outside the box with his long shots. Lets spin backwards in history. England had Gerrard over 10 years playing as playmaker. He rarely was on the same level as he was playing as attacking mid in Liverpool. Don't get me wrong, he can do decent job as playmaker, but there was always better options than him. For me, Gerrard doesn't have place in first 11 anymore. To be good rotation option, yes, because he still can offer something to England.

2) Those people who's questioning Gerrard are idiots. He's wonderful player (just bit my tongue there). He has great eye for goal, but most of his assists came from set pieces, not from open play.

3) Yes, Gerrard had bad day, but so did Carrick and Cleverley. Is it Roy's fault or is it players, who know.

I agree,

on a personal stance the repositioning of Gerrard is good for LFC if it does preserve his career by a few years, everyone has bad games but his drive, determination and class when it comes to LFC cannot be questioned

However, in terms of England it seems he cannot play in a deeper role as effectively.. weather this is due to different players, set ups, who knows but from an England point of view, Gerrard seems needed further forward

With Rooney there it wont happen..

 

[Mike.]

I agree,

on a personal stance the repositioning of Gerrard is good for LFC if it does preserve his career by a few years, everyone has bad games but his drive, determination and class when it comes to LFC cannot be questioned

However, in terms of England he seems he cannot play in a deeper role as effectively.. weather this is due to different players, set ups, who knows but from an England point of view, Gerrard seems needed further forward

With Rooney there it wont happen..

Considering the lack of forwards, Rooney should be playing exactly where he was in the first half: lone striker. He was a complete menace.

 

[fuelledbypassion]

Gerrard has never been a playmaker. His trademark was as an attacking mid so advanced he as basically a second striker, very different to someone like Kaka.

We play 4-2-3-1 anyway. The natural fit is Wilshere but he is consistently injured. I would have played Rooney as a Treq and picked Lambert ahead of him. Use Carrick and Cleverley as a means of constant possession and supply.

If anything Gerrard needs to take more care with the ball where ever he plays, he gives it away too often.

Really? You'd go with Lambert? I fear we would play far too many direct passes and bypass Rooney too often.

I personally would rather Oxlade in the hole and a fluid 3 of Welbeck, Rooney and Oxlade-Chamberlain. Wilshere is key but has been very unlucky with injuries and the timing of those affecting his England career

 

[Mike.]

Really? You'd go with Lambert? I fear we would play far too many direct passes and bypass Rooney too often.

I personally would rather Oxlade in the hole and a fluid 3 of Welbeck, Rooney and Oxlade-Chamberlain. Wilshere is key but has been very unlucky with injuries and the timing of those affecting his England career

That wouldnt be Lamberts fault to be fair and to be honest, neither Carrick and Cleverley are wasteful with the ball.

Oxlade should be playing more for club and country. Welbeck has a great game, but isnt clinical enough to be a primary threat.

 

[Gaston]

Gerrard has never been a playmaker. His trademark was as an attacking mid so advanced he as basically a second striker, very different to someone like Kaka.

We play 4-2-3-1 anyway. The natural fit is Wilshere but he is consistently injured. I would have played Rooney as a Treq and picked Lambert ahead of him. Use Carrick and Cleverley as a means of constant possession and supply.

If anything Gerrard needs to take more care with the ball where ever he plays, he gives it away too often.

I may be wrong, but I'm sure that's where Kaká often played? At least for A.C. Milan?