England Thread

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Mike. said:
That wouldnt be Lamberts fault to be fair and to be honest, neither Carrick and Cleverley are wasteful with the ball.

Oxlade should be playing more for club and country. Welbeck has a great game, but isnt clinical enough to be a primary threat.
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No not his fault at all, and I was really referring to the distribution from defence - I don't think Lescott, Smalling, Johnson or, to a lesser extent, Cole, are particularly brave or composed on the ball.
 
And on Ox, I don't think we'll ever develop enough to compete with the best if we are too afraid to throw in our ball players in big games. Milner is a great workhorse and a versatile, valuable squad player but it's too negative to use him every time.
 
fuelledbypassion said:
No not his fault at all, and I was really referring to the distribution from defence - I don't think Lescott, Smalling, Johnson or, to a lesser extent, Cole, are particularly brave or composed on the ball.
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No, they are really not. And its that area that we miss Rio. I cant think of one ball playing defender.
 
fuelledbypassion said:
And on Ox, I don't think we'll ever develop enough to compete with the best if we are too afraid to throw in our ball players in big games. Milner is a great workhorse and a versatile, valuable squad player but it's too negative to use him every time.
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Couldnt agree more.
 
Mike. said:
No, they are really not. And its that area that we miss Rio. I cant think of one ball playing defender.
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Gary Cahill's pretty good technically, and is rising in my estimation with each passing game where he single-handedly holds Chelsea's defence together.

Dunno why we're discussing Gerrard here, he's not exactly the problem. We're playing the right players in the wrong roles - ex. Gerrard and Cleverley - and occasionally the wrong players at the wrong time - ex. Milner in a game we think we should go out and win or if Lampard started.

From the players we have the moment, not including injured, I'd pick the following squad:

Hart, Foster, 3rd goalie; take your pick

Baines, Cole
Walker, Johnson
Smalling, Taylor (pacey cover defender)
Lescott, Caulker (imposing stopper)

Carrick, Westwood (yeah, I'm biased, but so what? Ashley Westwood's been excellent this season, and is pretty much a Carrick clone)
Cleverley, Osman (the runner in midfield, to complement Carrick)
Rooney, Gerrard (Rooney shouldn't be relied upon to work hard defensively, but he also shouldn't need to)

Young, Welbeck (depressingly few options here)
Oxlade, Milner (a bit better here. Oxlade should start)

Defoe, Lambert, Sturridge (horses for courses. Defoe is in good form and should probably be the main man, but Lambert is a useful option and Sturridge has been playing less selfishly of late)

Throw in whatever other uninjured players we have and it would look decent. Tilt our current 4-3-3 and make it a 4-2-3-1, give Rooney/Gerrard license to roam, and use the resources we have. If we're 2-0 up, bring on Westwood for Gerrard and make Cleverley the highest man up in a 4-3-3, with Rooney up top or on the wing. If we're losing, change things up, perhaps try Lambert to see if we can disrupt their line. This **** ain't rocket science, but Hodgson is increasingly making it look as if we're asking him to build a rocket to ******* Mars.

Edit: Also, Milner might be a decent fit for Cleverley's runner role. He plays in the centre far too little.
 
The big issue here is that with a side like England, you need to be tactically flexible, and quick thinking to make the most of your limited options (Relative to top sides)

Hodgson is far too cautious atm.

And I very much agree re Milner in the centre, was saying the same in Andorra.
 
Mike. said:
The big issue here is that with a side like England, you need to be tactically flexible, and quick thinking to make the most of your limited options (Relative to top sides)

Hodgson is far too cautious atm.

And I very much agree re Milner in the centre, was saying the same in Andorra.
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Part of the reason for Steve Clarke's success this year has been based around solid, simple ideas - a good pivot in deep midfield, a 4-4-1-1/4-2-3-1 cross depending on the opposition, and willing runners up front - but often having the balls to change it up if it doesn't work. Part of the reason Lukaku has thrived for West Brom is because he's been introduced into an environment that is perfect for him, with the opposition sitting deep and West Brom getting support to him. Hodgson should take note.

Milner needs to come home and play in the centre again :(
 
Vanjagl said:
2) Those people who's questioning Gerrard are idiots. He's wonderful player (just bit my tongue there). He has great eye for goal, but most of his assists came from set pieces, not from open play.
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Who said he isn't? Gerrard has always been very talented and versatile, he can shoot, pass, take set pieces, provide aerial threat and run like a madman. Its just that his decision making process seems to have time travelled from 1995. If he's going to play deeper, it takes a bit more to be good in that position nowadays than to constantly hammer long balls.
 
You complain about the lack of players on the wings. But. What about Dyer, Sterling and Lennon? Surly they deserve to play due to amazing form, vision, speed and potential.
 
Gaston said:
Gerrard has always been a dynamic playmaker who can start lightening-quick attacks, in the mould of Kaká, rather than someone like Pirlo, who sits deeper and dictates the tempo of the game. However, I think the days when he can run for 90 minutes are over, and he should be utilised in a deeper role. 1

If that means he doesn't get in the team, so be it. Sometimes a great player has to be left out for the team's good, but I'm struggling to see great alternatives for England. Yes, Cleverley and Carrick have been mentioned, but I think we need someone more attacking to compliment the two (if we are playing 4-5-1), and I don't think it should be Lampard. Lampard has always been a consistent goalscorer, but I don't know if he is good enough as an all-rounder to play the attacking midfield role. Who would you say should take Gerrard's place in the team? 2
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1) I would agree on this, that Kaka's and Gerrard's best positon is Attacking mid. Both of them were never playmakers. It's OK to preserve Gerrard if you're club, just like United did with Giggs. But if you can't give 100% for nation, then you should come of bench for impact.

2) Problem with Lamps are similar to Gerrard. He is still a player who can have a great game, but only if you use him right. Lampard should be used in more defensive type of games, just for pure attacking threat, because your striker would be isolated most of the times. But in this England, just like Gerrard, he seems not to fit. If I had to choose, I would much rather have Lampard in CM role, then Gerrard. But in terms of AM role, few are better than Gerrard.
Who should take his place? Hmm, as I see two CM spots are Clev's and Carrick's, obvious choice would be Wilshere ( what happened to him anyway?). Now, Rooney could play there as well, but then you don't have quality striker. Welbeck is a work horse, but he isn't very clinical like Rooney. Solution might be to play Ash Young behind Rooney, Welbeck on one, and Chambo on other side. Not to mention that wingers and attacking mid are versatile and can swap places anytime. Problem? Non of those three are creative enough, and whole creating process would be left for Carrick and Cleverley. I don't quite know, there's many potential solutions, one of them is playing Gerrard as AMC, and if he cant play full 90, sub him and bring somebody else.


LFCMarshall said:
I agree,

on a personal stance the repositioning of Gerrard is good for LFC if it does preserve his career by a few years, everyone has bad games but his drive, determination and class when it comes to LFC cannot be questioned

However, in terms of England it seems he cannot play in a deeper role as effectively.. weather this is due to different players, set ups, who knows but from an England point of view, Gerrard seems needed further forward

With Rooney there it wont happen..
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Tbf, would love to see Gerrard playing behind Rooney. Just make him stay out of that deeper role, somethings wrong and he can't perform as effective as on AM. Like I said above, England lack another great striker, Bent, Defoe, Welbeck are not that good, so playing Rooney as striker seems logical.
 
Cai1234 said:
You complain about the lack of players on the wings. But. What about Dyer, Sterling and Lennon? Surly they deserve to play due to amazing form, vision, speed and potential.
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Sterling needs to get more game time for Liverpool, I feel. Throwing him in at the deep end would do him no favours.

Lennon is injured, but if he was fit he'd be an automatic pick, to the point where I'd move Ox to the left to accommodate him. Dyer's an interesting shout, and I might be inclined to give him a shot, but his recent form has left a little to be desired. I wouldn't pick him ahead of Lennon or Walcott, certainly.

Vanjagl said:
1) I would agree on this, that Kaka's and Gerrard's best positon is Attacking mid. Both of them were never playmakers. It's OK to preserve Gerrard if you're club, just like United did with Giggs. But if you can't give 100% for nation, then you should come of bench for impact.
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Think you'd be hard-pressed to say Kaka isn't a playmaker. A wonderful, wonderful player at his peak.
 
Cai1234 said:
You complain about the lack of players on the wings. But. What about Dyer, Sterling and Lennon? Surly they deserve to play due to amazing form, vision, speed and potential.
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They're good players, but I'd say Dyer and Lennon are too one-dimensional, and Sterling to a lesser extent. All three are great wingers for their clubs and on good form, but they lack creativity, which England really need right now. They're all traditional wingers and I'd say Dyer and Sterling aren't quite good enough for England just yet.

We're lacking advanced playmakers at the moment, with Carrick probably our best passer and perhaps most creative player too, but he plays very deep. Wilshere can play the role, yes, but his injury problems are a big concern and he may not be able to stay away from the treatment room long enough to cement a regular place in the line-up.

But why not try this (yes, Walcott's only just found his feet up front, but we should give him a go):

Walcott
Young - Rooney - Ox/Lennon

A good combination of creativity and pace, with Rooney and Young fairly creative and good passers; and the pace of Walcott will scare defenders, even if he's not in clinical form.
 
GodCubed said:
Think you'd be hard-pressed to say Kaka isn't a playmaker. A wonderful, wonderful player at his peak.
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Was Kaka' a playmaker in Milan? He was playing as trequartista, a world class player who was the difference between Milan and its opponents.
 
Vanjagl said:
Was Kaka' a playmaker in Milan? He was playing as trequartista, a world class player who was the difference between Milan and its opponents.
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They're pretty much synonyms, those words. Kaka was undeniably a playmaker, or trequartista, or what have you.
 
He was quite brilliant to watch, elegant and devastating on the ball.
 
No one seems to like the idea of Welbeck up front, but I think he is probably our best option there, allowing Rooney to play AMC. He's obviously not the finished article, but he has an exceptional understanding with Rooney, and offers more than defoe and Bent. Not to mention his blistering pace would stretch defences.
 
Milan's mid with Kaka, Pirlo , Gatusso and whats his face Dutch guy, was completely mental. Not sure whats going on with Kaka now though - its like he faded after most teams switched to 4-2-3-1. Only really shined with the whole late 90s/early 2000 wingless formation.
 
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