Few basic tactic creation suggestions (for newbies)

[Mike.]

When people start to have a need to insult others to make their point, they do not have a point at all. Both statements I posted are yours, each statement contradicts the other: 1) player stick to his role no matter the fluidity; 2) Better use more structured fluidity to make the player stick to his role. Yeah, and I'm the idiot lol.

The Guide to Football Manager itself sustains my point, but I guess the Guide or who ever wrote it must also be idiots.

The guide to football manager isnt written by wwfan or anyone at SI and contains a fair bit of erroneous information.

You've backed yourself on a guide which isnt even backed by SI...

 

[Igneos79]

I have another question. I took Leicester team for a spin a few hours ago, set them to play 4-4-2 very fluid attacking, but they kept on playing as if I set counter mentality. My defenders did direct balls and my forwards shorter. So why did this happen? Is counter the only way you can play a 4-4-2 or something else?

 

[Mike.]

You'd better not respond because when you are not making contradictions, you are putting words in my hand that I never wrote. A quite known and still low strategy. As for the bold part, for once you quoted something correct: The Guide to Football Manager states what I posted before, I quoted and put it here. Want to behave like a 5 old, fine, it suits you.

You also did day that roles become irrelevant: http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/foot...eation-suggestions-newbies-2.html#post2557241

WJ is actually correct. I know because he's saying is coming from the people behind the the ME and the TC.

Hint: WJ knows a lot more about the game than his white name suggests, i also suggest you cut out the petty digs that saw you get banned from SI, because I'll be more than happy to enforce the rules here. I have very little patience with ill mannered people on this forum right now.

 

[callamity]

I have another question. I took Leicester team for a spin a few hours ago, set them to play 4-4-2 very fluid attacking, but they kept on playing as if I set counter mentality. My defenders did direct balls and my forwards shorter. So why did this happen? Is counter the only way you can play a 4-4-2 or something else?

Could be alot of different things mate, without getting a tactic fully fluid and playing roughly 10 games in competition your team will not be fully gelled and might not understand fully how to play together.
It could be player roles, or attributes such as decision making, composure etc

 

[Igneos79]

Could be alot of different things mate, without getting a tactic fully fluid and playing roughly 10 games in competition your team will not be fully gelled and might not understand fully how to play together.
It could be player roles, or attributes such as decision making, composure etc

This isn't the first time this happened to me. It is as if some of my old settings from previous game got into the new one. I wonder if deleting cache folder would help? I wasn't fully fluid, but I did play over 10 games in the prem, and they shouldn't be that poor of players to not understand what is asked of them. Especially when I tick on play out of defence and play with attack mentality. I'm running the latest patch. 3.0...

 

[callamity]

This isn't the first time this happened to me. It is as if some of my old settings from previous game got into the new one. I wonder if deleting cache folder would help? I wasn't fully fluid, but I did play over 10 games in the prem, and they shouldn't be that poor of players to not understand what is asked of them. Especially when I tick on play out of defence and play with attack mentality. I'm running the latest patch. 3.0...

what are your player roles?

 

[Igneos79]

what are your player roles?

all roaming ones....I went with the sticky guide on this forum when looking to pick them. A treq and defensive forward defend as strikers, roaming playmaker and box to box in the middle, wide playmakers wide, complete wingbacks, BPDs and SKa. Since I don't have a proper holding mid in 4-4-2, maybe it must be a less agressive mentality involved then?

 

[Igneos79]

You also did day that roles become irrelevant: http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/foot...eation-suggestions-newbies-2.html#post2557241

WJ is actually correct. I know because he's saying is coming from the people behind the the ME and the TC.

Hint: WJ knows a lot more about the game than his white name suggests, i also suggest you cut out the petty digs that saw you get banned from SI, because I'll be more than happy to enforce the rules here. I have very little patience with ill mannered people on this forum right now.

So you think a more agressive mentality works with shoot on sight?

 

[callamity]

all roaming ones....I went with the sticky guide on this forum when looking to pick them. A treq and defensive forward defend as strikers, roaming playmaker and box to box in the middle, wide playmakers wide, complete wingbacks, BPDs and SKa. Since I don't have a proper holding mid in 4-4-2, maybe it must be a less agressive mentality involved then?

Ok.

Ball playing defenders look to play more direct/risky passes. Through balls etc. This is Could be one of the reasons they are playing more direct.

I think ( and I could be wrong) that a defensive forward will work like a target man and by choosing this role your team will be more inclined to play long balls up to him. This could be another reason they are playing more direct from the back.

 

[Igneos79]

Ok.

Ball playing defenders look to play more direct/risky passes. Through balls etc. This is Could be one of the reasons they are playing more direct.

I think ( and I could be wrong) that a defensive forward will work like a target man and by choosing this role your team will be more inclined to play long balls up to him. This could be another reason they are playing more direct from the back.

Of course! That's actually brilliant, thank you. I've read somewhere Bayern in 2012 looked like a counterattacking side even though they didn't play counter. And this is the reason. Thank you!

 

[Mike.]

Of course! That's actually brilliant, thank you. I've read somewhere Bayern in 2012 looked like a counterattacking side even though they didn't play counter. And this is the reason. Thank you!

The mentalities are a lot more flexible than given credit for. For example, if you were building classic Barcelona you would build from a counter mentality, something many people cant get their heads around.

 

[Igneos79]

The mentalities are a lot more flexible than given credit for. For example, if you were building classic Barcelona you would build from a counter mentality, something many people cant get their heads around.

yes, they played counter under some managers. It wasn't important to just keep possession, it was important to counter aswell. But the definition of tiki taka is based on standard mentality. "It is neither attacking, nor defensive". I think I did a pretty good job of replicating it with my "standard" tactic.

 

[miguelalves]

The guide to football manager isnt written by wwfan or anyone at SI and contains a fair bit of erroneous information.

You've backed yourself on a guide which isnt even backed by SI...

Ok, a Guide so frequently pointed has erroneous information. Fine!
Maybe this guy is more accurate:

As you can see, each step reduces the level of specialisation. At Very Rigid, you have five plus different jobs, Rigid four responsibilities, Balanced three duties, Fluid two focuses, Very Fluid one method. In Very Rigid philosophies, you expect players to stick to their job description, so can assign multiple specialist roles. In Very Fluid philosophies, you expect everybody to do a bit of everything, which means specialist roles are redundant.

 

[WJ]

Ok, a Guide so frequently pointed has erroneous information. Fine!
Maybe this guy is more accurate:

As you can see, each step reduces the level of specialisation. At Very Rigid, you have five plus different jobs, Rigid four responsibilities, Balanced three duties, Fluid two focuses, Very Fluid one method. In Very Rigid philosophies, you expect players to stick to their job description, so can assign multiple specialist roles. In Very Fluid philosophies, you expect everybody to do a bit of everything, which means specialist roles are redundant.

Actually, he is more accurate.

He said SPECIALIST roles are redundant : unnecessary or not needed. That's completely correct, of course. Wwfan chooses his words well and he's definitely not wrong.

You said ROLES are irrelevant in fluid systems, which is untrue.

Can you see the difference?

 

[miguelalves]

Actually, he is more accurate.

He said SPECIALIST roles are redundant : unnecessary or not needed. That's completely correct, of course. Wwfan chooses his words well and he's definitely not wrong.

You said ROLES are irrelevant in fluid systems, which is untrue.

Can you see the difference?

I said SPECIALIST roles, SPECIALIST get it, stop putting things in people's hand they haven't wrote.

But if the manager goes with fluid team shapes, then the specialist role becomes irrelevant.

 

[WJ]

Never said he goes rogue, the role just becomes irrelevant, it's just not enhanced due to the fluid system.

I'll quote you then. Define how a role becomes "irrelevant".

 

[callamity]

I said SPECIALIST roles, SPECIALIST get it, stop putting things in people's hand they haven't wrote.

But if the manager goes with fluid team shapes, then the specialist role becomes irrelevant.

I'll quote you then. Define how a role becomes "irrelevant".

In the interest of putting this to bed.

Roles will never be irrelevant. Full stop. End of story.

Specialist roles become less needed in more fluid ssystems, however if you were to create a very fluid tactic with 5 specialist roles, these instructions would still be followed.

 

[miguelalves]

I'll quote you then. Define how a role becomes "irrelevant".

Right, now it's clear you like to quote what interests you and leave the other quotes. I don't need you quoting me, I did that my self with the previous post, but that you missed it right ?! Right there, my statement specialist role becomes irrelevant and then, because I was writing about SPECIALIST roles, I stated "Never said he goes rogue, the role just becomes irrelevant, it's just not enhanced due to the fluid system". You should be ashame of your self.

 

[WJ]

In the interest of putting this to bed.

Roles will never be irrelevant. Full stop. End of story.

Specialist roles become less needed in more fluid ssystems, however if you were to create a very fluid tactic with 5 specialist roles, these instructions would still be followed.

Precisely.

 

[Mike.]

yes, they played counter under some managers. It wasn't important to just keep possession, it was important to counter aswell. But the definition of tiki taka is based on standard mentality. "It is neither attacking, nor defensive". I think I did a pretty good job of replicating it with my "standard" tactic.

No you misunderstand. They used "counter" mentality, but it wasn't anything to do with counter attacking play. It's all about what the risk of that mentality represents. Then you add in a few more instructions.