FM15 Post your Frustrations/Raaaage

[Vanjagl]

You're generating 40+ shots regularly yeah. That's an issue, but like I said it's both yours and the game's. I regularly get 25-35 shots which is still high.

In quite a few of the screenshots the other team managed much more than 2-3 shots although I see now you said FIRST 2-3 shots which is much less of an issue. The AI managers can and should improve their tactics and decision making though. That'll mean more shots in general for them.

But with a shot count as high as yours I can only assume a lot of them are of poor quality, looking at the scores.

I can't remember last time I had less than 15 shots in one game. Even when I lose hard I usually have more shots than my opponent. Something is very wrong here. Those 2-3 shots were exaggeration, though I had plenty of games where opps score from their first shot on goal, but we all have those and they are somewhat rare.

Games where opponent have less chances then my team, and they somehow manage to score more than me with weaker players annoys me. Why it annoys me? It's happening regular basis.

We can't tell which shot is good quality and which one is bad, because 3d presentation is flawed and it doesn't represent whats happening in match engine. Only thing I have to work with is woodwork and CCC.

But after all, it's a game. It has to have flaws. As long as I'm having fun, occasional raging at my screen is acceptable.

 

[Death Ball]

Funny how this never happens the other way around. The AI always gets 'lucky'. Bullshit, I tell you.

I've given this to the AI thorough the versions. You may find a few screens showing it in my FM10 and 11 Burgos saves, in my FM12 Torino. In later versions I made it but I don't remember uploading the screenshots. You just need to decide on performing that gameplan, something I'm sure you don't do ever because you likely go possession shots and that's why you don't see it in your favour. Unless, that is, you get very lucky with getting it after having your *** handed over with your same game plan and still win. And because you don't go for that, you never get that. With Torino I made that constantly, in Europe in knockout rounds (the only time I didn't go for that I paid with a loss), in Italy in Cup final and against Juventus, Palermo or Napoli.

Having the ball more than the opponent and getting to shoot many times is just a gameplan among many others.

I'll post a few examples from previous versions. I have them in the current, but I don't know where I put them and I'm not currently in the mood to search them. I manage the smaller team, considering my squad is no match, so I decide for the gameplan of letting them come, close the space, making them shoot in bad positions where my defence has good control of them and then go on the counter attack seeking to take one of a handful of shots. I don't want possession, I don't care for it, I just want to be tight back and a handful of times a player reaches the opposition area is all I seek:

As MKDons:

As Crystal Palace:

I have several more, but they're in folders of past stories or general FM screenshots that have a ton of images and hunting for the ones in which I do that would take too long.

 

[WJ]

I can't remember last time I had less than 15 shots in one game. Even when I lose hard I usually have more shots than my opponent. Something is very wrong here. Those 2-3 shots were exaggeration, though I had plenty of games where opps score from their first shot on goal, but we all have those and they are somewhat rare.

Games where opponent have less chances then my team, and they somehow manage to score more than me with weaker players annoys me. Why it annoys me? It's happening regular basis.

We can't tell which shot is good quality and which one is bad, because 3d presentation is flawed and it doesn't represent whats happening in match engine. Only thing I have to work with is woodwork and CCC.

But after all, it's a game. It has to have flaws. As long as I'm having fun, occasional raging at my screen is acceptable.

The reason you don't get fewer than 15 shots per game is because you're setting up better tactics than the AI. Their role and duty especially duty selection isn't the best. They do change to odd mentalities during games, but that's relatively rare.

If you set up a genuinely defensive or purely counter tactic, you'll get less than 15 shots too.

Still, even with these flaws, teams can and should sometimes beat you while having fewer chances/shots. Happens IRL more often than you think.

If you were trying to show that teams beat you often with fewer shots, you did a bad job of doing that.

You lost the Burnley game but you had a man sent off and only 47% possession.

You lost the QPR game where they scored first just before half-time and you couldn't break them down because I'll bet you they went very defensive. Again, you "dominated" but only had 47% possession. That's poor.

The Southampton game was similar. They scored in the 8th minute at Old Trafford. They will have parked as many buses as possible. It seems you struggled to break them down again.

You seem to have a problem scoring against defensive teams. I mean, the Millwall game saw 48 shots over 120 mins and you scored a single goal. Of those 48 shots, only 18 were on target which is poor.

Now I don't know how your other games went so I can't say too much about your tactic in general. You do seem to need a plan B, especially against very defensive teams.

 

[Vanjagl]

The reason you don't get fewer than 15 shots per game is because you're setting up better tactics than the AI. Their role and duty especially duty selection isn't the best. They do change to odd mentalities during games, but that's relatively rare.

If you set up a genuinely defensive or purely counter tactic, you'll get less than 15 shots too.

Still, even with these flaws, teams can and should sometimes beat you while having fewer chances/shots. Happens IRL more often than you think.

If you were trying to show that teams beat you often with fewer shots, you did a bad job of doing that.

You lost the Burnley game but you had a man sent off and only 47% possession.

You lost the QPR game where they scored first just before half-time and you couldn't break them down because I'll bet you they went very defensive. Again, you "dominated" but only had 47% possession. That's poor.

The Southampton game was similar. They scored in the 8th minute at Old Trafford. They will have parked as many buses as possible. It seems you struggled to break them down again.

You seem to have a problem scoring against defensive teams. I mean, the Millwall game saw 48 shots over 120 mins and you scored a single goal. Of those 48 shots, only 18 were on target which is poor.

Now I don't know how your other games went so I can't say too much about your tactic in general. You do seem to need a plan B, especially against very defensive teams.

I have no idea where are you going with this. I'm not asking excuses why I lost. I'm glad that I lose games. Otherwise game would be boring.
Also, I don't have problems against any team, regardless how they set up. I usually get hokey scores, but that's another problem.

 

[WJ]

I have no idea where are you going with this.

Uhm, this: ??

Games where opponent have less chances then my team, and they somehow manage to score more than me with weaker players annoys me. Why it annoys me? It's happening regular basis.

That's why I explained; or tried to. Regular basis meant two games out of the ones you posted. That's hardly regular. I was merely highlighting the fact that you have problems against packed defences while also conceding where the AI needs improving.

We can't tell which shot is good quality and which one is bad, because 3d presentation is flawed and it doesn't represent whats happening in match engine. Only thing I have to work with is woodwork and CCC.

I got a little caught up and I didn't even address this. You can't tell what's good and what isn't. I don't have that issue. I have no idea where you get that the 3D is that flawed that you cannot tell what's a good chance and what isn't. If you're solely going by woodwork numbers and CCCs (which is a fairly well-known fact that the game creates CCCs when it isn't one) then you will be frustrated by some games and unnecessarily so.

There's always the Tactical Discussion area and I'd be happy to look at these issues if you can provide at least your tactical setup for the game + the PKM of it.

 

[Vanjagl]

Uhm, this: ??

Uhh, I didn't want it to sound like I'm raging or something, just found it funny and frustrating to have those kind of games. So I'm feeling a little bit bad that you're trying to bring more sense into me, since I really don't need it. So sorry man if I mislead you.

That's why I explained; or tried to. Regular basis meant two games out of the ones you posted. That's hardly regular. I was merely highlighting the fact that you have problems against packed defences while also conceding where the AI needs improving.

Eh, poor choice of words then from me then.

I got a little caught up and I didn't even address this. You can't tell what's good and what isn't. I don't have that issue. I have no idea where you get that the 3D is that flawed that you cannot tell what's a good chance and what isn't. If you're solely going by woodwork numbers and CCCs (which is a fairly well-known fact that the game creates CCCs when it isn't one) then you will be frustrated by some games and unnecessarily so.

How can I tell it's not accurate? Well, keep attention to the text and to the match engine. It's not synced the best. It was far worse in the beginning of the FM15 though.

There's always the Tactical Discussion area and I'd be happy to look at these issues if you can provide at least your tactical setup for the game + the PKM of it.

Well, if you want it, I can give it to you.

 

[WJ]

Uhh, I didn't want it to sound like I'm raging or something, just found it funny and frustrating to have those kind of games. So I'm feeling a little bit bad that you're trying to bring more sense into me, since I really don't need it. So sorry man if I mislead you.



Eh, poor choice of words then from me then.


How can I tell it's not accurate? Well, keep attention to the text and to the match engine. It's not synced the best. It was far worse in the beginning of the FM15 though.



Well, if you want it, I can give it to you.

All good. Simple misunderstanding then.

The text does a decent job of describing whether it was a difficult chance or miscue but it can be wrong at times where it'll count a CCCs and tell you it was an easy chance when it was a shot under pressure at a tight angle. As you've seen, common sense tells you the chance wasn't easy. That's the issue with purely looking at stats. You'll see the CCC only but having not watched the match, you won't have seen the miss or read the text. That's why fully detailed stats are nice, but always in conjunction with watching the actual match.

 

[Vanjagl]

All good. Simple misunderstanding then.

The text does a decent job of describing whether it was a difficult chance or miscue but it can be wrong at times where it'll count a CCCs and tell you it was an easy chance when it was a shot under pressure at a tight angle. As you've seen, common sense tells you the chance wasn't easy. That's the issue with purely looking at stats. You'll see the CCC only but having not watched the match, you won't have seen the miss or read the text. That's why fully detailed stats are nice, but always in conjunction with watching the actual match.

Well you see, problem with 3d match presentation is - it's not accurate. It's never been and it probably will never be. Because it would take to make a million of small animations to match how detailed match engine is. And that's simply not practical. Text is much more accurate than 3d. How many times you see your player going one on one with the keeper and game does not record that as CCC? How many times you see 'how did he manage to miss that' when there's 3 players around your player, and your player is shooting from dead angle? Small things like that makes 3d not accurate. If you can't trust 3d, and you certainly can't trust how match went based on stats alone, well then you will get frustrated from times to times.

 

[WJ]

Well you see, problem with 3d match presentation is - it's not accurate. It's never been and it probably will never be. Because it would take to make a million of small animations to match how detailed match engine is. And that's simply not practical. Text is much more accurate than 3d. How many times you see your player going one on one with the keeper and game does not record that as CCC? How many times you see 'how did he manage to miss that' when there's 3 players around your player, and your player is shooting from dead angle? Small things like that makes 3d not accurate. If you can't trust 3d, and you certainly can't trust how match went based on stats alone, well then you will get frustrated from times to times.

No, but don't look at the 3D in isolation. The 3D combined with the text is what you need. I almost never look at stats. I couldn't care less about possession percentage or number of CCCs. I just don't care about it, because I trust my eyes more. I watch a match and I want to see the text match what I see.

You're completely correct that sometimes it doesn't match. That's a part of the game that isn't perfect. In cases like that, I've learned to trust my own judgement and the overwhelming majority of the time I am correct in my assessment as I'm sure you are/would be too.

I mostly trust the 3D representation. For a 2nd opinion (that should match the 3D, but doesn't always), I refer to the text commentary.

I've seen complaints on here about creating 6 CCCs and not scoring any. When I've looked at the match, the game counted shots as CCCs when they were blocked by defenders! In that case, and many others, what I saw was correct.

 

[Vanjagl]

But that's the problem. You're trusting something that's not accurate. Stats are far more accurate if look at them just as stats. What FM sees as CCC I have no idea, but in my head that's something that should have been a goal in about 50% of the cases at least. But that's probably not true as well ( not probably, it's not true, i'm making those numbers up). But that's far off the original point that game needs to do better job against human player. Having 25 shots per game is way to high.

 

[WJ]

But that's the problem. You're trusting something that's not accurate. Stats are far more accurate if look at them just as stats. What FM sees as CCC I have no idea, but in my head that's something that should have been a goal in about 50% of the cases at least. But that's probably not true as well ( not probably, it's not true, i'm making those numbers up). But that's far off the original point that game needs to do better job against human player. Having 25 shots per game is way to high.

You just said you see one on ones not counted as CCCs and shots in a crowded box counted as CCCs. That's exactly the reason why CCCs shouldn't be trusted as a stat. Why are you arguing for it?

I agree that AI managers need to improve. They've had work done for FM15 and there's obviously more work needed.

 

[Sinnott99]

I don't have problem with this happening every now and then, but when you have 10 games per season where you have over 50 shots and only score goal or two, and your opponent score from first 2-3 shots, I call that a bullshit.

Personally i have not had this problem that many times. Maximum 4? at a stretch

 

[Vanjagl]

You just said you see one on ones not counted as CCCs and shots in a crowded box counted as CCCs. That's exactly the reason why CCCs shouldn't be trusted as a stat. Why are you arguing for it?

I agree that AI managers need to improve. They've had work done for FM15 and there's obviously more work needed.

I'm really not. I said stats aren't reliable as well. Statistic shows lots of stuff but hides the most important things. Why do people then get mad when they see 50 shots and they drew a game? It's because they saw in 3d that their player missed bunch of 1 on 1s that weren't 1 on 1s. Both things are flawed.

 

[Vanjagl]

Personally i have not had this problem that many times. Maximum 4? at a stretch

I said it later, those numbers aren't true. It's less than that, but still happens every now and then. Still, it's something that shouldn't happen. How many times in last 2 years can Bayern ( using it because they are probably the best team in last 2 years) had 20+ shots per game and they didn't win? Now here we are talking about even more shots.

 

[WJ]

I'm really not. I said stats aren't reliable as well. Statistic shows lots of stuff but hides the most important things. Why do people then get mad when they see 50 shots and they drew a game? It's because they saw in 3d that their player missed bunch of 1 on 1s that weren't 1 on 1s. Both things are flawed.

I know it's an example, but if they were 1 v 1s in 3D, that's what they were. For you to have 50 shots and a bunch of them, they'd have to be terribly rushed in a packed box though. That's what people don't see when they look at stats.

 

[Vanjagl]

I know it's an example, but if they were 1 v 1s in 3D, that's what they were. For you to have 50 shots and a bunch of them, they'd have to be terribly rushed in a packed box though. That's what people don't see when they look at stats.

It's fine to have that kind of mindset, it really is. But deep down inside me I would still know 3d is a dirty liar

 

[WJ]

It's fine to have that kind of mindset, it really is. But deep down inside me I would still know 3d is a dirty liar

If you have nothing better to do, prove it.

 

[Vanjagl]

If you have nothing better to do, prove it.

I was always a gentleman, I don't want to crush girls dream

(read it as: I have nothing concrete except some little things like those inaccurate and not synced text/stats with 3d. But that should be enough).

 

[MarcOvermars]

It is 2019. I have a player on contract for 1.4 million per year, signed until 2022. His agent demands a new deal for him. I agree to talk, and the agent demands 5.6 million per year. So they want me to just quadruple his wages, three years in advance of the end of his contract. That's just ridiculous! I would have understood anywhere from 2-3 million, but 5.6 is excessive. The top earner at the club makes 4.0 million, and this player is nowhere near my best player.

 

[kewlwarez]

"Hello, I'm a potential staff member. My defence and attack coaching are solid 20s, but I really really want to be a scout even though I couldn't tell Wayne Rooney apart from Emile Heskey, so I get really, really angry if you ask me for a coaching position and refuse to talk to you".

Honestly the amount of potential staff members who want to be something they're clearly unsuited at yet have brilliant stats for other roles is ridic.