Football Manager 2015 FAQ and Myth Debunking

[GodCubed]

This rigidity should be more flexible

Wot

 

[wkdsoul]

This rigidity should be more flexible

If it stays like that for over an hour, see your doctor.

 

[miguelalves]

The tactical rigidity not allowing some tweaks on the roles chosen. Any role has a mentality associated (determined by the more offensive or defensive mentality of the team). Choosing another role because the one we want has some PI unavailable and adapting that role is not the same, because the player will have always a different mentality.

 

[WJ]

The tactical rigidity not allowing some tweaks on the roles chosen. Any role has a mentality associated (determined by the more offensive or defensive mentality of the team). Choosing another role because the one we want has some PI unavailable and adapting that role is not the same, because the player will have always a different mentality.

Mentality is affected by Duty too. If a PI is unavailable, it means choosing that PI will go against what the role is.\

Are you referring to specific roles? I'd be interested to know which roles you think have differing mentalities and how you know that, since we can't see the sliders.

 

[miguelalves]

Mentality is affected by Duty too. If a PI is unavailable, it means choosing that PI will go against what the role is.\

Are you referring to specific roles? I'd be interested to know which roles you think have differing mentalities and how you know that, since we can't see the sliders.

We can't see sliders but it's logic different roles to give a different mentality to the player (and, of course, duties). Example: with wb with an attack duty or a cwb it's not possible to dribble less. Ok, fine, I can choose a support duty, but with this duty the player will have a different mentality and this affects the player performance by the whole.

 

[WJ]

We can't see sliders but it's logic different roles to give a different mentality to the player (and, of course, duties). Example: with wb with an attack duty or a cwb it's not possible to dribble less. Ok, fine, I can choose a support duty, but with this duty the player will have a different mentality and this affects the player performance by the whole.

Have you read the description for a Wing Back Attack?

 

[miguelalves]

Have you read the description for a Wing Back Attack?

I've read all descriptions.
There must be some logic behind the game, including TI, PI, roles, duties, obviously.

 

[apvmoreira]

We can't see sliders but it's logic different roles to give a different mentality to the player (and, of course, duties). Example: with wb with an attack duty or a cwb it's not possible to dribble less. Ok, fine, I can choose a support duty, but with this duty the player will have a different mentality and this affects the player performance by the whole.

I see your point, and i think that we need to adjust to what roles can give instead of asking for more different things.

Sometimes i wanted also to have some instructions that cannot be usable and i just accept it. The level of detail that PI would have with what you asked would create so many variables that it wouldn't be possible to control any tactic, imo.

 

[WJ]

I've read all descriptions.
There must be some logic behind the game, including TI, PI, roles, duties, obviously.

Riiight.

Wing Back Attack: With an Attack duty, the wing back aims to overlap down the flank to provide wide support for attacks, run at his man and get crosses in from the byline.

Complete Wing Back Attack: The CWB loves to attack, and whilst he is capable of occupying his defensive duties, his natural inclination is to affect the game in the opposition's defensive third.

If you want to have less dribbling, you're going to change what those roles are. There's the logic.

 

[miguelalves]

I see your point, and i think that we need to adjust to what roles can give instead of asking for more different things.

Sometimes i wanted also to have some instructions that cannot be usable and i just accept it. The level of detail that PI would have with what you asked would create so many variables that it wouldn't be possible to control any tactic, imo.

Yeah, that might be the case, but even so in FM14 that wb with an attack duty I could tell him to dribble less Well, I still have ppm.

 

[miguelalves]

Riiight.

Wing Back Attack: With an Attack duty, the wing back aims to overlap down the flank to provide wide support for attacks, run at his man and get crosses in from the byline.

Complete Wing Back Attack: The CWB loves to attack, and whilst he is capable of occupying his defensive duties, his natural inclination is to affect the game in the opposition's defensive third.

If you want to have less dribbling, you're going to change what those roles are. There's the logic.

Riiiight

You do know that players can run with and with no ball ? right ? and that overlaps can be made with and with no ball ? right ? Dribbling has nothing to do with this particular role, the player can overlap, love to attack and affect the opposition defensive third without being mandatory to dribble frequently. It's logic yes, but a potatoe logic.

 

[WJ]

Riiiight

You do know that players can run with and with no ball ? right ? and that overlaps can be made with and with no ball ? right ? Dribbling has nothing to do with this particular role, the player can overlap, love to attack and affect the opposition defensive third without being mandatory to dribble frequently. It's logic yes, but a potatoe logic.

RUN AT HIS MAN. That's with the ball. No matter how you want to twist it, that's what it means.

WTF has overlaps with or without the ball have to do with anything?

The complete wingback is quite clearly a very aggressive player. He's a Wing Back Attack on Red Bull. He has Roam From Position, Get Further Forward, Dribble More Often, Cross From Byline active. It's clear what he does. He won't just dribble, obviously. He has the creative freedom to make his own decisions, but mainly it is to bomb forward, overlap and find space and then cross the ball. The role is what it is.

Here's the million dollar/pound/cookie question: What does "love to attack" mean to you? Are you telling me that he's going to bomb forward and overlap without the ball, then when he gets the ball that far forward he's going to.... what exactly? What can he do that far forward and that wide with the ball? Run... check. Cross... check.

By the way, that's not all he does. I use the role a lot and while he does get forward with and without the ball, he does pass the ball to a teammate if he's out of options to run or cross. The role is doing exactly what it should.

 

[miguelalves]

Not questioning if the role does or does not what it should, questioning that the role shouldn't be rigid in the options. Maybe you like to think football is about roles and duties (there might be space in FM for what ? more 10 ? 20 roles ?), well, surprise, it's not, at least it's a lot more than roles.

 

[WJ]

Not questioning if the role does or does not what it should, questioning that the role shouldn't be rigid in the options. Maybe you like to think football is about roles and duties (there might be space in FM for what ? more 10 ? 20 roles ?), well, surprise, it's not, at least it's a lot more than roles.

Now we're just going in circles. Or you are. The fact remains (and this was discussed at length) that PIs that will alter the role so that it doesn't perform what the role is supposed to be about, should be unavailable.

 

[apvmoreira]

PIs that will alter the role so that it doesn't perform what the role is supposed to be about, should be unavailable.

Depends. If you see football in England you have a point of view, if you are from Brazil or Italy you have another.

FM is a english/british based game, and if you are, which i think you are, british, you understand what what PIs should the role have, but don't take me wrong, or don't think that im insulting you, but we may think that for that specific role, dribbling less should be an option, as english football is not the base for all in the world, even if SI used it as a base.

 

[Blarry]

Now we're just going in circles. Or you are. The fact remains (and this was discussed at length) that PIs that will alter the role so that it doesn't perform what the role is supposed to be about, should be unavailable.

Now to get this straight: are player roles solely determined by their used PIs, or is there a unique AI script behind each role? If the former is the case, then why isn't there a 'generic' role with all PIs appropriate for the particular position on the field available, so that one could define player behaviour more freely?

 

[WJ]

Depends. If you see football in England you have a point of view, if you are from Brazil or Italy you have another.

FM is a english/british based game, and if you are, which i think you are, british, you understand what what PIs should the role have, but don't take me wrong, or don't think that im insulting you, but we may think that for that specific role, dribbling less should be an option, as english football is not the base for all in the world, even if SI used it as a base.

I'm not even close to British. I can't help that my English is good

It doesn't really matter whether the game is British or Martian. I'm not even all that clued up on roles. Before FM15, I had no clue what a Raumdeuter was. Previously, I didn't really know what an Enganche was either. I read the descriptions of the roles, see whether their PIs match the description and whether the role plays out on the pitch like it is described. That's what matters. You may have a different opinion on what a role is, but the description is there and the PIs help you understand the role more. That's all we need.

Even if it's a British based game, it doesn't really matter. Roles added like the Inverted Wing Back (yes, I know it isn't working yet!), Libero, Regista, Trequartista, Raumdeuter etc aren't British roles. SI compile a **** of a lot of stats and surprisingly, they don't just check England.

Don't worry, I don't feel insulted. I don't mind a healthy debate.

 

[WJ]

Now to get this straight: are player roles solely determined by their used PIs, or is there a unique AI script behind each role? If the former is the case, then why isn't there a 'generic' role with all PIs appropriate for the particular position on the field available, so that one could define player behaviour more freely?

Good question. Every role is programmed on it's own. That's partly the reason why FM is moving to a role based system and why we can't manipulate sliders to make a Target Man Support play exactly like a Poacher.

We can clearly see this unique coding when you look at the Half back, for instance. The way only that role drops into defence and the defenders automatically split wide. Playmakers move around a lot more and unique to playmaking roles. There are probably more I can't think of right now, but those are the obvious ones. This will be expanded on, I'm sure, in the future.

There are generic or generalist roles. Fullbacks, Defensive Midfielders, Central Midfielders, Wide Midfielders, Deep-Laying Forwards and Advanced Forwards are all very generic roles and have quite a bit of freedom as far as setting PIs.

Hope that answers your questions.

 

[Blarry]

Good question. Every role is programmed on it's own. That's partly the reason why FM is moving to a role based system and why we can't manipulate sliders to make a Target Man Support play exactly like a Poacher.

Yeah, and that exactly is the most frustrating aspect of tactics creation at the moment, imho. This is limiting the creativity of the people who spend days and even more nights playing, trying to tinker their tactics to their liking.

Of course SI -had- to draw a line somewhere after FM12. Back then, I recall playing wide defenders as attacking Liberos, and that weird-*** combo worked a treat for what I wanted my wide defenders to do. Who was going to predict, debug and fix this? And while getting rid of sliders surely was the right thing to do at the right time, for me, it still doesn't offer up enough varying player behaviour patterns on some crucial positions. I'm so sick of buying AM(L) players with good defensive stats and work rate and then watching them stand around while my full back's being overloaded, because the AM(L) position is treated as a wide striker w/o defensive responsibilities instead of a ****** crucial part of a 4-man midfield row.

(That last part was probably more frustration/rage-thread worthy, but whatever.)

 

[WJ]

Yeah, and that exactly is the most frustrating aspect of tactics creation at the moment, imho. This is limiting the creativity of the people who spend days and even more nights playing, trying to tinker their tactics to their liking.

Of course SI -had- to draw a line somewhere after FM12. Back then, I recall playing wide defenders as attacking Liberos, and that weird-*** combo worked a treat for what I wanted my wide defenders to do. Who was going to predict, debug and fix this? And while getting rid of sliders surely was the right thing to do at the right time, for me, it still doesn't offer up enough varying player behaviour patterns on some crucial positions. I'm so sick of buying AM(L) players with good defensive stats and work rate and then watching them stand around while my full back's being overloaded, because the AM(L) position is treated as a wide striker w/o defensive responsibilities instead of a ****** crucial part of a 4-man midfield row.

(That last part was probably more frustration/rage-thread worthy, but whatever.)

Not really. You can still be quite creative. More this year than last year as well.

The AML vs ML thing seems to be a hot topic right now. An AML on support duty will track back quite a bit. It depends on Work Rate too. Don't know if you saw this earlier_:

Yeah. I am having decent success using a Wide Midfielder -Attack at ML. He's asked to Cut Inside, Dribble More and Cross Less Often.

I lose potency on the counter, but gain defensive stability because he drops deeper.