Irish Republican Dissident Group releases coded Bomb warning for London

[Shay Given]

Republicans spin whatever they can,

The 'real' IRA posted a statement in N.I a few weeks ago about the visit where a fat man in some woolly green suit with a beret and a ski mask...lol...said that the Queen was a war criminal and deserved to be punished and anyone who follows her (Population of UK I'm guessing he meant) is liable and coherent with the actions of the 'crown' and the army.

I didnt see this but it sound like the RIRA or the CIRA. They have very little support among Republicans mainly due to killing who ever they can etc. So there statement is a true reflection of what must of Irish republican community want.

So basically its complex but some Irish people ramble on about how superior their country is since the independence and the IRA has the aim of driving the UK and its sympathisers out of Ireland. I mean historically it is a catholic vs protestant debate, but the truth is Northern Ireland is in a far healthier position financially, economically and politically than ROI during the recession. The ROI has got no banking system anymore, its credit rating is ridiculously low, it has no economy except export/import and manufacturing with no financial sector to fall back on since the ROI property boom ended abruptly a couple of years ago. So the ROI housing market, financial market, economy is on its knees and the IRA want to start this **** about independent Ireland and how it would be better?

It is a worldwide recession, yes we have been hit harder by it than most but we will recover as will the rest. An independent Ireland would be better, not just for economic means.

Talking out of their *rse, they're a bunch of middle aged men now who can't take the truth and Ireland maybe needs to realise its on its knees and who bailed them out? Was it America? Was it Europe? (partly) NO it was Britain, our tax money went to bail out YOUR economy, your wonderfully independent economy yet now your all coming on TV threatening to blow the queen up@ Threatening attacks on us? They need to realise what century we are in, they justify killing 'sympathisers' in NI with the fact that during the early 20th century under British rule some war crimes were committed? I'm sure we have a history of war crimes in India from the colonial rule but you do not see them holding a grudge.

We are all coming on the TV? Pretty sure you just seen the RIRA on the TV. The majority of Irish people arent in a possition to blow the Queen up. A lot dont want to. Yet we are all threatening it :S
Yes the UK have put a lot of money into bailing Ireland out, im sick of people going on about this! The UK did it as much for themselves as they did for us. Ireland is where a lot of its exports go, so if Ireland cant by then England will lose out on sale. They will get there money back (+ some) over time. It is not as if the Uk just decided we will give the Irish a couple of Billion as they are struggling. It is also not the same people that accepted the loan that want to kill the Queen. The upper class got us into the financial difficulties. The upper class then accepted the Uks loan.
What does India have to do with this. Just because they are so forgetful doesnt mean everyone is. War criminals should be punished, I dont see how you can argue otherwise.

I am technically in favour of ditching the monarchy in England since it has no purpose, the Queen is a head of state but she has no legislative powers other than rubber stamping the odd naming/title event/handing out medals/ceremonial duties. The people in charge of the Military are the MOD and the cabinet anyone who thinks the Queen is in charge is frankly...Stupid/Born in the 19th century. The monarchy has had no powers since WW1 and I think it was King George who devolved more powers to the PM and now they hold no purpose except ceremonial/foreign relations

Whilst the Queen doesnt get involved much anymore she could if she choose to. She signs off everything, if she doesnt agree then she doesnt need to sign it. So she is still responsible for her actions.

Just pees me off when I keep seeing Irish people going on the TV about reconciliation and how they still hold a grudge and how they are so well off financially and even heard a few saying they beat us at Sport all the time...haha. Irish people should realise the only reason their country has not defaulted on its IMF loans/other creditors is because the UK contributed a HUGE bailout package.

As part of the EU we where entitled to loans to help us recover. We arnt the first that has to reley on loans and wont be the last. Why most you keep banging on about this anyway? Does it make you feel good that you country loaned my country some money? The majority of people will get money loaned to them over the course of there life. Most creditors dont bang on about it as it is part of day to day life.

P.s We do beat England at sports.

Just getting that off my chest, ungrateful sods, the reality is we have a financial sector/economy twice the size of Irelands (even bigger post recession) and they are all going on TV saying we are horrible people. Notice the distinct lack of Sinn Fein appearing for interviews/comments on the Queens visit because they know their views are dated and make no sense in the modern world.
Glad thats off my chest (A)

My daddy is bigger than your daddy.
Sinn Fein dont want to store tension, so wanting your country to be united makes no sense?

 

[Jamie.]

I didnt see this but it sound like the RIRA or the CIRA. They have very little support among Republicans mainly due to killing who ever they can etc. So there statement is a true reflection of what must of Irish republican community want.


It is a worldwide recession, yes we have been hit harder by it than most but we will recover as will the rest. An independent Ireland would be better, not just for economic means.


We are all coming on the TV? Pretty sure you just seen the RIRA on the TV. The majority of Irish people arent in a possition to blow the Queen up. A lot dont want to. Yet we are all threatening it :S
Yes the UK have put a lot of money into bailing Ireland out, im sick of people going on about this! The UK did it as much for themselves as they did for us. Ireland is where a lot of its exports go, so if Ireland cant by then England will lose out on sale. They will get there money back (+ some) over time. It is not as if the Uk just decided we will give the Irish a couple of Billion as they are struggling. It is also not the same people that accepted the loan that want to kill the Queen. The upper class got us into the financial difficulties. The upper class then accepted the Uks loan.
What does India have to do with this. Just because they are so forgetful doesnt mean everyone is. War criminals should be punished, I dont see how you can argue otherwise.


Whilst the Queen doesnt get involved much anymore she could if she choose to. She signs off everything, if she doesnt agree then she doesnt need to sign it. So she is still responsible for her actions.


As part of the EU we where entitled to loans to help us recover. We arnt the first that has to reley on loans and wont be the last. Why most you keep banging on about this anyway? Does it make you feel good that you country loaned my country some money? The majority of people will get money loaned to them over the course of there life. Most creditors dont bang on about it as it is part of day to day life.

P.s We do beat England at sports.


My daddy is bigger than your daddy.
Sinn Fein dont want to store tension, so wanting your country to be united makes no sense?

Sinn Fein still hold links to the RIRA and other extremist groups, like it or not the argument is IRA are terrorists and the UK soldiers involved are classed as 'invaders' and terrorists on the other side of the cordon in ROI. Simple answer if I was PM would be call a referendum in NI and see what they pick, they are getting devolution of police powers and sooner or later they will get budgetary powers devolved from them. Might sound thickle but the minority left of the RIRA etc who want a united Ireland why the **** don't they do to live in ROI instead of causing trouble?

Simple answers to simple questions but why do you all bang on about how we are the bad guys? We were the bad guys in alot of colonial countries but they don't try to kill our queen.
As part of the EU we were entitled to not give you as much as we did?
Beat us at sport once in cricket (Embarrassing), a few times in rugby union, Gaelic Football...thats about it.

I'm not slating Ireland I just hate the disrespect they show the UK, I'm not a fan of the Queen but when we bail you out the least we expect is a handshake between the Queen and Gerry Adams (What a site lol) and maybe not try and blow our queen up?

I like things the way they are, ROI wanted independence as a sovereign state and it got it and NI majority are happy being with the UK so until a massive public opinion shift how about the republicans concentrate on paying back loans and osterity cuts rather than a century old 'war' with us?

That's just the point I make is basically why can't you just let it go Sinn Fein?

If the Republicans want independence...They can just go live in ROI no harm done right?
So after everythings settled why are they still calling for a united country?

I'm going back to the eighties...I vacant the debate floor...

Referendum on independence in NI is the easiest way to sort the entire argument out tbh

 

[Shay Given]

I like you and realise that the Ireland is not something that you would think about every day, so I wont laugh at some of your points to much

Sinn Fein still hold links to the RIRA and other extremist groups, like it or not the argument is IRA are terrorists and the UK soldiers involved are classed as 'invaders' and terrorists on the other side of the cordon in ROI.

Sinn Fein are from the PIRA who split from the CIRA and RIRA. The party that that represents the RIRA is the Repubian Sinn Fein which is a break away from normal Sinn Fein. Most of the RIRA and CIRA detest the fact that SinnFein is even willing to sit in Stormount and try and solve it with politics.
One man terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

Simple answer if I was PM would be call a referendum in NI and see what they pick, they are getting devolution of police powers and sooner or later they will get budgetary powers devolved from them.

The problem with that is you are asking a part of Ireland as im sure only North of Ireland will be involved in the referendum? More people in the North would vote to stay as part of the Uk. (judging by the recent voting in which the DUP got more votes than Sinn Fein) So the North of Ireland would be part of the Uk? But if that happened then my constituency would mainly vote for a united Ireland. (judging by the recent elections) So surly we are allowed to be part of ROI as the majority of our part wanted to just as the majority of the Northern part didnt want to. The only way it should be done is if the majority of Ireland as a whole voted.

Might sound thickle but the minority left of the RIRA etc who want a united Ireland why the **** don't they do to live in ROI instead of causing trouble?

It isnt just the RIRA that want a united Ireland. It is then and the CIRA that are currently using violent methods to get it but nearly half of the North want a United Ireland. So you are asking them all to move south? This also wouldnt solve the problem as it would be giving our country away. Next it would be move from the border counties and let them be part of the Uk?

Simple answers to simple questions but why do you all bang on about how we are the bad guys? We were the bad guys in alot of colonial countries but they don't try to kill our queen.

You just said that yous are the bad guys! The british army are bad guys to the republican community. They killed our freinds and family and invaded our country.

As part of the EU we were entitled to not give you as much as we did?

Yes, but as I said it is benifital for the Uk for Ireland to recover ASAP.

Beat us at sport once in cricket (Embarrassing), a few times in rugby union, Gaelic Football...thats about it.

NI beat you in soccer 2005. What other sports do you want? Cricket,Rugby,Football & Soccer. Thats without evn mentioning Eurovision

I'm not slating Ireland I just hate the disrespect they show the UK, I'm not a fan of the Queen but when we bail you out the least we expect is a handshake between the Queen and Gerry Adams (What a site lol) and maybe not try and blow our queen up?

Gerry Adams is not involved in the Republic which is who where bailed out. He has also never tried to blow up the Queen.

I like things the way they are, ROI wanted independence as a sovereign state and it got it and NI majority are happy being with the UK so until a massive public opinion shift how about the republicans concentrate on paying back loans and osterity cuts rather than a century old 'war' with us?

That's just the point I make is basically why can't you just let it go Sinn Fein?

RIO wanted a free Ireland, in the end some settled for just the 26 counties as they believed that they would get the other 6 back over time. This lead to a civil war between those that thought it better to accept the 26 countries for now or to fight on for the 32. As I explained above a parts of the North of Ireland wants to be part of the Uk parts want to be part of ROI.
You are asking us to give up our country?

If the Republicans want independence...They can just go live in ROI no harm done right?
So after everythings settled why are they still calling for a united country?

I'm going back to the eighties...I vacant the debate floor...

Referendum on independence in NI is the easiest way to sort the entire argument out tbh

Again you cant just tell us to give up our country and say no harm done. Or tell us to move down South, many people have lived in there homes for centuries but they should just move?

 

[Brian]

Simple answers to simple questions but why do you all bang on about how we are the bad guys? We were the bad guys in alot of colonial countries but they don't try to kill our queen.
As part of the EU we were entitled to not give you as much as we did?
Beat us at sport once in cricket (Embarrassing), a few times in rugby union, Gaelic Football...thats about it.

I'm not slating Ireland I just hate the disrespect they show the UK, I'm not a fan of the Queen but when we bail you out the least we expect is a handshake between the Queen and Gerry Adams (What a site lol) and maybe not try and blow our queen up?


That's just the point I make is basically why can't you just let it go Sinn Fein?

If the Republicans want independence...They can just go live in ROI no harm done right?
So after everythings settled why are they still calling for a united country?

We arent all trying to kill your queen and in the other colonial countries they got all their land back.
Also your argument of why cant they live in the ROI. It is because they feel NI is rightfully theirs, surely by that argument i could respond with why cant the Unionists go live in England, Scotland or Wales where they orignally came from.

I would rather having the 6 counties obv but dont feel that strongly about it. What I do feel strongly about is British people thinking they are far superior than Irish people and have a divine right to owning us. Your earlier argument about the bailout was highly flawed as you contributed a bit of the IMF fund but now you have alot of control over government policies in ireland for it. Also mainly its the countries in the EMU that bailed us out as their best interests are to keep the Euro flying unlike the Pound which is plummeting

 

[Mike.]

I wondered how long it would take before things got "edgy"

 

[Shay Given]

I wondered how long it would take before things got "edgy"

I dont think has it has gotten edgy Mike, we are simply debating. If someone is offended by anything posted then they can say so or not view it?

 

[Mike.]

I dont think has it has gotten edgy Mike, we are simply debating. If someone is offended by anything posted then they can say so or not view it?

who said anyone was offended? and debates can be edgy

 

[Shay Given]

who said anyone was offended? and debates can be edgy

Fair enough, I though you meant edgy as in borderline acceptable.

 

[Mike.]

Fair enough, I though you meant edgy as in borderline acceptable.

nah the debate is fine, i felt the first page walked rounded what people really wanted to say, this is much better in some ways

 

[Jamie.]

Nice response

To be honest if I was in charge when Ireland kicked off I would have just ditched the place for good and went off to invade/pillage another country...Maybe Iceland, I'm with them in so much as the Queen is pointless and serves no purpose but blowing people up never got anyone anywhere (ask the taliban). If its your country why does half your country (NI) like things the way they are? Republicans will never be ruled by Unionists and Loyalists and vice versa so a union is just near on impossible. A Coalition would get nowhere and anarchy would break out, the army etc that killed Irish people early 20th century are long dead and times they are a changing.

Maybe ROI and the Argentina can hold a conference and see if they fancy resurrecting 20th century colonial 'disputes' lol, if Ireland was a friend of the UK and was allied closely with us then you would probably have Nuclear capabilities but thats not going to happen in the near future. Thing that peeves me off is Americans stayed out of the entire thing just like they did in the Falklands, 2nd biggest defence budget in the world and we just get ignored and treated like kids because of maggie thatcher the milk snatcher and her Tory policies in the 80's.

Going off point but me and Gerry Adams share alot of points on British politicians/monarchy but the armed forces aren't too blame and its been a while since they were in ROI so let it lie...bejesus. We killed so many Indians/Kenyans under our colonial rule during the early-mid 20th century but they still are our friends, lets all be friends!

We arent all trying to kill your queen and in the other colonial countries they got all their land back.
Also your argument of why cant they live in the ROI. It is because they feel NI is rightfully theirs, surely by that argument i could respond with why cant the Unionists go live in England, Scotland or Wales where they orignally came from.

I would rather having the 6 counties obv but dont feel that strongly about it. What I do feel strongly about is British people thinking they are far superior than Irish people and have a divine right to owning us. Your earlier argument about the bailout was highly flawed as you contributed a bit of the IMF fund but now you have alot of control over government policies in ireland for it. Also mainly its the countries in the EMU that bailed us out as their best interests are to keep the Euro flying unlike the Pound which is plummeting

'a bit'? 7 Billion...lol

I don't want to own you but surely you can see the Irish people in NI decided long ago they didn't want to go down the route the Republicans took?

They've had 100 years to proetest/have a revolution and have not done so in masses so surely you can see your fellow irishmen want to stay where they are?

I don't want to own the ROI, last thing I want, its not our war but its better than letting the troubles in the 20th century between unionists and the Republicans fizzle into all out civil war surely you can see that was what the army was doing?
And I know how vital the Irish trading market is to the UK economy it brings in 1 BILLION pounds a week through trade- imports/exports so of course its a crucial market to the UK. The EU is an entirely different point, in theory its a great idea but the single currency to attempt to create one huge super economy was flawed the day the UK said no and kept the pound. Euro isn't flying anymore...3 Euro countries have had to have been bailed out in the past 12 months and Spain is heading that way, I don't want to control/do anything with Ireland I just wish the IRA would stop the **** they pull to get PR on their crusade for independence. If it was like the Falklands and ENGLISH people living in NI then god I could see your points entirely because that is an occupation but the people of northern ireland are...IRISH so surely they get a say in what's going on?

Anyway dinner, I shall return with a photoshop image to insert above

 

[ajt09]

Fair enough, I though you meant edgy as in borderline acceptable.

Have to admit was expecting something like a pretty fiery debate. But it's been sensible with no nasty comments or anything. Been pretty educational aswell, with some interesting points on both sides.

 

[Brian]

Nice response

To be honest if I was in charge when Ireland kicked off I would have just ditched the place for good and went off to invade/pillage another country...Maybe Iceland, I'm with them in so much as the Queen is pointless and serves no purpose but blowing people up never got anyone anywhere (ask the taliban). If its your country why does half your country (NI) like things the way they are? Republicans will never be ruled by Unionists and Loyalists and vice versa so a union is just near on impossible. A Coalition would get nowhere and anarchy would break out, the army etc that killed Irish people early 20th century are long dead and times they are a changing.

Maybe ROI and the Argentina can hold a conference and see if they fancy resurrecting 20th century colonial 'disputes' lol, if Ireland was a friend of the UK and was allied closely with us then you would probably have Nuclear capabilities but thats not going to happen in the near future. Thing that peeves me off is Americans stayed out of the entire thing just like they did in the Falklands, 2nd biggest defence budget in the world and we just get ignored and treated like kids because of maggie thatcher the milk snatcher and her Tory policies in the 80's.

Going off point but me and Gerry Adams share alot of points on British politicians/monarchy but the armed forces aren't too blame and its been a while since they were in ROI so let it lie...bejesus. We killed so many Indians/Kenyans under our colonial rule during the early-mid 20th century but they still are our friends, lets all be friends!

***GRAPHIC TO BE INSERTED HERE*** (WHEN I MAKE IT AFTER DINNER )

The point i was making is that the loyalists and Unionists were planted here and didnt live here before that. Also we are your allies and a Coalition/Power Sharing government is finally working in NI. We dont want your Nuclear capabilities as we want to stay neutral in all wars (even if we favour you and help you secretly)

 

[Shay Given]

If its your country why does half your country (NI) like things the way they are?

Nothern Ireland is just under 1/5 of Ireland as a whole and just over half of them like things the way they are (again going by the assumption that unionist party voters in the recent elections would voted to stay this way and republican party voters would vote for a united Ireland.)
1/5 = 20%
half of 20% = 10%
So 10% of Ireland as a whole would want things as they are, give or take 5%.

Republicans will never be ruled by Unionists and Loyalists and vice versa so a union is just near on impossible. A Coalition would get nowhere and anarchy would break out, the army etc that killed Irish people early 20th century are long dead and times they are a changing.

Nobody would be ruled by anyone, the Republicans would represent 90% of the people with 90% in the Dáil Éireann (irish parlamint) and the unionist 10% wold be represented by the 10% unionists in the Dáil.

Going off point but me and Gerry Adams share alot of points on British politicians/monarchy but the armed forces aren't too blame and its been a while since they were in ROI so let it lie...bejesus. We killed so many Indians/Kenyans under our colonial rule during the early-mid 20th century but they still are our friends, lets all be friends!

***GRAPHIC TO BE INSERTED HERE*** (WHEN I MAKE IT AFTER DINNER )

The British army where responsible for various war crimes, you cant say it is unreasonable that people think they should have been punished. They have left but we still havent got what they took. Just because Kenyans are so forgetting shouldnt mean we have to be. I look forward to the pic.

I don't want to own you but surely you can see the Irish people in NI decided long ago they didn't want to go down the route the Republicans took?
They've had 100 years to proetest/have a revolution and have not done so in masses so surely you can see your fellow irishmen want to stay where they are?

There have been many revolutions and protest taken place but the military power of Britain prevented a revolution from being successful. The PIRA then agreed to decommission there weapons and go into politics as Sinn Fein rather than continue with a war. The majority of republicans followed them whilst some followed the CIRA and PIRA in continuing with killing.

I don't want to own the ROI, last thing I want, its not our war but its better than letting the troubles in the 20th century between unionists and the Republicans fizzle into all out civil war surely you can see that was what the army was doing?

Initially the army was welcomed the republicans, but they started to repress the republican community.

If it was like the Falklands and ENGLISH people living in NI then god I could see your points entirely because that is an occupation but the people of northern ireland are...IRISH so surely they get a say in what's going on?

The majority of unionists in NI are from English families and where planted here during the plantation. If you called them Irish they would disagree with you.

 

[Jamie.]

Only one outcome to what you guys are saying and that is civil war...
Granted during the colonial war it was genuinely a war with civilian casualties and all the consequences of warfare BUT after ROI got its independence the republicans wanted more, they wanted the whole Ireland so they fought the Unionists and Loyalists across the country through the mid-late 20th century leaving bloodshed wherever they went (INNOCENT bloodshed) so the UK government had to sent intervention forces to keep the peace and granted the UK sided with the Unionists more but if your telling me that it was the flipside and the battle was on the streets of Dublin the Republican government wouldn't have supressed Unionists? Give me a break.

Both sides were at fault but that was last century I don't understand why they still hold the view, and as for war crimes someone should tell the IRA that bombs kill people and they are weapons of mass murder. More civilians got killed (far more) than militant unionists or British forces during the conflict so the IRA frankly has a nerve bringing up events of early 1900's and ****** sunday where 13 people lost their lives yet the IRA killed twice that in a single bomb?

An 'eye for an eye' conflict can only go on for so long before both sides are blind.

And the Republicans must be blind/bordering stupid if they think in the 21st century that Ireland will ever be united again, not my feelings but its the truth its not going to happen in our lifetime so why these middle aged men like to dress up (RIRA) rant on like its the 1950's someone should tell them who pays their benefit money/keeps them alive and more often than not its the UK government's benefit system letting these RIRA murderers live and stay in northern Ireland.

I just hate violence but every country has a history of violence, and I have to say well done lads for us not even getting started on the religious friction and how far back that goes (not really too relevant anymore since we know religion to be

Spoiler

Primative bullshit

but it was a major factor in the founding of the Republicans and loyalists. Many English fans don't truly understand why Rangers and Celtic hate each other so much but its down to the founding of the clubs and their ties to northern Ireland.
Celtic=Catholic and have a history of being ROI supportive whereas Rangers are predominantly Protestant based and hold Unionist ideology, all I was trying to say at the start of the debate is for the Republicans (IRA branch who are world known as a terrorist organisation) to bring up history about British soldiers killing citizens well thats just hypocracy especially when their country has just suffered a bailout etc I wasn't talking about the average Irish modern man on the street who has moved with the times.

Someone go start a thread on the Falklands my debating mojo is flowing, heck start a thread up on Iraq/Afghanistan I can justify those wars to anyone who thinks they are pointless and costly.
Needless to say I am politically centre left more towards liberal than the centre, Im economically a Blairite, socially a liberal/do hold beliefs on individualism and foreign affairs a Thatcherite (Strong Believer In Globalisation Economically As Well) so I find it hard to class myself lol

 

[Shay Given]

Only one outcome to what you guys are saying and that is civil war...

That is certainly not true.

Granted during the colonial war it was genuinely a war with civilian casualties and all the consequences of warfare BUT after ROI got its independence the republicans wanted more, they wanted the whole Ireland so they fought the Unionists and Loyalists across the country through the mid-late 20th century leaving bloodshed wherever they went (INNOCENT bloodshed) so the UK government had to sent intervention forces to keep the peace and granted the UK sided with the Unionists more but if your telling me that it was the flipside and the battle was on the streets of Dublin the Republican government wouldn't have supressed Unionists? Give me a break.

The republican have always wanted the whole of Ireland to be united and free. The IRA did not deliberately set kill civilians, they sometimes got killed by accident but they never set out to kill any innocent members of the public, to suggest otherwise is just false. However during ****** Sunday the British Troops fired on innocent unarmed civilians as payback for troops that had been killed. The British troop came in to act as peacekeepers but turned on the republican community.

Both sides were at fault but that was last century I don't understand why they still hold the view, and as for war crimes someone should tell the IRA that bombs kill people and they are weapons of mass murder. More civilians got killed (far more) than militant unionists or British forces during the conflict so the IRA frankly has a nerve bringing up events of early 1900's and ****** sunday where 13 people lost their lives yet the IRA killed twice that in a single bomb?

The difference again being that the innocents where not the targets.

And the Republicans must be blind/bordering stupid if they think in the 21st century that Ireland will ever be united again, not my feelings but its the truth its not going to happen in our lifetime.

Of course a united Ireland is possible.

Many English fans don't truly understand why Rangers and Celtic hate each other so much but its down to the founding of the clubs and their ties to northern Ireland.
Celtic=Catholic and have a history of being ROI supportive whereas Rangers are predominantly Protestant based and hold Unionist ideology

That is not true at all, Rangers have no link with Ireland at all. Celtic was set up by an Irish Priest to help poor Irish immigrants in Scotland. So naturally it had a lot of support from the Irish Catholics that where leaving Ireland in search for work.

all I was trying to say at the start of the debate is for the Republicans (IRA branch who are world known as a terrorist organisation) to bring up history about British soldiers killing citizens well thats just hypocracy especially when their country has just suffered a bailout etc I wasn't talking about the average Irish modern man on the street who has moved with the times.

It is not just about killing civilians but also occupying Irish land.

 

[Joel`]

So basically its complex but some Irish people ramble on about how superior their country is since the independence and the IRA has the aim of driving the UK and its sympathisers out of Ireland. I mean historically it is a catholic vs protestant debate, but the truth is Northern Ireland is in a far healthier position financially, economically and politically than ROI during the recession. The ROI has got no banking system anymore, its credit rating is ridiculously low, it has no economy except export/import and manufacturing with no financial sector to fall back on since the ROI property boom ended abruptly a couple of years ago. So the ROI housing market, financial market, economy is on its knees and the IRA want to start this **** about independent Ireland and how it would be better?

Lending money to Ireland was actually an excellent bit of business for the UK. We borrowed the money to loan them at a much lower yield rate (~10% difference), so we stand to make a substantial profit in the future from that loan, plus it kept one of our main trading partners going.

Plus the Republic have fared much worst because they joined the EU, not because they're independent. They had a massive boom for a prolonged time, and since they lost control of their monetary policy they were helpless to prevent the economy overheating. The Euro is such a dangerous proposition for any small country, it's always going to be run predominantly in favour of Germany and France.

Although I agree it is still ungrateful for people to dismiss it, even if we did have our own self-involved interests by loaning it.

 

[Jamie.]

People of Northern Ireland are not Occupying forces they are Northern Irish, they may not have as long of an ancestry as you do but they are still Irish. And bombs outside shops in Belfast is pretty intentional as far as intended targets goes isn't it?
If you make a bomb and place it in a public space/building then clearly you will kill innocent people, a united Ireland is 100 pct categorically not possible you would never achieve it through force against the British in this modern age and diplomatically the Unionist hold on NI politics is very very strong so a co alition government in a united Ireland is off the table.
Rangers created their own link with Ireland during the conflict as a way of sticking it to the predominantly republican sympathisers, most of which being Celtic fans (Catholics), and started chanting for the Unionists and Loyalists at football games during the 60s-70s. Not relevant to the conflict but an interesting point into how religion, football and rivalries can become entwined. The Linfield-Glentoran rivalry is another prime example, I mean you can hold out hope that a united Ireland is possible but I can't see how more than anything. Who holds more diplomatic power in the UN/EU?...So that bill would never get passed, there is a reason no one from the UK has been tried for war crimes at the Hague and its not through those puppy dog eyes...

I just can not accept why Ireland can't move forward and embrace the world and its neighbour, admittedly we used to pillage your towns burn your crops and massacre your rebels but still we get on well with the French and we had century long wars with them before.

Joel makes an excellent point about the loan it had to be made, no one really indulges the Euro and the EU bureaucracy and no one loathes the contribution the UK makes to the EU more than the UK citizens. Just the perception from the old school republicans is that all UK people are monarchists who love the queen and we do whatever she says, like we don't know the fact that NI is not technically its own country linguistically and historically but yet instead of talking the IRA decided to take the Al Qaeda route...

 

[Aannddyy]

Nothern Ireland is just under 1/5 of Ireland as a whole and just over half of them like things the way they are (again going by the assumption that unionist party voters in the recent elections would voted to stay this way and republican party voters would vote for a united Ireland.)
1/5 = 20%
half of 20% = 10%
So 10% of Ireland as a whole would want things as they are, give or take 5%.


Nobody would be ruled by anyone, the Republicans would represent 90% of the people with 90% in the Dáil Éireann (irish parlamint) and the unionist 10% wold be represented by the 10% unionists in the Dáil.

No offence, but that's the worst maths ever. NI is over 1/4 of the total Irish population. And you cannot base the Northern Irish peoples views on who voted what, only about 50% of the country even voted in the recent elections. The majority of Northern Ireland decline to even choose sides and it's only the minorities who actually care about the politics of the country.

It's not right to try and force 75% of the population to break away from the UK and be a part of Ireland just for a minority of the country. Why should ROI get to decide what goes on in Northern Ireland? It should be down to the people of Northern Ireland, and the only reason a bill has never been passed to "hand back" NI is because they don't want it. How long will it take till these minorities realise that in a modern society people just are not interested, how hard is it to accept them as your neighbours and just move on.

As for saying the IRA did not deliberately kill civilians? That's weak. They were recognised worldwide as a terrorist organization, you do not get that sort of recognition just by killing a few soldiers.

(P.s sorry if I sound a bit aggressive, I never intended too ;D)

 

[Irish Scouse]

People of Northern Ireland are not Occupying forces they are Northern Irish, they may not have as long of an ancestry as you do but they are still Irish. And bombs outside shops in Belfast is pretty intentional as far as intended targets goes isn't it?
If you make a bomb and place it in a public space/building then clearly you will kill innocent people, a united Ireland is 100 pct categorically not possible you would never achieve it through force against the British in this modern age and diplomatically the Unionist hold on NI politics is very very strong so a co alition government in a united Ireland is off the table.
Rangers created their own link with Ireland during the conflict as a way of sticking it to the predominantly republican sympathisers, most of which being Celtic fans (Catholics), and started chanting for the Unionists and Loyalists at football games during the 60s-70s. Not relevant to the conflict but an interesting point into how religion, football and rivalries can become entwined. The Linfield-Glentoran rivalry is another prime example, I mean you can hold out hope that a united Ireland is possible but I can't see how more than anything. Who holds more diplomatic power in the UN/EU?...So that bill would never get passed, there is a reason no one from the UK has been tried for war crimes at the Hague and its not through those puppy dog eyes...

I just can not accept why Ireland can't move forward and embrace the world and its neighbour, admittedly we used to pillage your towns burn your crops and massacre your rebels but still we get on well with the French and we had century long wars with them before.

Joel makes an excellent point about the loan it had to be made, no one really indulges the Euro and the EU bureaucracy and no one loathes the contribution the UK makes to the EU more than the UK citizens. Just the perception from the old school republicans is that all UK people are monarchists who love the queen and we do whatever she says, like we don't know the fact that NI is not technically its own country linguistically and historically but yet instead of talking the IRA decided to take the Al Qaeda route...

The majority of NI would disagree with your first statement, I live in NI and there are alot more self proclaimed British than Irish.
/
Also, NI are allowed to hold a vote for a United at any time [Agreed under Thatcher(boooo)] although at this time it is not a realistic goal. Should it be over the entire Island, it would be hugely in favour of United Ireland, hard to please both sides. Republicans and general united Ireland want-ers has been on the rise in recent years, with Sinn Fein on the rise and UUP basically falling off the map, it isn't too optimistic to hope for it in our lifetime. Coalition government would be off the table either way - bad, bad idea in that sense.

Reason I can't move past it is because there are people[soldiers (****** Sunday - Saville report for more information){Presumably still alive, and never faced punishment} walking freely who killed innocents, and don't deserve to do so. Cameron's public apology on the matter meant alot to the people of NI, and should the Queen followed suit it would have really set things at a controllable pace. The war in NI isn't going to end anytime soon, there are us who want united Ireland and those who don't.

Well, just my 2 cents to some things, no time to read over, so do point out any inaccuracies should there be any.

 

[Shay Given]

People of Northern Ireland are not Occupying forces they are Northern Irish, they may not have as long of an ancestry as you do but they are still Irish.

Ask them if they are Irish, the majority will say they are British. The PSNI are a foreign police force in all but name.

And bombs outside shops in Belfast is pretty intentional as far as intended targets goes isn't it? If you make a bomb and place it in a public space/building then clearly you will kill innocent people.

That isnt intended to kill civilians, they are taking the risk the civilians will get hurt but they are not setting out to kill innocents.

A united Ireland is 100 pct categorically not possible you would never achieve it through force against the British in this modern age and diplomatically the Unionist hold on NI politics is very very strong so a co alition government in a united Ireland is off the table.

The unionist do not have a strong hold on NI politics they narrowly won the latest election. As well as this the NI is more trouble for the UK than it is worth.

Rangers created their own link with Ireland during the conflict as a way of sticking it to the predominantly republican sympathisers, most of which being Celtic fans, and started chanting for the Unionists and Loyalists at football games during the 60s-70s. Not relevant to the conflict but an interesting point into how religion, football and rivalries can become entwined. The Linfield-Glentoran rivalry is another prime example

Rangers link with the Unionists is that Celtic support the Republicans. It is like Arsenal supporting the ****'s due to Spurs being Jewish.

I just can not accept why Ireland can't move forward and embrace the world and its neighbour, admittedly we used to pillage your towns burn your crops and massacre your rebels but still we get on well with the French and we had century long wars with them before.

Any territory you took from the French is French again, why have we not been given our country back?