Most Comprehensive Tactic Test in FM-Base History

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RobertoNUFC said:
In the meantime can you tell us which one is leading..?
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Pointswise, its still the Wrath one (150 points), but I believe that Midsomer is better due to a better goal difference and a higher domination factor in the games, and I also looked into the matches, and it seems the deviation was at max on that one (based on what I saw, having 25 to 1 in shots and losing 1-0 a couple times). Midsomer ended on 148 points, but with a GD of +126.

That being said, I re-tested my old 3-4-3 Heavy Metal tactic (16.1 or so if I remember right), and it got 151 points (and would thus have been the new leader), but it has a GD of only +100, so I wouldn't place it above these two others for 16.3.

In any case, trying to figure out which is better of two tactics that are both around 150 points and around 115-130 GD is impossible because of deviation :) So, to say that Wrath is better than Midsomer, or the other way around, is wrong in any case, as there is no proof for it.

We may have some "proof" later, when we add two more testing databases into the mix :) That would make it triple accuracy and it will then also see how they do against tougher and easier opposition.
 
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Which Midsomer Tactic? Was using Wrath with amazing success then took a new job and it doesnt seem to suit my team.
 
Mr Langvatn said:
Okay, but do you think the difference between v2 and v4 will be huge? Because the v2 got heavily butchered in the test. I don't have time to fill in everything at the moment, doing a little multitasking here, testing and correcting student papers :) I will send all the tests to Lucio, maybe he has time to fill in the spreadsheet today.
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If what you ask me is if there's a big difference between v2 and v4, the answer is no. What I try to understand is as a fan of PSG, I always play with this team, always. I'm the favorite in the league and with the amount of money I get I can pretty much target any players I want in the game. When you've players like Pogba, Verratti, Hazard, Neymar or even Messi, you would tend to approach any games with an attacking football and fluid to let their creativity freedom.

I used TFF Conqueror, TFF WRATH, or Franky's Wings of fury... This is an absolute beautiful football to watch, and I get good results too. I win the league easily, and end it with few losses. On the other hand, the AML and AMR are inside forwards and cut inside, leaving the chanel to the right and left backs, leading to those RB and LB to get the most of the assissts at the top of the league at the end of the season.
But the most important things is I don't feel as safe when I play big teams in the Champions league. I watch the game and even if I dominate the play, they get easily opportunities to score via crosses or through ball in the back of my defense...

Now, when I play with Sir Goalalot 4231 or Knap Midsomer 442, this become a bit different. First, they use wingers (left foot on left and righ foot on right), so they tend to cross the ball instead of cutting inside. Since the crossing is over powered in this Motor engine, the Wingers get they share of assissts (and not only the RB and LB), making it more realistic for me when I have my AMR or AML like Di Maria or Lucas on top of the league's assissts at the end of the season, instead of my RB or LB (Aurier, Van der Wiel, Kurzawa...).
Moreover and the most important point: I don't concead and feel ULTRA safe at the back. I often finish games with the opponent having none, 1 or 2 shots at the end of the game. I can finish the league UNDEFEATED and play the Champions league against United, City, Real Madrid or Bayern knowing that I'll rarely lose...

So why that? The only difference between those tactics is that the lattest are COUNTER ATTACK football, and you can see that playing with PSG will generally not lead you to start with this approach, but this is the most successful ones for me!!!

So your tactic test database is a good way to understand if my opinion is just a personal feeling or if it is actually backed up by your testing system.

Thanks for your dedication in the FM community.
 
Medmax said:
If what you ask me is if there's a big difference between v2 and v4, the answer is no. What I try to understand is as a fan of PSG, I always play with this team, always. I'm the favorite in the league and with the amount of money I get I can pretty much target any players I want in the game. When you've players like Pogba, Verratti, Hazard, Neymar or even Messi, you would tend to approach any games with an attacking football and fluid to let their creativity freedom.

I used TFF Conqueror, TFF WRATH, or Franky's Wings of fury... This is an absolute beautiful football to watch, and I get good results too. I win the league easily, and end it with few losses. On the other hand, the AML and AMR are inside forwards and cut inside, leaving the chanel to the right and left backs, leading to those RB and LB to get the most of the assissts at the top of the league at the end of the season.
But the most important things is I don't feel as safe when I play big teams in the Champions league. I watch the game and even if I dominate the play, they get easily opportunities to score via crosses or through ball in the back of my defense...

Now, when I play with Sir Goalalot 4231 or Knap Midsomer 442, this become a bit different. First, they use wingers (left foot on left and righ foot on right), so they tend to cross the ball instead of cutting inside. Since the crossing is over powered in this Motor engine, the Wingers get they share of assissts (and not only the RB and LB), making it more realistic for me when I have my AMR or AML like Di Maria or Lucas on top of the league's assissts at the end of the season, instead of my RB or LB (Aurier, Van der Wiel, Kurzawa...).
Moreover and the most important point: I don't concead and feel ULTRA safe at the back. I often finish games with the opponent having none, 1 or 2 shots at the end of the game. I can finish the league UNDEFEATED and play the Champions league against United, City, Real Madrid or Bayern knowing that I'll rarely lose...

So why that? The only difference between those tactics is that the lattest are COUNTER ATTACK football, and you can see that playing with PSG will generally not lead you to start with this approach, but this is the most successful ones for me!!!

So your tactic test database is a good way to understand if my opinion is just a personal feeling or if it is actually backed up by your testing system.

Thanks for your dedication in the FM community.
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Hi again :) Our current test database doesn't have a "super good" test team. With better players and a higher reputation, the style of play becomes different for all the tactics. This is because the AI will basically just hang back and go for long balls if your team has 9000 reputation and their team has 7000. We will add such a test in the future, but right now, our test gives absolutely zero information about which of these tactics are the best for a "superteam". This dimension will be added later when we have more people that can test (It's just way too much work for two people to test all these tactics in three different databases).

Another thing is, due to the big amount of random factors in a personal save, your experience with these tactics literally "means" nothing in terms of statistical analysis :P

I also have to mention one more thing, our test database has teams from all over Europe. This results in a lot of different formations. A specific test for a specific league would be more accurate for that league, but doing this for all the big leagues is too time consuming for us.
 
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Mr Langvatn said:
The "dangerous" part of sharing the test database is that it is 100% guaranteed that everyone who use it won't follow the guidelines for testing perfectly. Some will mess up in FMRTE, some will mess up something else. And then people start creating tactics, saying it got these and these points in X tactic test.

Me and the guys are working on a new fm website at the moment, I will try to think of a way to avoid this problem by then.

By the way, did you read my question about freezing players? :)
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I did it on FMRTE. As TFF TTL got only 7 teams I first heald/inspired all those players by going into the teams selections. after that I selected all of them to freeze them. So now I got all players from the 7 teams freezed every time I load the game. Also I don't tick attributes can increase. It's working good for me. Morale and fitness is maxed for all players entire season.
 
Jesseh said:
I did it on FMRTE. As TFF TTL got only 7 teams I first heald/inspired all those players by going into the teams selections. after that I selected all of them to freeze them. So now I got all players from the 7 teams freezed every time I load the game. Also I don't tick attributes can increase. It's working good for me. Morale and fitness is maxed for all players entire season.
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As I have removed all players in the world (to increase testing speed) except those in the test league, I wish FMRTE made it possible to freeze players from the window that comes up when you search for all players in the world. There are no options there. So, I'd have to go into 32 teams and freeze all for every test. That would just take up too much time... Although it would be a great addition to accuracy..
 
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Mr Langvatn said:
As I have removed all players in the world (to increase testing speed) except those in the test league, I wish FMRTE made it possible to freeze players from the window that comes up when you search for all players in the world. There are no options there. So, I'd have to go into 32 teams and freeze all for every test. That would just take up too much time... Although it would be a great addition to accuracy..
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I think it's worth it. You must do it only once, after that it will load up automatically every time you reload the base save.
 
Jesseh said:
I think it's worth it. You must do it only once, after that it will load up automatically every time you reload the base save.
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Okay, that is something I have to consider next time I make a testsave. Changing now would require that we re-test all the tactics :P
 
Danny648 said:
Mr L are we close to releasing some new results?
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I have sent the tests to Lucio on e-mail, so whenever he has the chance I guess :) I won't have a chance before tomorrow evening, so hoping he can do it :)
 
ThePav said:
Cool, did you include the OI's also The 442 looks like the more effective formation by tests through people on the thread so if you could test that when you get time be awesome

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/share-download-fm-16-tactics/357389-pavknapper-tweak.html

Great work tho lads, good to see it back up and running!!!
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Hey Pav! Normally, we don't use OI's when testing, this is also stated on the front page. But if you feel like there would be a huge performance increase, I'll do a re-test if you want. Normally though, the differences aren't that huge, but there may be some cases where they are.

This is from the front page of this thread:

"In addition, keep in mind that this test is done 100% plug and play, without any OI’s or team talks. So, some of the tactics may perform better (or worse) with OI’s. "


This is much to ensure that everyone, not only the ones who play the full game mode, can enjoy this thread.. But like I said, if you feel like the OI's are half your tactic, then let me know, and I'll do a re-test.
 
You guys are doing a great work with the testing, keep it up!

Not sure if it's possible due to nature of the test, but it would also be interesting if you could show top scorer and top assist man for each formation tested :)
 
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