Raikan007's Borussia Dortmund: Jurgen Klopp's Recreation tactic 13.3.3

floggg said:
What would be a respectable haul of league goals per season for the DLF using the standard version and 4 4 2 versions of this tactic? I use standard at home and 4 4 2 away to great effect.

I have Soldado for Spurs who got 20 league goals by Xmas but has hardly scored (if at all) since - bar one in the FA Cup against Barnsley.

I know the main role of the DLF is not always to score in this and he's already probably still for more than Lewandoski did on my Dortmund save.

I still think the three month barren spell is now verging on a transferable offence and am now starting to consider replacing him if I can get somebody tasty at the end of the league (which I'm expecting to win). Three months ago he was untouchable!
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hey bud, Soldado is no DLF mate, change him to Poacher

but I would say 25-35 goals is a good season for any striker
 
ekalkanli said:
****** tactic man not working for me at all
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Or maybe your not working the tactic? Was your team happy? Was it fluid? Have you the right players? Team talks good? etc and so on! Dont just come back and say here your tactic is **** when clearly it works good for alot of people who can use it well. Atleast you could have said like here Raikan tried your tactic unfortunately it didnt work for me.
 
Used this tactic a few times now and have had no trouble with it. Using it currently with Chelsea, and so far it has worked great.

Sent from my YP-GI1 using Tapatalk 2
 
View attachment 474898 Picked him from up Genk after my 1st season. Only rated 3.5 stars but on other saves he has been 4+. Used him as a poacher and he just knocked in a hat trick. But when I play him in the 4-2-3-1 I'm not sure what role to give him. Steve Round says he is best as an AF. I prefer to stick with the DLF or poacher but variety is always good :p
Raikan007 said:
thanks man

I have no clue who he is :p please send me a SS
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NPR16 said:
View attachment 382410 Picked him from up Genk after my 1st season. Only rated 3.5 stars but on other saves he has been 4+. Used him as a poacher and he just knocked in a hat trick. But when I play him in the 4-2-3-1 I'm not sure what role to give him. Steve Round says he is best as an AF. I prefer to stick with the DLF or poacher but variety is always good :p
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What skin is this mate ?!
Looks awesome ..
 
Raikan007 said:
just see what your players strengths are mate :) if he is quick then play AF/PO and run onto ball

if strong then TM (hold up ball) - ball to mixed

if good at passing etc DLF
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Thanks for the advice
 
LuciferM said:
Raikan, what an incredible tactic. Can't believe the difference it's made to my team. The one position I've always struggled getting working is CM and Lucas Leiva is now bossing it in the CML role. Also amazed to see what Cazorla is capable of with the right tactics. Thank you so much.

Couple of queries;

(I'm Arsenal)

Constantly being told that there's a big gap between defence and midfield - how do you solve that? (I'm using 2 x CMs, not DMs) Push the defenders up a couple of clicks?

What alterations can you make? The defenders line up a little too wide I think. Big gaps between them for players to get through. A simple 'play narrow' shout is enough?

Any idea who your ideal players would be for the roles? Ayew/Ben Arfa?

I'm hoping to have Baines - Dede - Varane - Santon / Lucas Leiva - Bender / Goetze - Aguero, Mueller or Rooney - Willian / Llorente for next season (Season 2). I'll also see about getting Fabregas in for Lucas. Any problems with that line up and these tactics do you think?
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So, after a successful couple of years with Arsenal in which in the first season I lost in the FA Cup Final, Champions League Final (thanks to Szczesny going walkabout twice) and finished 3rd in the league (2 points off top, took 1 point from last 2 games) and then won the league the following year on goal difference (Man City are just relentless), got knocked out in the semis by Barcelona (only 2-1) and lost in the FA Cup Final AGAIN, I've decided that this defence needs to be sorted out.

I don't know if it's just Falcao or these tactics, but I bought him in the January window of 12/13. He finished the Premiership's top scorer on 24. Extraordinary.

Results here;
12/13 1st page; http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/9482/jr32.jpg
12/13 2nd page; http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/7546/98pc.jpg
12/13 3rd page; http://imageshack.us/f/593/9vm7.jpg/

13/14 1st page; http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8994/07ix.jpg
13/14 2nd page; http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/6735/7rda.jpg
13/14 3rd page; http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/6977/oveg.jpg

Note the 8-game stretch on pages 2 + 3 of the 13/14 season. March 29th Chelsea at home through to Barca at home on April 23rd. Won 5, drew 1 and lost 2.

Against all teams away from home I shouted 'Get Ball Forward' and 'Work Ball Into Box' (annoys me how much players shoot from 25 yards in this, they never score)

Against most teams away from home I shouted the same. Against bigger teams sometimes only 'Work Ball Into Box'.

Dropping deeper would probably have helped away from home, but I imagine the main issue is the gap between the defence and midfield. Getting them closer together would help a lot I think. For example, my 4-2 loss away to Chelsea saw them have 14% possession in my third compared to me having 7%. They also had 38% in midfield compared to my 28%. Dede completed 36 of 49 passes & Höwedes 39 from 53. Their passing ratings are only 11 and 10 respectively, but still, that's nearly 70% for the pair. My CMs were dropped to DMs.

For my 2-0 loss away to Juventus it was even worse. 17 shots from them to 2 from me, even with the CMs dropped to DMs. The issue here was the midfield. I had more possession in my third and their third but they had 46% to my 27% in midfield. I put it down to stormers from Marchisio & Lichtsteiner. 2-2 away at Liverpool, same issue as Chelsea. Defence passing 72% to 78%, midfield passing 78% to 84% with the CMs dropped to DMs.

I normally dropped the 2 CMs to DMs for away games against the bigger games and occasionally at home for the bigger games. Obviously it's not worked, which it should've done with Lars Bender and Lucas Leiva. I very rarely used Raikan's 4-3-3 for the away games - most notably against Barcelona for the 2nd leg, featured on the 3rd page of 13/14. Quite frankly I should have won. 3 huge chances for Falcao and he only buried 1 of them. Lars Bender made a mistake and they scored from it. That's another thing - no matter who I played in the BWM D role (usually Lars Bender), they would make a ridiculous number of mistakes. Lost count of how many times my AM told me that.

If we look at dropped points/lost games away from home in 12/13, we've got Villa, Juventus, Man City, Stoke, Everton, Newcastle, Man Utd, Wigan, Liverpool, Middlesbrough, Chelsea, Ajax, Celtic, West Brom, Chelsea and QPR. A wide range of teams, proving it's not just the bigger teams it struggles against. What's more, in the knockout rounds of the CL I didn't win away from home. I drew every game, invariably with high scores. Ignore the Celtic 3-3, it was a typical FM system joke. Should've been 3-0 to me.

If we turn to the 13/14 season and games away from home not won; Stoke, Benfica, Middlesbrough, Chelsea, Dortmund, Tottenham, Blackburn, Everton, Leverkusen, Burnley, Juventus, Liverpool, Barcelona and Swansea. So again, a range of teams - I failed to beat both Middlesbrough and Stoke away from home in both seasons. And again, the CL knockout problem came up again; lost to Leverkusen away, lost to Juventus away, drew with Barca away (with Raikan's 4-3-3 CM madness tactic so doesn't count). Also lost to Dortmund away in the group stages and drew with Benfica (courtesy of 2 flukey set pieces, ignore that result).

But it did fair better against some teams. Beat Man City home and away (and in the cup) and beat Man Utd home and away (5-1 at home). And actually I struggled for a big part of this season while Varane and Götze for injured for months. Had to resort to playing very undeveloped Torje/Oxlade as AMR for most of the season.

So to fix some problems I've decided to push the defensive line up 2 clicks to get them closer to the central midfielders, I've changed the close down setting to 'Stand Off More' (I noticed that the CBs would just charge forward out of position leaving the opposition simply needing to play a simple throughball for a CCC, even though their closing down settings were setting to the lowest setting), I've changed the WBs to FBs (I have Baines & Santon, so it really doesn't make much of a difference - they still get forward as much as possible but it just means they play a little deeper in defence) and I've changed the CB roles from CD X and BPD D to CD D and BPD D. I'd far rather have my defence in an organised line than them charging forward out of position plus they'll be a little higher up the pitch now anyway. I've also brought in Pique to replace Höwedes, which should bolster the passing % significantly.

I haven't always marked their ML/MR/AML/AMR with my AML/AMR, usually only the bigger teams. Anyway, my wingers aren't really big on their work rate/stamina settings. In one save I had Müller marking Hazard and he took him completely out of the game. If I wanted to shut up shop I could play Asamoah as my AML, who definitely would mark their AMR out of the game,

My line-up for this season will be;

Ter Stegen (Smithies)

RB - Santon / Clyne (desperate to buy AzpilicuetaRafael but will cost £100m+)
BPD - Pique / Varane
CD - Varane / Dede / Kara (for CM cover)
LB - Baines / Asamoah / Santon / Clyne

BWM D - Phil Jones / Asamoah / Kara
DLP D - Romulo / Asamoah / Kara

AMR AP A - Götze / Isco (Torje out on loan)
AMC AP S - Modric / Wilshere / Verratti (in on loan for a year)
AML - Willian IF S / Oxlade W S

ST DLF A - Falcao / Lewandowski

I'm not going to drop the CMs to DMs anymore. I'll keep the formation the same for a few big away games & see how I get on with the slight adjustments I've made.

Will report back at the end of the season.
 
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Erm, I posted a long post earlier and now it's gone...why?

Edit - it's ok, it's back. False alarm.
 
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Been using the beta version in the OP occasionaly for Bayern and every game with Spurs.

Working pretty well teamwise, however i cant get Bale involved on either flank where he barely has any shots at all (He's set as target man/play to feet and cut inside on the right wing)

Should i use him as a striker permanently or just tweak his creativity and long shot settings?
 
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Hey mate sorry about this, i posted before i spoke to you on steam! It's going very well mate, yourself? Just started a new game using this tactic at Ajax and it's working quite well
 
Just a few questions, is the correct tactic in the OP or can you link me to the one which works with 13.3.3 and also does using a transfer update like lfcmarshalls' change how the tactic works at all? I've just never had a successful save using that update, thanks in advance.
 
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