Spanish final 23 men World Cup squad announced

[Carine]

D3SiiR3 -- fair points. Villa has played in some pretty bad teams too though (Sporting Gijon and Zaragoza) and always scored. Torres has played 18 more games for Spain too and scored far less so either he didn't do the business as the main striker (when Villa wasn't playing) or he continued as a support striker for someone else (which suggests Spain maybe don't see him as their top goal threat). It doesn't matter that Torres is 2 years younger either because an overall goal average doesn't take age into account -- it's based purely on games played in. I don't know to be honest -- I just think that sometimes we are too quick to put premiership based (or english players) ahead of players we maybe haven't seen as much of. I would take either of them in any team to be honest.

Mistake -- Torres has played 16 more internationals, not 18. Sorry.

 

[Jamie F]

Spain > England... No contest

 

[RobsonUtting]

'on current form'? All of those players have been injured recently XD I'm saying our starting back four is better than Spain's.

Johnson = Ramos (Johnson better full-back but not so good when covering in the centre but pretty much equal overall)
Terry >>>>> Puyol
Ferdinand >>>>> Pique
Cole >>>>> Capdevilla

Are you high? Pique is one of the best in the world, while Ferdinand in declining, and Ramos is one of the top 3 RB's in the world, alongside Maicon and Alves.

 

[D3SiiR3]

Calling others deluded to post this? You lot are really funny. Just coz pique is attacking than other CBs makes him best? How many times he needs to defend playing for Barca. Every game they have say 70% possession and the moment they lose the ball, starting from Messi everyone closes so well, CB hardly has any job there other than heading a odd long ball.

For one, I never said he was the best...

2. Teams have training. The manager then picks the best players from training/form. Personally, it's Pep/Del Bosque > You.

3. I'm deluded for claiming that
Ramos is better than Johnson.
Puyol is better than/equals too(on form) Ferdinand
Cole is better than Capdevilla
and Pique is better than Terry and all other said players?

So I suppose the whole of Spain and England fans that actually know anything about football are delusional. :S

 

[Ride The Walrus]

Spain - 82
David Silva - 8
David Villa - 21
Fernando Torres - 18
Pedro Rodriguez - 12
Fernando Llorente - 14
Juan Mata - 9

England - 78
Wayne Rooney - 26
Darren Bent - 24
Peter Crouch - 7
Jermaine Defoe - 18
Emile Heskey - 3

It's closer than I thought it would be Plus these are league goals only, I couldn't be bothered to go through every competition!

Torres has been injured 2/3 of the season though <)

 

[GodCubed]

3. I'm deluded for claiming that
Ramos is better than Johnson.
Puyol is better than/equals too(on form) Ferdinand
Cole is better than Capdevilla
and Pique is better than Terry and all other said players?

So I suppose the whole of Spain and England fans that actually know anything about football are delusional. :S

I agree. Ramos, for one, is a top level international defender, and has been for quite a few years now. Puyol and Ferdinand I'd say were about equal, Cole is most definitely better than Capdevila, whereas Pique is simply the best centre-back in the world. The fact, mentioned earlier, that he can attack, is comfortable on the ball, and can in times of crisis be used as an auxiliary forward, surely adds to his lustre, rather than detracts?

 

[sunilvk7]

For one, I never said he was the best...

2. Teams have training. The manager then picks the best players from training/form. Personally, it's Pep/Del Bosque > You.

3. I'm deluded for claiming that
Ramos is better than Johnson.
Puyol is better than/equals too(on form) Ferdinand
Cole is better than Capdevilla
and Pique is better than Terry and all other said players?

So I suppose the whole of Spain and England fans that actually know anything about football are delusional. :S

Stretching it too far. I just commented on Pique>>>>>>>Rio.= which is simply not the case. Just coz Rio was injured doesnt make Pique better than him. As i said he really doesnt need to do much with Barca as they keep possession all the time. Apart from that i dont know what youe point 1,2,3 is all about. I never commented on Pique's selection and any other defensive comparisions.

---------- Post added at 10:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 PM ----------

Torres has been injured 2/3 of the season though <)

Heskey played only 1/3 of the games though

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

Why has this turned into England Defenders v Spanish Defenders Battle?

 

[__Sanchez__]

I don't see how anyone can think that england have a better squad than spain...all over the pitch they're better...Waay better in goal, slightly better defence, out of the scale better in midfield, and better upfront - though I rate rooney and torres the same, with villa above them both...and their squad is deeper as well...
Although they have the best squad easy, they don't have that special experience thing that Germany, Brazil, Italy and frace have..and England doesn't have that either...On paper, they should easily win the world cup, but those who have the best squad, doesn't necesarily win..

 

[D3SiiR3]

D3SiiR3 -- fair points. Villa has played in some pretty bad teams too though (Sporting Gijon and Zaragoza) and always scored. Torres has played 18 more games for Spain too and scored far less so either he didn't do the business as the main striker (when Villa wasn't playing) or he continued as a support striker for someone else (which suggests Spain maybe don't see him as their top goal threat). It doesn't matter that Torres is 2 years younger either because an overall goal average doesn't take age into account -- it's based purely on games played in. I don't know to be honest -- I just think that sometimes we are too quick to put premiership based (or english players) ahead of players we maybe haven't seen as much of. I would take either of them in any team to be honest.

Mistake -- Torres has played 16 more internationals, not 18. Sorry.

Erm...

1. Age definately come into play as you gain more experience as you get older...

2. Villa.
Gijon - 80 Apps - 38 Goals = 0.48 goals per game.
Zaragoza - 73 Apps - 32 Goals = 0.44 GPG.
Valencia - 164 Apps - 108 Goals = 0.66 GPG.
Total - 317 Apps - 178 Goals = 0.56 GPG.

Which would make your "Torres 1 goal per 2 games" irrelevant. Woops.

Although I can't argue Torres's scoring record at Atletico was poor.

Let's try the last 3 years.

Villa.
07/08 = 28 Apps - 18 Goals = 0.64 GPG.
08/09 = 38 Apps - 28 Goals = 0.73 GPG.
09/10 = 32 Apps - 21 Goals = 0.65 GPG.

Total = 98 Apps - 67 Goals = 0.68 GPG.

Torres.
07/08 = 33 Apps - 24 Goals = 0.73 GPG.
08/09 = 24 Apps - 14 Goals = 0.58 GPG.
09/10 = 22 Apps - 18 Goals = 0.82 GPG.

Total = 79 Apps - 56 Goals = 0.71 GPG.

Both outstanding tallies, but for me, Torres > Villa all the time.

****** up bit in bold.

---------- Post added at 12:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:00 AM ----------

Stretching it too far. I just commented on Pique>>>>>>>Rio.= which is simply not the case. Just coz Rio was injured doesnt make Pique better than him. As i said he really doesnt need to do much with Barca as they keep possession all the time. Apart from that i dont know what youe point 1,2,3 is all about. I never commented on Pique's selection and any other defensive comparisions.

Never said anythin about Pique being better 'cause of Rio being injured... :S

 

[Aannddyy]

Senna's had a shocking season with injuries so i dont think he was ever going to go to the world cup.

It wasn't that bad, he played more games than Torres.. But I was saying that he was in the Euro 08 team and did pretty well

Heskey played only 1/3 of the games though

Heskey made 30+ appearances this season in the league - I can't believe he is even in the squad..

Torres has been injured 2/3 of the season though <)

Exactly, 20 starts 18 goals. And yet people still try and say David Villa is better? HA XD

 

[Carine]

Which would make your "Torres 1 goal per game" irrelevant.

I don't know what you mean by this.

They are both really great strikers. I just it find it surprising that a player who...

1. was nominated for the Ballon D'Or and FIFA World Player of the Year in 2009-10.
2. scored 4 goals in 4 games at Euro 2008.
3. who in 2008-2009 broke the Spanish League percentage record with a goal-scoring ratio of 0.84 per game. He achieved this despite taking free-kicks and corners.
4. Is Spain's 2nd all-time top goalscorer.
5. During the years 2005-2009 Villa WAS the WORLD's most prolific goalscorer -- this is an actual fact btw. When this stat is updated to include the season just finished, I'm pretty sure he'll still be at the top of the list.

...is pretty much always considered to Torres's side-kick on forums. Anyway, it's ONLY my opinion, and Spain can call on both of them so they're laughing either way.

 

[D3SiiR3]

I don't know what you mean by this.

They are both really great strikers. I just it find it surprising that a player who...

1. was nominated for the Ballon D'Or and FIFA World Player of the Year in 2009-10.
2. scored 4 goals in 4 games at Euro 2008.
3. who in 2008-2009 broke the Spanish League percentage record with a goal-scoring ratio of 0.84 per game. He achieved this despite taking free-kicks and corners.
4. Is Spain's 2nd all-time top goalscorer.
5. During the years 2005-2009 Villa WAS the WORLD's most prolific goalscorer -- this is an actual fact btw. When this stat is updated to include the season just finished, I'm pretty sure he'll still be at the top of the list.

...is pretty much always considered to Torres's side-kick on forums. Anyway, it's ONLY my opinion, and Spain can call on both of them so they're laughing either way.

I changed it as I made a mistake.

But I have proven that Torres scores more goals per game... So that would mean, if Torres would have played the same amount of games that Villa has played, Torres would have scored more. STATISTICALLY.

Not to say that he would. Just basing it off of stats and my opinion...

Not thhat I oppose your opinion. I just like to make people think about it differently and I like a debate...

 

[Carine]

But I have proven that Torres scores more goals per game... So that would mean, if Torres would have played the same amount of games that Villa has played, Torres would have scored more. STATISTICALLY.

Yes, Torres may well be maturing into a better striker -- I can't deny that as his goal ratio is fantastic. On the other hand, the above statement only covers the last three seasons. There is only one club where Torres has had a goalscoring ratio anywhere near what you have stated -- Liverpool. His Atletico and Spain ratios are nowhere near as good in comparison.

Overall League and International games/goals shows a slightly different story...

Torres -- 364 games 161 goals
Villa -- 374 games 214 goals

but I do get your point and I'm sure Torres will bang in another remarkable total next season I think these two are definately a case of personal preference because they are both immense. If Spain don't self-implode then they have a great chance of winning this tournament. They have close to one of the best collections of international stars I've ever seen -- in my lifetime (and this is the seventh World Cup I will be lucky enough to witness and remember--little bit young for the other one before them).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just as a note -- I noticed that in the stats you posted earlier you didn't round up two of Villa's stats but did for Torres. Also, where did you get the stats from because as far as I can tell the stats given for Villa in 2008/09 are not correct. Villa played 33 league games that year and scored 28 (so his average would have been 0.84). If you added in cup games for that season then his goals in those comps need to be added too. If we're going to compare them, it has to be fair And if my stats are wrong, then I apologise in advance, but from what I can tell Villa's league goals total for the 3 year period stated should be 0.72, which is higher than Torres.

 

[Tezzz]

Their goalies are amazing. Imagine if one gets injured.. no pressure. If another one gets injured.. no pressure.

 

[calum1994]

it's a squad that any team should fear but you cant rule out the likes of brazil. Brazil v Spain final for me

 

[5ICK]

As spaniard, I'm happy with the squad.

Happy about Valdés going to the world cup, about Pedro as well,...
Only disagree about Ramos, but I see there is no way he could be out the list, so...

I can understand the surprise about Senna, but honestly, he has suffered a lot about injuries this season, he is not in form.

PD: I'm also happy about Güiza not going to South Africa. I've never liked him.

 

[Deleted member 79730]

Anyone saying our team is anywhere near the class of spains is deluded

 

[Billy]

Well of course the USA team isn't, Joe.

 

[Aannddyy]

The England fans in this thread disgust me, get behind your team rather than saying how **** they are. If they win the World Cup you will be the first ones to celebrate and say how you knew it was coming etc. It's just fickle..