Tactical problems

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Always!

Just please read the stickied thread that lists what info is needed before you post a thread. And be receptive to the advice given.
:D
I'm always receptive... but what will you allow me to do if the advice is of little use?
eg if I'm complaining that I can't read a match and someone asks me where the space is or where the threat is coming from... where am I meant to go from there?

If I already state that I can't read a match then asking me where the space is cannot really be considered useful advice can it?
Useful advice would state clearly identifiable/measurable conditions that would help me to see what too much space looks like or what a threat looks like.

I have seen many many posts from different people who appear to have a real grasp of this game... but I have yet to find anyone either willing or capable of educating other less observant people.

Honestly, I don't want somebody to play the game for me... but I would have thought that with all of the apparent know-how out there that somebody could have put together clearly identifiable situations which dictate a certain tactical response.

For instance... if they are constantly putting balls over the top of your defence and getting to the ball first then it is fairly obvious the D-Line is too high. To a novice like me there appears to be one clear change that can be made in this situation... lower your defensive line.
Now, if a lower defensive line is usually played with less closing down then stating this would also help out a novice... perhaps adding the dangers of closing down more so close to your own goal (and how to mitigate against this if you do choose to close down more anyway) would also help educate people.

Of course, I suspect there are alternative solutions to that problem, like maybe pressuring the ball distribution to make it harder for the over-the-top ball to be accurate or just having faster defenders... but I'm guessing this would require certain types of player attributes and I would consider this a slightly more advanced solution.
By all means present all of the different solutions... but include all of the necessary information (like must have higher pace and certain type of personality or whatever).

But what you tend to find is that people are very keen to make sweeping statements like "if there is a lot of space in the middle then maybe you could exploit that" without explaining how to identify that there is a lot of space in the middle... I have never seen big gaping holes in the middle and thought I should exploit that... and I have watched A LOT of games. Maybe it is my 1080p resolution that's the problem?
And how would one exploit the middle effectively - like a certain role/duty or combination of players or other TI's to help exploit the middle... I don't know or else I would be sharing the info with people!

I will concede that I have often seen big gaps on the wings and thought I would exploit that... but if "exploit the flank" makes any difference at all it appears to be very subtle with most of my tactics - maybe there is a reason for this?
It's easier just to crank up the mentality on the wingers.

My strong suspicions at this stage are that it is very very easy to identify problems after the fact (ie after you lose the game) but it is infinitely more difficult to spot when a lesser team is going to have the game of their lives against you - even for the so called experts... which is why there is so much post-match advice out there but as far as I can tell there is no "when they do this you do this" type of advice out there.

It also smells strongly of a RNG that is weighted by team expectations... what I mean is that if your team is expected to finish bottom in the league it makes sense that any of the random events in each match are strongly weighted against you... and this RNG weighting is likely adjusted after each match... so the more you win and the further your team is from it's expectations the harder it becomes to beat the RNG until you return to your expected position.
This can be achieved in many different ways to help obfuscate what is going on... like injuries to key players, morale problems (high and low), weather conditions, red cards, staff poaching, unrealistic wage expectations etc.
A very simplistic programming technique that helps keep things more realistic on a "per season" basis but can yield some very strange and frustrating individual results.
You can beat the odds... just like you can rep the same number on the roulette table several times or roll a double on the craps table or even win the lottery etc but for every time you manage it there will be many times that you don't!

So, I am very receptive to useful advice... but you can surely allow me a certain dismissive tone for responses that really don't help my particular situation can't you?
 
The question shouldn't be directed at me. I'm not a mod here or in charge of the tactical forums. It's just annoying when I read these tactical threads and people don't bother even reading the stickies or taking any advice onboard, let alone understanding (which is critical) what the advice is about, ie why it is being advised.


You came up with an answer to the D-line question, but if you watch matches, you'll see that most likely, it won't fix your issues. It's usually the midfield having faaaaar too much time to pick out a player. You're either going to have to drop much deeper or better - be more aggressive in the tackle or close down more on the midfielders.

I've been saying it over and over to Jee, but he was focusing on the end product far too much, rather than what caused it. Eliminate the cause. That's how you stop anything.

To answer your question, if the advice doesn't answer your question or you don't understand it or why it's being given, ask further questions.

MOST IMPORTANT FACT ABOUT ALL OF THIS IS --- YOU --- NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS HAPPENING AND WHY YOU'RE DOING WHAT YOU ARE.
 
whoops

I certainly did not mean to single you out for criticism WJ... I actually give you all the benefit of any doubt and choose to believe you are trying to help people think for themselves (You don't extend me the same benefit since you say "... but if you watch matches..." - clearly doubting just how long I pour over this stuff often many times over).

But, as someone who is able to think for himself I can tell you that I had worked out that I needed to "eliminate the cause" quite some time before resorting to forums.

My problem comes before this... very often I can't even identify the cause - and this is the tricky part to all of this.

Even more frustratingly I can often predict before the match that this match will give me trouble and I can often tell when a single result will turn the amazing half-season before it to ****. Sometimes I can even identify that a goal is going to come any time now... but I am helpless to prevent any of it... I just have to sit tight secure in the knowledge that the RNG will begin to shine more favourably on me eventually.

Perhaps I can't play this computer game, but I have some real life experiences that would probably allow me to make what would appear to be useful (though perhaps ineffective) suggestions to any number of causes.
The defence line in my previous post was a fictitious problem I was using to try to illustrate my point - which is probably why my proposed solution was so bad! But I did give a nod to the idea of preventing distribution - its an obvious solution to anyone with the power of thought.

The forums are quite useful for finding ideas for prevention/elimination of known problems/causes... but I have not found them helpful for identification of the causes.

But forums are not particularly forgiving of people who are still asking the same questions after the first couple of answers - regardless of how helpful (or not) the answers really are.

The forums (and various blogs) have done a very good job of promoting the idea that this game is completely dynamic and that the user really can make an impact on any match - that's why I devoted so much of my time to it... I enjoy the challenge.
However, my experience does not support this idea at all. This game plays just like any other... grind your way to having the best of everything and only then can you reliably dominate anything... understanding this makes the game much less frustrating.

Thing is, if I wanted to grind I would have played an MMORPG.

Don't get me wrong... this game offers the ability to create some nice stories like your favourite small time club gets a sugar daddy and works its way up to the top... but you will only win anything if you have the best of everything.
:'(
 
I didn't mean that you specifically don't watch matches. I meant, put some time into it, if you don't already. It's what I did and it's the way I learnt about space and why it is so important.
 
I didn't mean that you specifically don't watch matches. I meant, put some time into it, if you don't already. It's what I did and it's the way I learnt about space and why it is so important.

WJ,

you don't understand or you don't want to understand. Not everybody can identify something watching matches. This is my case.
 
WJ,

you don't understand or you don't want to understand. Not everybody can identify something watching matches. This is my case.
I was not talking about you at all.
 
I was not talking about you at all.

It's not only me... Many, many people are in the same situation and what Uwain says is totally right. If you don't know what's wrong, how are you supposed to fix it? What if you can't identify what's going wrong?

These kind of people, like me, end up being blamed and eventually kicked out of the game for that reason.

This is happening because fm has evolved in certain way, influenced by some (edit: a few but very active) users and their vision of football. Why can't fm have a more neutral point of view? Why tactics must be the center of everything (edit: when this is the opinion of just some players and not what's happening in real life?)

SI must be aware of this. Most of the people don't play the game the way it is intended to be played. Cheating, reloading and downloading tactics is very common nowadays. Isn't it concerning?
 
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It's not only me... Many, many people are in the same situation and what Uwain says is totally right. If you don't know what's wrong, how are you supposed to fix it? What if you can't identify what's going wrong?
Please don't put Uwain in the same unique box as you. Give the guy/girl a chance.
 
Haha

lol
This wasn't supposed to turn into anything as combative as this!

I did sign-up to this site and post here because I did identify with jee... I was under the impression that people could actually respond to the visual stimuli from the match engine and I couldn't work out how.

I now understand that the ME provides very little useful information and what little information it provides is pale by comparison to the giant rubber band firmly attached to your team.

Use the ME to identify when multiple players are trying to occupy the same blade of grass or to see ridiculous strategic decisions (ie massive gaps on the wings, or players standing off too much)... but beyond this you need to start looking for other problems. Just accept that sometimes the reason is simply that you are doing too well!

The key to this game becomes judging the elasticity of the rubber!

BTW I have a pretty little spreadsheet that repeatedly generates 2 normally distributed random numbers and compares them to one another... if the first number gets lucky and achieves a higher number too often then the second number gets a handy little boost to help it keep up.
Anyone interested in helping me market it?!? We can attach some random but apparently meaningful events with descriptive text and even add a graphics engine to try and represent the random events? I think it could be a winner!
;)
 
lol
This wasn't supposed to turn into anything as combative as this!

I did sign-up to this site and post here because I did identify with jee... I was under the impression that people could actually respond to the visual stimuli from the match engine and I couldn't work out how.

I now understand that the ME provides very little useful information and what little information it provides is pale by comparison to the giant rubber band firmly attached to your team.

Use the ME to identify when multiple players are trying to occupy the same blade of grass or to see ridiculous strategic decisions (ie massive gaps on the wings, or players standing off too much)... but beyond this you need to start looking for other problems. Just accept that sometimes the reason is simply that you are doing too well!

The key to this game becomes judging the elasticity of the rubber!

BTW I have a pretty little spreadsheet that repeatedly generates 2 normally distributed random numbers and compares them to one another... if the first number gets lucky and achieves a higher number too often then the second number gets a handy little boost to help it keep up.
Anyone interested in helping me market it?!? We can attach some random but apparently meaningful events with descriptive text and even add a graphics engine to try and represent the random events? I think it could be a winner!
;)
If you're suggesting that there's some sort of rubber banding involved, it's wrong. There's nothing like that.

The ME can provide you with everything you're looking for. I never even look at stats, because the ME provides enough during a match. There are others who can judge a game by looking at stats mostly (not JUST stats, it has to be said) though, so it helps finding what works for you.
 
If you're suggesting that there's some sort of rubber banding involved, it's wrong. There's nothing like that.

The ME can provide you with everything you're looking for. I never even look at stats, because the ME provides enough during a match. There are others who can judge a game by looking at stats mostly (not JUST stats, it has to be said) though, so it helps finding what works for you.


If someone can't read the ME, then?
 
...
The ME can provide you with everything you're looking for...
Then please WJ, I implore you... show me how.

If you can convert me to a believer then I can help spread the word and help others understand.
Alas, I fear this is just further posturing to support the illusion of a meaningful ME.

I have all the time in the world to practice any techniques you wish to share - surely my commitment cannot be doubted?
 
There's plenty of advice on the forums (especially the SI games forum) regarding this sort of thing. There's a lot of info in this very thread as well.
 
boing!

There's plenty of advice on the forums (especially the SI games forum) regarding this sort of thing. There's a lot of info in this very thread as well.
Nicely reinforcing my theory.

Have you read the advice with the eyes of someone trying to learn how to read and respond to the AI strategy?
I think not.

If it was at all possible to read the ME in a satisfactory manner then the clues as to how would not be so cryptic.
With sufficient obfuscation you can maintain the mystique and allow these RNG games to continue rolling out the same old thing every year (albeit with more complex RNG models and more and more influences and different UI's) - it's a reasonable business model but it doesn't help me :(
 
Nicely reinforcing my theory.

Have you read the advice with the eyes of someone trying to learn how to read and respond to the AI strategy?
I think not.

If it was at all possible to read the ME in a satisfactory manner then the clues as to how would not be so cryptic.
With sufficient obfuscation you can maintain the mystique and allow these RNG games to continue rolling out the same old thing every year (albeit with more complex RNG models and more and more influences and different UI's) - it's a reasonable business model but it doesn't help me :(
Instead of aimlessly beating around the bush, have you tried doing it yourself? Have you read the advice given on the SI forum and this thread, for instance? Have you looked in your own game and matches for these clues then? Have you opened a thread (anywhere, really) asking about the specific issues you do have so that someone could give you the answers you're looking for?
 
Instead of aimlessly beating around the bush, have you tried doing it yourself? Have you read the advice given on the SI forum and this thread, for instance? Have you looked in your own game and matches for these clues then? Have you opened a thread (anywhere, really) asking about the specific issues you do have so that someone could give you the answers you're looking for?

Yes,Yes,Yes and Yes.

Now what can I do? Don't get it wrong. I want to keep trying but I don't know what to do...
 
Yes,Yes,Yes and Yes.

Now what can I do? Don't get it wrong. I want to keep trying but I don't know what to do...
Again, Jee, the questions weren't addressed to you.
 
Again, Jee, the questions weren't addressed to you.

...

But you are telling him/her the same things you did to me. And his/her feeling is the same than mine. He/she is in the exact same situation than me and many many other people. Why don't you realize about this? It's not me, it's a bunch of people.

Telling me, us, watch a game and spot issues doesn't really help, because it is actually what we are doing. How can we take informed decisions if we can't read the ME? How can we learn to read the ME?
 
...

But you are telling him/her the same things you did to me. And his/her feeling is the same than mine. He/she is in the exact same situation than me and many many other people. Why don't you realize about this? It's not me, it's a bunch of people.

Telling me, us, watch a game and spot issues doesn't really help, because it is actually what we are doing. How can we take informed decisions if we can't read the ME? How can we learn to read the ME?
Jee, I'm done responding to you. I've told you before. I can't get through to you. An entire SI forum can't get through to you. Everyone else gets advice, gains knowledge and gets better. You don't. You don't learn from any advice. You're dismissive of advice given. You're shown screenshots and then tell people "you don't see it". You have opportunities to re-watch PKMs where issues are pointed out, so that you can see what was said and why. You had a million opportunities to get better, but you don't. You still make some of the same mistakes you made a year ago, even though you been explicitly told what those mistakes were and even why they are mistakes. I don't have the time to respond to you.

I'm hoping that Uwain is like everyone else - capable of taking in advice to learn and progress. So I wouldn't be so quick to look for a mate here and lump him/her in with you.
 
Jee, I'm done responding to you. I've told you before. I can't get through to you. An entire SI forum can't get through to you. Everyone else gets advice, gains knowledge and gets better. You don't. You don't learn from any advice. You're dismissive of advice given. You're shown screenshots and then tell people "you don't see it". You have opportunities to re-watch PKMs where issues are pointed out, so that you can see what was said and why. You had a million opportunities to get better, but you don't. You still make some of the same mistakes you made a year ago, even though you been explicitly told what those mistakes were and even why they are mistakes. I don't have the time to respond to you.

I'm hoping that Uwain is like everyone else - capable of taking in advice to learn and progress. So I wouldn't be so quick to look for a mate here and lump him/her in with you.


I don't need to look for a mate here. I know many many people who are struggling the same as me. Most of them just give up. Others cheat or download tactics, which is another way of cheating. A few others progress. I don't know a single person of that last group. I would ask them what did they do. I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm saying I don't know them.

Just answer this: What you want me to do if I don't see something? Do you think I'm doing it on purpose or what?
 
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