It brings back that old chant "1-0 to the Arsenal", they could do with that. Now I love it when my side plays brilliant football on the way to winning and that should always be the aim for a side like Arsenal, but sometimes you just have to brawl and scrap your way to a win. Unless you're Barcelona, then always be Barcelona.
The Arsenal Thread
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It brings back that old chant "1-0 to the Arsenal", they could do with that. Now I love it when my side plays brilliant football on the way to winning and that should always be the aim for a side like Arsenal, but sometimes you just have to brawl and scrap your way to a win. Unless you're Barcelona, then always be Barcelona.
Haha luckily his contract ends this year. Unless board decides to cash in on our CB's and we are left with Djourou and Squillaci. Worrying thought.
United are renowned for doing it, of course, but City are getting good at it, and Chelsea were always decent at it, though this year they've been taking the 'destroy everything in their path' approach. Arsenal just seem incapable of it. ANOTHER cliche, but those kind of performances win you titles.
It's okay, Silvestre's available on a free, you can sign him up.
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He is only worth that investment if he aids you in winning competitions. 24m is a lot of money, and if Man United are now to go on a barren spell (Unlikely, but that was what my if in my original post implied), then no, I don't think he is worth that outlay at all. I don't mind if you disagree with the point, I expect many Manchester United fans to disagree.
PS: Ronaldo will find it difficult indeed, but he's done a good job so far, and if he continues, well then he is indeed worth it. Despite the massive price tag.
But its not about what the team wins, its about what he does in relation to his fee surely? if we get pipped at the post in every competition, but he does his job and score 25 goals gets 15 assists, he's done more for his value, than if he scores 5 and we win the CL and PL. As its likely that we would have been even further off without those 25 goals and 15 assists, whereas we probably would compensate for those 5 goals in the latter scenario. If he does the former, I doubt there will be many fans, United or otherwise, who would doubt he is worth it, because he would have delivered in relation to the price paid for him. I'm not sure I follow this argument that if he excels, but the team doesn't win, he isn't worth it.
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I dunno about the rest of you, but I determine if a transfer's worth it by looking at the player in isolation. If he costs lots and does badly, he's not worth it. If he costs little and does badly, he was an unlucky punt. If he costs a lot and performs excellently, he's worth the fee, no matter what the rest of his team does.
If a player was only worth investing in if he helped his club deliver trophies, the mid-table clubs who won't get relegated but are unlikely to win a trophy in a season shouldn't invest at all, yet there are numerous clubs like that who have invested relatively heavily in their squad. By your logic those players have been failures whether they performed relative to their price or not. If Steven Fletcher carries on his goal rate for Sunderland, and they finish 15th with no trophy, is he a failure? Despite his price, I doubt many would agree.
Hmmm, to put a dollar on QPR for the Draw or Win...?
Wouldn't underestimate QPR. They were all over us at times (though we were missing Fellaini)
fuelledbypassion
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It's not just about performance either. There will have been economic benefit from shirt sales plus the invaluable experience that he will pass on to our younger players.
The Swiss Ramble
Gazidis and his self sustaining business model made almost 20m loss last season. Only player sales made it positive for us. Also our wages to revenue rate has increased now to over 60% which is quite poor compared to United's.
Also according to their calculations we could easily spend 50-60m from our cash reserves. Which would mean at least one player for 25m on 100k salary.
Gazidis and his self sustaining business model made almost 20m loss last season. Only player sales made it positive for us. Also our wages to revenue rate has increased now to over 60% which is quite poor compared to United's.
Also according to their calculations we could easily spend 50-60m from our cash reserves. Which would mean at least one player for 25m on 100k salary.
Different scenario, since we are talking about a Manchester United transfer, I was relating it only to their goals and ambitions. It's got to the stage where if they don't win a trophy, it's a poor season, so if the acquisition of Van Persie doesn't lead to continuous winning of silverware it's a bit different than if Steven Fletcher's quality goal-scoring rate keeps them in the Premier League (One of the reasons being because the money the team would get for staying in the Premier League is massive, higher than Fletcher's fee anyway.)
In the same way, if Cazorla's performances keep Arsenal in the CL next season, he would most certainly be a worthwhile acquisition, considering you get around £20m IIRC just for getting into the group stages.
PS: Fuelledbypassion, you are absolutely right, shirt sales are certainly a good shout. But sadly I don't have the figures for how much the club has earned through Van Persie merchandise, it would all be guesswork for me.
If you work as a car salesman, you sell a lot of cars and more than justify their investment in you. If the rest of the people at your dealership are bad at their job and sell nothing, are you happy to be sacked and adjudged a failure despite your impressive individual performance?
No player can single handedly win a trophy, so why on Earth would you judge investment on them based on if they do? Everyone can see Cazorla has been fantastic for Arsenal, if the players around him play poorly, and you finish 5th, he hasn't done poorly, the team has. If City won nothing to date after all their investment, then you could judge that wasteful, but if Aguero within that collective investment scores 25+ goals a game then he was a worthwhile investment, others let him down.
You just sound like you're searching for a desperate argument to justify selling RVP.
I can't remember at all when I suggested that a single player can win trophies on his own, but Man United were a quality team before his arrival and still are following the arrival. But if the signing of Van Persie doesn't push the team onto a new level (In this case, winning something as they failed to do last year) then I still don't think he's worth £20m, Because in that case the goals, however impressive the numbers, still haven't led to success. Man United bought RVP to improve the team, so if the team doesn't improve their competition standings, then the signing wasn't a success, no matter what numbers he puts up. That's what I feel anyway, feel free to argue.
And in the case of your final point, it seems you're just hearing it wrong then. Don't worry, it happens.