The Arsenal Thread

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Wouldn't say it's totally over. Remember what Liverpool did in a certain European competition? Not over til the fat lady sings
 
Not trying to stir up a debate or anything but I have been saying this for around 3 years now (all my best mates are Gunners supporters and actually agree with me)

Wegner needs to go! You need to get a new manager in there with fresh idea's, long gone are the days you have Pires/Henry/Bergkamp/Ljunberg which could allow you to play the type of football Wegner did (which was great to watch, Henry is probably my favourite striker of all time) you cannot play it now, Giroud is an old fashioned CF type player (yes he is ok with ball at his feet as well) but you need him to attack the ball in the air from crosses out wide.. not this intricate passing etc around the box with Arteta/Diaby (who I rate quite highly as well) Ramsey etc...

I think Moyes would be a great manager for you! To my knowledge he has not renewed his contract with Everton
 
Not trying to stir up a debate or anything but I have been saying this for around 3 years now (all my best mates are Gunners supporters and actually agree with me)

Wegner needs to go! You need to get a new manager in there with fresh idea's, long gone are the days you have Pires/Henry/Bergkamp/Ljunberg which could allow you to play the type of football Wegner did (which was great to watch, Henry is probably my favourite striker of all time) you cannot play it now, Giroud is an old fashioned CF type player (yes he is ok with ball at his feet as well) but you need him to attack the ball in the air from crosses out wide.. not this intricate passing etc around the box with Arteta/Diaby (who I rate quite highly as well) Ramsey etc...

I think Moyes would be a great manager for you! To my knowledge he has not renewed his contract with Everton

Indeed he hasn't and it's looking very unlikely he will now. But the Arsenal board may take the same viewpoint as Man Utd as needing more experience of playing in the CL as Utd are now no longer pursuing him
 
'Stupid wage budget is removed'?

Sigh, please don't tell me you'd be okay just bringing in players on massive £150,000 a week contracts because we're struggling at the moment. Yes, we want the team to do well, but in my opinion we should want the team to do well under certain circumstances, and paying over the top wages isn't the only way of achieving success.

I'm not pretending our wage system is great (Because it isn't, we're paying good money for dead-wood at the moment basically, but as soon as we cross that line and start being retarded with our transfer fees and wage distribution, that's when we can say goodbye to a unique identity that is all too rare in football these days.

Might not mean much to you, but it certainly does to me, as well as many other Arsenal fans out there.

This is nice to see, however it also seems to be reason Arsenal are going downhill rather than improving,

you have lovely finances, one of the best teams in terms of doing things the right way, however this attitude will only aid the other bigger spending teams..

you have some of the richest owners in the league in Usmanov and Kroenke and until you spend some money, not stupid amounts, but some, i cant see the situation improving anytime soon
 
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This is nice to see, however it also seems to be reason Arsenal are going downhill rather than improving,

you have lovely finances, one of the best teams in terms of doing things the right way, however this attitude will only aid the other bigger spending teams..

you have one of the richest owners in the league in Usmanov and until you spend some money, not stupid amounts, but some, i cant see the situation improving anytime soon

Funny, the progressive and profitable attitude doesn't seem to have done Bayern any harm.

Also, Usmanov doesn't own Arsenal. He's the second biggest shareholder after Kroenke.
 
Without over-spending I think Wenger has done a good job!

He consistently qualifies for the Champions League, and they always at least get out of the group stages. Say what you want about not winning trophies etc but he has kept Arsenal consistently up there with the rest even after losing his best players.

I know Arsenal need to be winning more trophies but I believe keeping the club stable in the long run is very important.

Also, Wenger needs a bit of luck, the poor old goat
 
Well, Bayern are richest team in the country, Arsenal aren't even richest team in London. Its not as easy to show net profit when guy just down the street is willing to pay twice your wages.

But transfers are one thing, my concern is Wenger seems to lost his touch with new talents. Ramsey was supposed to be next big thing and he's *****. Szczesny was supposed to be next big thing and he's *****. A lot of other guys arent playing on the level they used to few years back. And for a club that's supposed to be so frugal, there's far too much overpayed deadwood in the squad.
 
Without over-spending I think Wenger has done a good job!

He consistently qualifies for the Champions League, and they always at least get out of the group stages. Say what you want about not winning trophies etc but he has kept Arsenal consistently up there with the rest even after losing his best players.

I know Arsenal need to be winning more trophies but I believe keeping the club stable in the long run is very important.

Also, Wenger needs a bit of luck, the poor old goat

I don't see this as Wenger's fault. All three goals were shocking defending. In fact most of the games thrown away this season were due to shocking defending. As has been said before, the team just isn't performing in the first half of games, and in the second half the performances are much improved. Wenger could be argued to be the cause of this decrease in first half form just as much as he could be argued as the cause of the increase in second half form.

If you think about it clearly, the teams ahead of us are City, United and Chelsea with their vastly superior funding; and a resurgent Spurs with a quality first XI. Despite this season and its horrific defending, we're managing to still chase for a spot in the CL and have actually invested in some players this season in the form of Giroud, Podolski and Monreal - all good players who have been making an impact. Perhaps for those supporting "big" teams like Barcelona this is difficult to grasp, but at the knock out stage this is a zero sum game. A team must lose.

If the investment in players continues then the intention would be to swap the money going on 'dead wood' (currently around £15m per season on wages) for decent players. As has been said on this thread, Bendtner, Denilson, Djourou and Santos etc represent the players who you can buy for 'cut price deals' which arn't competitive any more at the top end of the game but "will do". Slowly filter those guys out, re invest in players and perhaps we'll get somewhere. It's worth adding that the Emirates with the new sponsorship deal will advance some of the money for this coming summer so we can actually start to buy players of quality and do it often. The sponsor obviously wants their money to buy them positive publicity so this works well for both parties, so I certainly see this as being a change in the way the club will buy considering the club still has significant revenues.

The problem right now is the team is throwing away results like they do not give a ****, and the fans deserve better than that. The easy option is to blame the manager, pull out the old 'they arn't playing for the manager' nonsense. Perhaps that is what happens when you sell consecutive club captains (Fabregas and Van Persie) and have an inconsistent and swashbuckling club captain in Vermaelen who is a liability to the team and needs to rediscover his decision making from his first season. The leadership has to be there on the pitch as well as in the back rooms, and on the pitch the team looks all at sea.
 
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But transfers are one thing, my concern is Wenger seems to lost his touch with new talents. Ramsey was supposed to be next big thing and he's *****. Szczesny was supposed to be next big thing and he's *****. A lot of other guys arent playing on the level they used to few years back. And for a club that's supposed to be so frugal, there's far too much overpayed deadwood in the squad.

Well, Ramsey is slowly improving, but I can't help feel he's only playing these games as Diaby is -constantly- out injured. He doesn't hold the ball well and is very slow for someone playing on the wing more often than not. The keeper I agree with, no competition for the keeper shot makes me think Woj has become complacent. Sagna has severely declined, but part of that is due to Walcott being pushed into the centre and not giving the 'out ball' for Sagna. He has never been a brilliant attacking full back, his role is to provide width only.

The bigger problem is constantly attracting players to the club, and whilst it is tempting to say 'Oh, Wenger out..', who do they get in? Do we really think the board will just change overnight and start saying 'Of course we don't want our bumper windfall from shares, lets spend some serious money!' with a new manager untested in the role? I'd say that any high profile manager will want that guarantee of significant available funds, and that is against the philosophy of the club.

From what I understand the cheapest ticket at the game last night was £96, and obviously for the most expensive club to support in the league, the fans who are still supporting the club after this horrific run of embarrassing capitulations and are still paying money over deserve to have their say. But what exactly is this plan B? Is it actually thought through? If feels almost as if Wenger is just the 'man to hate' when the board has tied his hands.
 
The most disappointing thing is Arsenal's lack of a solid defence. Bayern were very average by their standards tonight and all three of their goals were preventable. Yet Arsenal have conceded three goals at home and the tie is practically all over.

Exactly. I wouldn't mind if the team played well and ultimately lost; but the capitulation and clown defending really does take its toll, both on the fans and on Wenger. As iArsenal said, Wenger looks burnt out and entirely fed up with his team letting him down in basic ways. Arsenal had 8 players back and Kroos still wasn't closed down. For the second goal nobody decided to mark Bayern's tallest player from a corner (...), and for the third it should have been closed down or cut out as it was nothing beyond a routine overlap due to Vermaelen once again diving in and leaving his position open.

EDIT: Apologies for the multiple posts. Busy day so catching up from the posts from last night when I've had time to think about it a little.
 
Funny, the progressive and profitable attitude doesn't seem to have done Bayern any harm.

Also, Usmanov doesn't own Arsenal. He's the second biggest shareholder after Kroenke.

Bayern have done incredibly well, but the amount of successful teams who achieve things through money and the amount of teams who try to be like Bayern and Arsenal is massively in favour of the money side, it rarely works out like it has for Bayern

Fair point about Usmanov, however the main point still stands, Arsenal need to spend a bit of money.. because as things stand they are becoming the 3rd best team in London let alone the premier league
 
This is nice to see, however it also seems to be reason Arsenal are going downhill rather than improving,

you have lovely finances, one of the best teams in terms of doing things the right way, however this attitude will only aid the other bigger spending teams..

you have some of the richest owners in the league in Usmanov and Kroenke and until you spend some money, not stupid amounts, but some, i cant see the situation improving anytime soon

There was a lot of controversy surrounding the owning of Arsenal Football Club and Kroenke is the majority shareholder after effectively telling the selling shareholders to sell to him and not Usmanov because he claimed Usmanov was a 'pirate' and just wanted to make money off of Arsenal and not help them. Ironically this is actually what Kroenke is doing. Usmanov during January released many statements to the press in interviews claiming he wants to be Arsenal and that Henry texts and calls him along with other un-named ex/current club players telling him to buy the club. He said "I don't know what will happen in the future" but he wants to buy the club and invest copious amounts of money into it. But as we've seen from Liverpool (no offence just a good example) and QPR spending ridiculous amounts of money on players doesn't guarantee success.
 
There was a lot of controversy surrounding the owning of Arsenal Football Club and Kroenke is the majority shareholder after effectively telling the selling shareholders to sell to him and not Usmanov because he claimed Usmanov was a 'pirate' and just wanted to make money off of Arsenal and not help them. Ironically this is actually what Kroenke is doing. Usmanov during January released many statements to the press in interviews claiming he wants to be Arsenal and that Henry texts and calls him along with other un-named ex/current club players telling him to buy the club. He said "I don't know what will happen in the future" but he wants to buy the club and invest copious amounts of money into it. But as we've seen from Liverpool (no offence just a good example) and QPR spending ridiculous amounts of money on players doesn't guarantee success.

Money guarentee's success, you continue to spend money you will do well... QPR spent money but brought poorly.. but if QPR continue with the signings such as Remy and Samba ( if they stay up ) they will be a decent side

Liverpool's signings were made off the money from big departures such as Torres, Mascherano, Alonso ETC, Just them fetched over 100million, however again we signed poor replacements, hence the decline... if we continued to spend that kind of money without player departures we would be right up there

When i talk about spending money i mean net spend, not just signing players to replace departures as it will get you nowhere

With Chelsea, City and to a degree United spending big money most summers, you either keep up or fall off 9 times out of 10
 
I don't see this as Wenger's fault. All three goals were shocking defending. In fact most of the games thrown away this season were due to shocking defending. As has been said before, the team just isn't performing in the first half of games, and in the second half the performances are much improved. Wenger could be argued to be the cause of this decrease in first half form just as much as he could be argued as the cause of the increase in second half form.

If you think about it clearly, the teams ahead of us are City, United and Chelsea with their vastly superior funding; and a resurgent Spurs with a quality first XI. Despite this season and its horrific defending, we're managing to still chase for a spot in the CL and have actually invested in some players this season in the form of Giroud, Podolski and Monreal - all good players who have been making an impact. Perhaps for those supporting "big" teams like Barcelona this is difficult to grasp, but at the knock out stage this is a zero sum game. A team must lose.

If the investment in players continues then the intention would be to swap the money going on 'dead wood' (currently around £15m per season on wages) for decent players. As has been said on this thread, Bendtner, Denilson, Djourou and Santos etc represent the players who you can buy for 'cut price deals' which arn't competitive any more at the top end of the game but "will do". Slowly filter those guys out, re invest in players and perhaps we'll get somewhere. It's worth adding that the Emirates with the new sponsorship deal will advance some of the money for this coming summer so we can actually start to buy players of quality and do it often. The sponsor obviously wants their money to buy them positive publicity so this works well for both parties, so I certainly see this as being a change in the way the club will buy considering the club still has significant revenues.

The problem right now is the team is throwing away results like they do not give a ****, and the fans deserve better than that. The easy option is to blame the manager, pull out the old 'they arn't playing for the manager' nonsense. Perhaps that is what happens when you sell consecutive club captains (Fabregas and Van Persie) and have an inconsistent and swashbuckling club captain in Vermaelen who is a liability to the team and needs to rediscover his decision making from his first season. The leadership has to be there on the pitch as well as in the back rooms, and on the pitch the team looks all at sea.

Some very good points. I'm shocked by how many people on this thread and in the world aren't blaming certain player's performances and instead are pointing the finger at the Manager who, while he influences the goings on during the match, can't stop his players making retarded and non-characteristic decisions.
 
The thing I feel most sorry for Wenger about - he is forever taking hits to take the board out of the firing line but at no stage do they do anything to take some heat of him. They know they have a great man in the job because he won't do anything to harm the club, even if his reputation is being harmed in the process.
 
Completely agree philly, being an American I never really liked the idea of Kroenke taking over Arsenal. I remember a couple years back (3 I believe) the Denver Nuggets (the basketball team Kroenke owns) made the playoffs. When the playoff schedule was announced the venue that they play in was scheduled to host WWE Monday Night Raw the same night. This event was scheduled months in advance. Now my question is why would you schedule another sporting event the same night that you could possibly be in a playoff match? It seemed like he had no faith or interest in his team. I have a feeling that he feels the same way about Arsenal. He doesn't care if we win anything.
 
What I don't understand is that I think people forget the context Arsenal are in. We are challenging teams in the Premier League, which is more than what other teams can offer. Again, the teams that have been above us in the past couple of years, i.e Chelsea, Man City and Man U, all have seemingly superior budgets to that of Arsenal so isn't it obvious that we will finish below them? Man United have spent decades building up their club stature to pretty much the biggest football club in the world, so as much as we don't like it, they are always going to be better than us in terms of power and status. Man City and Chelsea are different from this, as they have practically bought their way to their league titles. For instance, if a massively wealthy owner came in at Arsenal we would see the same change. The difference is, Arsenal are a club who are over performing in relation to the situation at other big clubs in our league. We spend little in comparison, yet we year in year out manage to stay in contact. Spurs yes, are above us at the moment this season, but I do remember a 13 point lead slipping last year? All it takes is for Bale to get injured and their team morale will plummet along with their Champions League hopes. However, for a club like Arsenal it is important to win trophies, not every season, but most seasons. As a FOOTBALL CLUB we are in to win as far as i'm concerned. Taking it back to basics, all football team should strive to win silverware at any level, and the second the Arsenal board forget this, then means we are a business. Which brings me to a point that Arsenal seem to be a business these days, more than a football team. Every year we announce we have made profit, and seem to sneak into the Top 5 richest clubs according to Forbes magazine. But where is all this profit going? I'll tell you.... The Board lovely suit pockets. Ivan Gazidis and his crew are quite happy to fill their pockets, while Wenger and the players take the flack from media, supporters and experts. I maintain the view that it will come out at some point that the Board have been running the show in terms of transfers, because you cannot tell me that Wenger wouldn't spend if he is actually getting the money the Board are saying he gets?......... Final point: I see Barcelona lost by two goals tonight to a 'lesser' team, yet nothing is being said? But Arsenal go down by 2 goals to a team much stronger than them, yet its a crisis?
 
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