The Arsenal Thread

I say this now, you guys will sign Hazard in the summer.
 
Doubt it. Would fit well, but don't think Arsene would spend that much.

At least in Bendtner you've got the perfect person to emulate Henry.

Can i ask why you said Bendtner instead of the RVP Chamakh, Theo or Vela?
 
Can i ask why you said Bendtner instead of the RVP Chamakh, Theo or Vela?

Sarcasm works better with really **** people.. a bit like when people say Heskey is the best striker in the world instead of Darren Bent.
 
Sarcasm works better with really **** people.. a bit like when people say Heskey is the best striker in the world instead of Darren Bent.

I knew he was being sarcastic i just forgot to include the ;)

---------- Post added at 09:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:15 PM ----------

Stop thinking about Jack Wilshere being at the centre of a club versus country row.
And start thinking about whether going to the Under-21s Championship this summer will really benefit the senior England team.
Stuart Pearce, the England Under-21 boss, puts forward a compelling argument that going to Denmark next month will give the Arsenal midfielder invaluable tournament experience.
However, it won't be a good experience if he goes to the tournament feeling tired, fatigued and, most importantly, is vulnerable to injury. If he gets injured, then that would be a pretty lousy experience.
Wilshere, 19, has already played a staggering 52 games this season, and in recent games has looked jaded and therefore below the high standards he has set himself during his breakthrough year.
If he goes to the Under-21 Championship, then he will be excused pre-season at Arsenal, potentially missing the start of next season and possibly England's friendly with Holland in August and the Euro 2012 qualifier in Bulgaria on September 2.

Arsene Wenger has already said he must have four weeks' rest, fears Wilshere will suffer burnout and, like he did with World Cup finalists Cesc Fabregas and Robin van Persie, will hold him back in the first few weeks.
Just look at what's happened to Fabregas and Van Persie this season as a knock-on effect of their World Cup heroics in South Africa.
They both missed much of pre-season - training and games - and have both suffered lengthy, niggly injuries this season.
If Wilshere goes with the Under-21s, that could well be him next season, just as it was with Theo Walcott two years ago.
He went to the Under-21s after a long, hard season and having established himself in England's senior team. The following season, Walcott was plagued by injuries, had a stop-start season with Arsenal and then did not make the World Cup squad.

How was going to the Under-21 tournament good for his development?
That's why, even though Arsenal pay Wilshere's wages, people must stop thinking of this as a club versus country row.
Leave that debate aside for a moment and realise that too much football without a break at such a young age is just as likely to damage a young player as it is help him.
It's just the same for Andy Carroll.
He's established himself in the senior England squad. he's been plagued by injuries this season and therefore hasn't played as many games as Wilshere.
But, equally, Carroll needs a rest. His big frame has been prone to injury this season and he needs to get himself back into condition.
Do we really want and need our best young players to be playing every summer?
It is so short-sighted for people to then argue that Carroll has not played much.
Maybe, just maybe, that's because niggling injuries have held him back and they need a rest. It's so typical of the very English attitude towards footballers - flog them to death.

And before people come back with the argument about Spain and Germany developing Busquets and Ozil in their Under-21s, neither country has such a demanding or intense domestic competition as the Premier League.
I think the Premier League is the most exciting and most competitive. It's superb to watch. But the very nature of it means it's hard to balance the demands against developing a successful national side.
You can have one or the other. Not both.
Spain has the best national team in the world, yet their domestic league is as about as competitive as Scotland's. Two teams up against the rest, bar the odd freak result.
Would you really want that in the Premier League? No. Neither would I.
I'm quite sure Wenger never expected Wilshere to play as many games this season. But his performances and form have demanded it.

And how many Arsenal fans would then swallow Wilshere being rested so he is fresh for England duty?
Expand that for a moment. Forget your allegiance and just ask whether you'd sacrifice your best player, your chance of success this season, to help the national team.
That's the dilemma and it won't be solved any time soon.
Wilshere is a patriotic footballer. He wants to do well for his country as well as his club. We need more like him, both in terms of talent and attitude. But he also deserves the best treatment.

England getting results at Euro 2012 next summer must be more important than Pearce driving tired youngsters into the ground to get winning a tournament on his CV. Because winning the Under-21s will mean no more than that if the seniors flop.
But it still baffles me that people think dropping a tired senior player back into the junior ranks (endangering their fitness and progress the next season) can be a good thing and offer a positive experience.
Wilshere, and England's Euro 2012 hopes, would benefit far more from his having a rest this summer.


Read more: http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/john-cross/Jack-Wilshere-should-not-go-to-England-Under-21-tournament-and-lessons-from-Arsenal-s-Cesc-Fabregas-and-Robin-van-Persie-show-why-John-Cross-column-article731657.html#ixzz1LW2DPQmD
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Could be great for Arsenal's younger lads that are in the squad, not to mention England's future. And they say we have no talent.
 
I say this now, you guys will sign Hazard in the summer.

I say this now, we won't.

Doubt it. Would fit well, but don't think Arsene would spend that much.

Not about that. Lille (as with most French teams) are a selling club, but they're in the CL and Hazard doesn't really have much motivation (other than £ signs) to leave this season. He's also just signed a new contract and doesn't seem like the kind of player (from what I've read) who would push for a move this soon after contract talks.

What's more than likely is that he has signed a pre-agreement with the club to let him go next year if he still wants to and if there's a suitor.

Excellent player, would love to see him at Arsenal, but it won't happen IMO. He doesn't want to come to England anyway - prefers the Spanish option.

Could be great for Arsenal's younger lads that are in the squad, not to mention England's future. And they say we have no talent.

Indeed - glad to see Gibbs in there, and it is great for the younger players, but Jack Wilshere is now a First Team regular for Arsenal and England; why does he need to go?
 
I say this now, we won't.



Not about that. Lille (as with most French teams) are a selling club, but they're in the CL and Hazard doesn't really have much motivation (other than £ signs) to leave this season. He's also just signed a new contract and doesn't seem like the kind of player (from what I've read) who would push for a move this soon after contract talks.

What's more than likely is that he has signed a pre-agreement with the club to let him go next year if he still wants to and if there's a suitor.

Excellent player, would love to see him at Arsenal, but it won't happen IMO. He doesn't want to come to England anyway - prefers the Spanish option.



Indeed - glad to see Gibbs in there, and it is great for the younger players, but Jack Wilshere is now a First Team regular for Arsenal and England; why does he need to go?

The only logical(or near to) reason is to get him more big game international experience, as well as him being England's key player at the tournament.
 
The only logical(or near to) reason is to get him more big game international experience, as well as him being England's key player at the tournament.

But U21 football is no more "big game" than the Dallas Cup our Reserves took part in..

He'll be a key player in 2012 if he misses the U21s and stays fit (chances less likely if he plays this summer, meaning he'll play around 100 games non-stop in 2 years)
 
wow!

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---------- Post added at 04:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:43 PM ----------

i fear Wilshere will 'really' hit the wall. staggering 32apps and just 19. i might consider rest him for the u21 champs cup. and come next season like on october.
 
i fear Wilshere will 'really' hit the wall. staggering 32apps and just 19. i might consider rest him for the u21 champs cup. and come next season like on october.

No way; Wilshere's already said he's ready to play every single game if needed and he's desperate to go to the U21 Championship. He'll come back next season fitter and better than before (after his 4-week break).
 
Optimism; The most underrated thing on the planet.
 
No way; Wilshere's already said he's ready to play every single game if needed and he's desperate to go to the U21 Championship. He'll come back next season fitter and better than before (after his 4-week break).

I can tell if this is sarcastic :/

Assuming for a moment it isn't: I think Wenger and his staff know more than Wilshere what he's capable of. He's 19 and has played 50 times this season - his FIRST full season. He started off having to play - Diaby was injured, Rosicky not suitable for the role, Ramsey in rehabilitation after his leg-break etc. and then forced his way into Wenger's plans by playing incredibly well. You could tell by mid March, though that he was very tired and losing fitness (Thank God that Ramsey and Diaby are back) - another year at this level and he should be ready for a starting, (but not "key" per say) role in the Senior Squad's campaign in Poland/Ukraine and can then come back fit.

I fear he'll burn out even quicker next season (at least same kind of time) if he doesn't get a break in the Summer and then he'll go to the Euros unfit/tired and will miss half of our next season. It's bad for England and it's bad for Arsenal, really. The only one it benefits is Pearce,
 
I can tell if this is sarcastic :/

Assuming for a moment it isn't: I think Wenger and his staff know more than Wilshere what he's capable of. He's 19 and has played 50 times this season - his FIRST full season. He started off having to play - Diaby was injured, Rosicky not suitable for the role, Ramsey in rehabilitation after his leg-break etc. and then forced his way into Wenger's plans by playing incredibly well. You could tell by mid March, though that he was very tired and losing fitness (Thank God that Ramsey and Diaby are back) - another year at this level and he should be ready for a starting, (but not "key" per say) role in the Senior Squad's campaign in Poland/Ukraine and can then come back fit.

I fear he'll burn out even quicker next season (at least same kind of time) if he doesn't get a break in the Summer and then he'll go to the Euros unfit/tired and will miss half of our next season. It's bad for England and it's bad for Arsenal, really. The only one it benefits is Pearce,

pearce wouldnt take him if he thought he'd burn out, capello wouldnt back it he though he couldnt do for next summer. the U21 tournie is a big deal, we just (perhaps arrogantly) dismiss it in england. if he cant do it how how cane he do it when hes older at 26-27, there are plently of young players doing the same. its up to arsenal to also rotate him. other squads and players can cope, we have to man up when it comes to young english talent
 
pearce wouldnt take him if he thought he'd burn out, capello wouldnt back it he though he couldnt do for next summer. the U21 tournie is a big deal, we just (perhaps arrogantly) dismiss it in england. if he cant do it how how cane he do it when hes older at 26-27, there are plently of young players doing the same. its up to arsenal to also rotate him. other squads and players can cope, we have to man up when it comes to young english talent

Arsenal do have a role to play as well, but there's a lot of difference between being 19 and being 26 - at the peak of physical fitness and ability for most athletes/men!

Not sure there are many 19 year-olds with his energy playing 100 games every 2 years without break. I think Pearce wants to win this tournament, and I think he's being naive if he thinks Wilshere won't struggle for fitness when he comes back. He's only just getting back to full fitness now after a slight drop in form and obvious drop in fitness after (and including) the Carling Cup final.

Am all for developing players and winning tournaments with the U21s but I genuinely believe that they have a good chance without Wilshere - he's an excellent player but he can't make the difference on his own between winning and losing a competition and he's already made the step-up from U21 to the Senior side.

Pearce himself said that the point of the U21s was to prep players for the Seniors. He's done that with Wilshere.
 
Arsenal do have a role to play as well, but there's a lot of difference between being 19 and being 26 - at the peak of physical fitness and ability for most athletes/men!

Not sure there are many 19 year-olds with his energy playing 100 games every 2 years without break. I think Pearce wants to win this tournament, and I think he's being naive if he thinks Wilshere won't struggle for fitness when he comes back. He's only just getting back to full fitness now after a slight drop in form and obvious drop in fitness after (and including) the Carling Cup final.

Am all for developing players and winning tournaments with the U21s but I genuinely believe that they have a good chance without Wilshere - he's an excellent player but he can't make the difference on his own between winning and losing a competition and he's already made the step-up from U21 to the Senior side.

Pearce himself said that the point of the U21s was to prep players for the Seniors. He's done that with Wilshere.

with all due respect i think pearce knows exactly what to expect with wilshere after working him through the under 21s and hes talked about the long term of the squad, so he isnt going to jeopardise that for the trophy as you say its about preparatin and the under 21 tournament is a part of that. this will be wilsheres first major international tournament, carrys more weight than u19, which will leave him better prepared for the euros. I think you dismiss actually how important the U21 tournaments are
 
What Borussia Dortmund have that Arsenal lack - lessons the English 'nearly men' could learn from the Bundesliga champions

For Arsenal fans, the last six years have been a series of rollercoaster rides that have ended in comprehensive disappointment. No matter how convincing the Gunners have looked at times, each of their last five seasons has ended without silverware. And in a few weeks’ time, that number will reach six.

Arsenal’s trophy drought has led many to criticise coach Arsene Wenger for almost religiously adhering to a system promoting youth and a so-called "beautiful" style of play emphasising possession and creativity in attack. The critics claim he needs experience in his team and a bit more steel in defensive areas in order to end the title drought. However, a look to the Ruhr area reveals a glimmer of hope, that Wenger’s system may not be as romantic as it appears.

This year, Borussia Dortmund have blitzed the Bundesliga and became the youngest championship-winning team in the German league’s 48-year history. BVB and Arsenal have marked similarities in playing style, but their gap in success suggests that the English could learn a thing or two from the Bundesliga champions, whose mentality, defence, and sheer work rate were each as important as their flashy attack.

Like Wenger’s Arsenal, Jurgen Klopp’s side emphasises an attractive and forward-minded game. In some regards, the two teams also have similar character in midfield. For their respective clubs, Nuri Sahin and Cesc Fabregas are the central ball-players. Out wide, Theo Walcott and Kevin Grosskreutz play similar roles as quick, athletic wingers, while Samir Nasri and Mario Gotze provide creativity on the flanks. For all the similarities the two teams show in head-to-head comparison, however, the ways in which the players are utilised differ significantly.

In possession, Dortmund’s pace sets them apart: they have the technique to play "tiki-taka" football as Arsenal do, but choose to go straight for goal - and in doing so risk losing possession - rather than allow opponents time to regroup. When BVB win the ball, Sahin, and even centre-back Mats Hummels, play the ball upfield as quickly as possible to set up counterattacking opportunities. Even when opponents are defensively set, BVB make a point of one-touch passing their way from the midfield line to the penalty area in minimal time. Theirs is a different, more direct approach to "beautiful" football, one that creates more chances and goals despite the gulf of class between inconsistent BVB striker Lucas Barrios and Arsenal target man Robin van Persie.

The real tactical key to Dortmund’s success - and the defining difference between the German champions and Arsenal - is in defence. With two matches to play, Klopp’s men are on pace to set a new Bundesliga record for fewest goals conceded in a season. Their defensive success is due in part to individual class - centre-backs Hummels and Neven Subotic would be starters in almost any European team, and holding midfielder Sven Bender has justifiably been nicknamed 'The vacuum' - but the most striking feature of Klopp’s Dortmund is their effort. The team defends as a whole; no exceptions are made for wingers or forwards. In fact, it is the attacker Grosskreutz who puts in more work than other BVB players, with a per-game average distance covered in excess of 13 km. For all his pace, Walcott rarely comes close to this mark.

In fairness to Wenger, it would be a mistake to fault his team too much for tactical naivety. In big games, such as last week’s win against Manchester United and their 3-1 triumph against Chelsea in December, Arsenal regularly show their class. The trouble with a 38-game season is that it provides more than enough opportunities to lose focus and stumble in matches against lesser teams. For example, the Gunners followed up their dominant display against Chelsea with a meagre draw against lowly Wigan. It is almost as though the constant reminder of their trophy drought has pulled Arsenal back.

In Dortmund, the situation is different. Especially in the first half of the season, Klopp’s men won games against not only top opposition, but also the likes of Kaiserslautern and St Pauli. The Bundesliga title was never an expectation, and even though they entered the final stretch of the season with a double-digit points lead, any talk of the championship was considered taboo: the entire club refused to answer questions from reporters on the topic. Their silence and "one-step-at-a-time" approach diminished the nerves that so often take their toll on dark horse teams late in the spring.

There is no question that at least in sporting terms, Arsenal have had it tougher go than Dortmund have in recent years. Their trophy-laden recent history and contingent of well-known stars mean that they are always under pressure. Most of Dortmund’s stars only established themselves over the course of this season, and it took months for the Ruhr to finally be considered "champions in waiting." This season has been another failure for Arsenal, but Wenger can appreciate Dortmund's trophy as affirmation that his method can produce results. Arsenal can draw conclusions, both tactical and psychological, from BVB's successful Bundesliga season. With the right tweaks, the arch-idealist Wenger could see his masterplan come to fruition.
 
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