The Great San Marino Challenge

[wkdsoul]

Well i've sim'd a full season and made a note below of the final position, Money given for that finishing position (paid 14/6/10) and the next seasons TV revenue given (1/7/10).

[TABLE="width: 442"]
[TR]
[TD]Pos.[/TD]
[TD]Team[/TD]
[TD]Rep[/TD]
[TD]Final Pos. Cash[/TD]
[TD]TV Money[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]Juventus[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8506[/TD]
[TD]1.63m[/TD]
[TD]70.94m[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]Inter[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7595[/TD]
[TD]1.63m[/TD]
[TD]58.75m[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]AC Milan[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8725[/TD]
[TD]1.63m[/TD]
[TD]57.25m[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]Udinese[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7211[/TD]
[TD]1.63m[/TD]
[TD]37.93m[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]Napoli[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7299[/TD]
[TD]3.47m[/TD]
[TD]38.46m[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]Roma[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]8112[/TD]
[TD]3.39m[/TD]
[TD]47.65m[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]Parma[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6920[/TD]
[TD]3.30m[/TD]
[TD]32.40m[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]Fiorentina[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7702[/TD]
[TD]3.21m[/TD]
[TD]41.08m[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]Cagliari[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7020[/TD]
[TD]3.13m[/TD]
[TD]31.49m[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]Catania[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7002[/TD]
[TD]3.04m[/TD]
[TD]31.46m[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]Genoa[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7180[/TD]
[TD]3.04m[/TD]
[TD]32.50m[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]Palermo[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]7270[/TD]
[TD]2.95m[/TD]
[TD]33.03m[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]Novara[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6162[/TD]
[TD]2.86m[/TD]
[TD]18.80m[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]Atalanta[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6346[/TD]
[TD]2.78m[/TD]
[TD]20.36m[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]Lazio[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6698[/TD]
[TD]2.69m[/TD]
[TD]27.51m[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]Cesena[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6196[/TD]
[TD]2.60m[/TD]
[TD]17.35m[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]Bologna[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6392[/TD]
[TD]2.52m[/TD]
[TD]18.90m[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]Leece[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4905[/TD]
[TD]2.17m[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]Seina[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4953[/TD]
[TD]2.17m[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]Cheivo[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]5053[/TD]
[TD]2.17m[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


It would seen the club rep has a slight effect onthe extra cash you get from TV as well, with some teams finishing lower but getting a hike in money due to rep. I would suggest newly promoted teams get £15m over the 12 months, so £125,00 per month. The TV is paid in monthly.

Kandersson dunno if this helps and you wanna sit and/or make a ruling.

View attachment 207035

 

[jm426]

Also, I think the numbers I posted are probably the best we're going to get.. Unless somebody can find the exact scale set by the league.. Which I doubt.

The only thing I would change is that for the first 5 years in serie A, reduce the league table-related money (but NOT the 20MM that was lumped in in your initial calculation) by 73% in year 1, 63% in year 2, 53% in year 3, 43% in year 4, and 33% in year 5. Also, I think there should be a penalty applied to the fanbase-related segment, since 5% is based on the city's population, which is obviously lacking for SM.

This accounts for the fact that San Marino has no Serie A history between 1946 and 6 years before your first Serie A season (10/30 = ~33% base reduction, which is what you end up with after 5 years) and the fact that SM won't have been in SA for enough seasons to properly qualify for the 15% that's based on the last 5 years (15/5 = 3, 3/30 = 10%, which is what I've added back for each of the first 5 years)

After year 5, I suppose you should just keep reducing it by 33% for the lack of team history for the sake of simplicity. Alternatively, maybe knocking off 1-2% from the "penalty" each year from the 6th onwards would be a reasonable approximation.

Thoughts?


Also, if there's any interest, I can build and upload a spreadsheet where all you have to do is enter your current season number in Serie A, your table position for the past 5 years, and your current rep ranking in the league (i.e. 1 to 20) and have it spit out the correct (well, correct based on our calculations and assumptions) TV contract amount.
This would help ensure that everyone who chooses to edit in the TV contract is playing by the same rules by taking all the grunt work out of the process. Let me know if this seems like something you collectively would want.

----------
[EDIT]: This is kind of disappointing, most of our work seems to be for naught: Based on wkdsoul's numbers, the R^2 between Rep and TV money is .98 for all teams between 3rd and 17th in the table. There appears to be a fairly large bonus for the winning team as well as the runner up which skews the results beyond that point.

wkdsoul, if you were (auto)saving weekly/monthly, is there any chance you could run the sim again from about a month out, so we hopefully end up with a different winner? This would enable me to determine what the bonuses are, and if they too are related to club rep. Also, having an extra 15 data points would reaffirm the correlation I've found.

 

[Brian]

I presume the rep is based on the 30% fan base part of the deal?

 

[jm426]

I presume the rep is based on the 30% fan base part of the deal?

Assuming this is directed at my bit about the spreadsheet, yes, though the relationship goes the other way of course - rep would act as a proxy for the size of the fan base.

 

[kandersson]

I really appreciate all the effort you guys are putting into this. From what I've understood I think wkdsoul's suggestion of 15M/year could be reasonable. Of course we could try to get even more detailed info but honestly it sounds quite complicated to me

no official ruling about this yet so let me know what you think, or if you prefer other solutions including keep playing with the bug

 

[jm426]

From what I've understood I think wkdsoul's suggestion of 15M/year could be reasonable. Of course we could try to get even more detailed info but honestly it sounds quite complicated to me

To make it a bit friendlier for people who aren't too familiar with FMRTE/Genie Scout, we can set thresholds based on the number of stars on the club list. For example, 2 stars could be 15MM, 2.5 21MM, 3 30MM, 3.5 45MM etc. The numbers are for illustrative purposes only; if this is a route you like, I'll put in a few minutes to determine where the rep cutoffs are for each star level and figure out how much each one should be worth in TV money.

 

[wkdsoul]

I really appreciate all the effort you guys are putting into this. From what I've understood I think wkdsoul's suggestion of 15M/year could be reasonable. Of course we could try to get even more detailed info but honestly it sounds quite complicated to me

no official ruling about this yet so let me know what you think, or if you prefer other solutions including keep playing with the bug

I would suggest 15m a year for the first year in Serie A.

For following years..

The figure given for finishing position as above after the last game.
Then TV given as an agreed amount for positon (below), and extra amount which would be your club rep figure into millions.
ie Club rep 5000, extra cash given £5m
1st - £60m
2nd - £50m
3rd - £45m
4th-7th- £35m
8th - 12 - £25m
13th - 17th - £20m

Newly promoted - £15m.

So for finishing 8th with a club rep of 6523. you would get £31, 523,000.

Any thoughts?
3rd -

 

[kandersson]

To make it a bit friendlier for people who aren't too familiar with FMRTE/Genie Scout, we can set thresholds based on the number of stars on the club list. For example, 2 stars could be 15MM, 2.5 21MM, 3 30MM, 3.5 45MM etc. The numbers are for illustrative purposes only; if this is a route you like, I'll put in a few minutes to determine where the rep cutoffs are for each star level and figure out how much each one should be worth in TV money.

well I admit I know absolutely nothing about FMRTE! personally I think this idea of yours could work fine.

what I'd like to know is: once we have assigned a TV contracts value to SM do we need to change and update that every year? is there a way to make that automatic, like other clubs? can you see other clubs' values and try to emulate that?

always keep in mind I'm a total noob when it comes to editing

 

[jm426]

what I'd like to know is: once we have assigned a TV contracts value to SM do we need to change and update that every year? is there a way to make that automatic, like other clubs? can you see other clubs' values and try to emulate that?

Yeah, you would have to update it, but the extent of the effort required is literally 3 mouse clicks, typing in the dollar amount and changing the year, and one more mouse click.
In reality, to do it the slightly more robust way only adds in one tiny step of performing a search on the Serie A teams and sorting the results by rep.

I think wkdsoul may be on to something with the groupings of final positions. I'm going to test that now, will report back soon.

 

[wkdsoul]

I'll run a second one for you now Jim.

The idea above of the money groupings was just a guess, and the club rep into gold, anyone who has read/play an adventure game will easy recognise. lucky we dont have to roll dice and that amount to our total gold.. lol.

I'll also try and be the team that comes up from Serie B, and see what they get.

 

[PlaysWSquirrels]

To be completely honest--and most of you will probably disagree--the TV money isn't even necessary. The first couple years in Serie A should be tough and be about survival and slowly working your way to the top. Getting a free $15 mil before your first year (as realistic as it is) and buying a world class striker takes away any challenge there is.

 

[wkdsoul]

You dont get the £15m as a lump sum, its would be paid £125,000 per month as TV revenue is set out that way in the game, any increase in transfer revenue is very minimal.

 

[kandersson]

To be completely honest--and most of you will probably disagree--the TV money isn't even necessary. The first couple years in Serie A should be tough and be about survival and slowly working your way to the top. Getting a free $15 mil before your first year (as realistic as it is) and buying a world class striker takes away any challenge there is.

I'd be against the idea of a lump sum before season starts but a fair TV contract through the year would simply be a solution to a bug confirmed by SI itself.

I'm only a bit scared of using FMRTE etc as I heard it can increase chances of crashes or new bugs. So far (january 2015) I've been very lucky and never had a single crash (!!!) so I'm not sure I'd like to take a risk with real time editors and that's my main issue.

btw in first year of serie A I managed to rack up 15M euros just with co-ownerships

 

[PlaysWSquirrels]

I see, well that is certainly different. Guess I'll put my foot back in my mouth.

 

[jm426]

To be completely honest--and most of you will probably disagree--the TV money isn't even necessary. The first couple years in Serie A should be tough and be about survival and slowly working your way to the top. Getting a free $15 mil before your first year (as realistic as it is) and buying a world class striker takes away any challenge there is.

Funnily enough, in my few years of playing the game, I don't think I've ever paid more than $4.5MM (yes, dollars, so 3ish pounds) for a player, nor have I bought anyone over the age of 22. I just really enjoy amassing a ridiculously large stable of prospects. Keeps me interested after reaching the point where the league becomes a cakewalk.

 

[kandersson]

I see, well that is certainly different. Guess I'll put my foot back in my mouth.

no problem mate it will certainly make the game more challenging and probably will go on like this myself, though only beacuse I'm afraid of crashes . Also I have already exploited a bug in my favour (non-EU signings between Serie C2 and C1, wasn't aware though!) what goes around comes around...

I do believe people should have the right to eliminate the bug if there's a reasonable way.

 

[wkdsoul]

i presume with a more stead income of cash guaranteed through the year it'll mostly benefit the board laying out cash for upgrades and wages, more than anything else

 

[Aannddyy]

Like I said, Jim, my calculations were purely estimates, I was unaware of the 25%+5% ruling on club rep, I just went with the higher your rep the more you earn approach. I was also unaware that reputation would have such a huge impact on the teams TV money over a season.. This league is retarded.

How about we do something like this:

£17,000,000 standard share
+ £1,000,000 per league position
+ £10,000,000 league bonus [£2,500,000 2nd, 3rd + 4th]
+ Rep x1000 [rounded to nearest 500]
+ 1.5% bonus per league position [top 10 i.e 1st = +30%]
- 1.5% bonus per league position [bottom 10 i.e 20th = -30%]
- Time spent in league [minus by 30%,25%,20%,10%,5% after promotion]

I have found from the six teams I selected that there is very little difference. Think we could be on to a winner here:

[TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]My values[/TD]
[TD]FM values[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Juventus[/TD]
[TD]£71,500,000[/TD]
[TD]£70,940,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Inter[/TD]
[TD]£55,900,000[/TD]
[TD]£58,750,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Roma[/TD]
[TD]£49,000,000[/TD]
[TD]£47,750,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Novara[/TD]
[TD]£17,850,000[/TD]
[TD]£18,800,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Cesena[/TD]
[TD]£16,000,000[/TD]
[TD]£17,350,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bologna[/TD]
[TD]£18,350,000[/TD]
[TD]£18,900,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]








Juventus: 17,000,000 + 20,000,000 + 10,000,000 + 8,500,000 + 30% = £71,500,000
Novara: 17,000,000 + 8,000,000 + 6,000,000 - 19.5% - 30% = £17,850,000

My current San Marino game I finished 17th: 17,000,000 + 4,000,000 + 4,000,000 - 25.5% - 30% = £13,000,000

I know that looks complicated but if it was in the form of a spreadsheet [I suck at spreadsheets] then anybody could use it. I've tried to replicate the league positions as much as possible but without it giving a team like San Marino a huge amount of TV money upon joining the league.

To be completely honest--and most of you will probably disagree--the TV money isn't even necessary. The first couple years in Serie A should be tough and be about survival and slowly working your way to the top. Getting a free $15 mil before your first year (as realistic as it is) and buying a world class striker takes away any challenge there is.

If you go back a page or two you will see that I have uploaded screenshots of what the TV contract does to your finances, you receive a payment every two weeks or so, it's pretty simple. Also, I'm hopeful that your board should be able to recognise any TV money for the coming season, meaning the budgets may be more lucrative and they may be more willing to invest in the club facilities without having a huge bank balance.. As this is what happens for other clubs.

 

[djrobbied]

First season, just beat Udinese in a Friendly 1-0, will upload the screenshot for proof. What a mighty day for the Titani!

 

[wkdsoul]

Hey andy, the oly one i cant follow is the minus % for time in the league? Why is money llost purely for your 1st season after promotion etc? The 30% doesnt seem nescarry bolonga £18,350,000 is without the 30% taken and that looks right.

Other than that i cant fault the figures. Jim would be the guy for the SS i think.