The Liverpool Thread

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Anyone but Howard ******* Webb.

Well tbf in recent years Marriner has been helpful to Liverpool so lots of MUFC fans feeling aggrieved at the minute.

Let Gerrard off without even a booking when he flicked the 'V' sign at him, didn't send of Carragher at Anfield in 09 when he took Owen down when he was last man. Didn't award the Carrick penalty either and sent off Vidic.
 
Well tbf in recent years Marriner has been helpful to Liverpool so lots of MUFC fans feeling aggrieved at the minute.

Let Gerrard off without even a booking when he flicked the 'V' sign at him, didn't send of Carragher at Anfield in 09 when he took Owen down when he was last man. Didn't award the Carrick penalty either and sent off Vidic.

Still better than Atkinson.

I'm happy that Webb is also not involved. Made so many **** ups against us in the recent games. Have to check whether he is on our pay roll or Chelsea's.
 
Well tbf in recent years Marriner has been helpful to Liverpool so lots of MUFC fans feeling aggrieved at the minute.

Let Gerrard off without even a booking when he flicked the 'V' sign at him, didn't send of Carragher at Anfield in 09 when he took Owen down when he was last man. Didn't award the Carrick penalty either and sent off Vidic.

Tbf, he didn't send off Neville vs Stoke last season. At least its not Atkinson!
 
Well tbf in recent years Marriner has been helpful to Liverpool so lots of MUFC fans feeling aggrieved at the minute.

Let Gerrard off without even a booking when he flicked the 'V' sign at him, didn't send of Carragher at Anfield in 09 when he took Owen down when he was last man. Didn't award the Carrick penalty either and sent off Vidic.

All excellent stuff; now you know how we feel when Howard 'the mancer' Webb hoves into view to personally fubar our games.
 
Liverpool seek TV breakaway from Premier League

Tony Barrett
1 minute ago

Liverpool have signalled their desire to break away from the rest of the Premier League and negotiate their own overseas TV rights deal.

The club believe that they are not getting a fair deal from the collective bargaining model that shares the £1.4 billion, three-year contract evenly between all 20 top-flight sides, who each received £17.9 million last season.

Liverpool argue that they would be able to negotiate a far more lucrative contract independently and, if they are successful, they could pave the way for other high-profile clubs, such as Manchester United, to follow suit.

Smaller clubs will be dismayed by the plans, though, feeling that the end of collective bargaining will only widen the gap in wealth.

Liverpool and United counter this by saying their prime motive is to stay competitive with the other leading clubs in Europe, such as Real Madrid and Barcelona, who are able to negotiate lucrative individual contracts for global TV rights. On top of that, Liverpool warn of the threat to the Premier League’s status as world football’s most profitable and popular league unless its biggest clubs are able to keep pace with the Spanish giants.

Ian Ayre, the Liverpool managing director, said: “If Real Madrid or Barcelona or other big European clubs have the opportunity to truly realise their international media value, where does that leave Liverpool and Man United? We’ll just share ours because we’ll all be nice to each other?

“But the whole phenomenon of the Premier League could be threatened. If they just get bigger and bigger and they generate more and more, then all the players will start drifting that way, won’t they, and will the Premier League bubble be burst because we are sticking to this equal-sharing model? It’s a real debate that has to happen.”


The league’s international television rights deal expires at the end of the 2012-13 season and Ayre has questioned whether it should be renewed. A recent report by Sport+Markt estimated that the Premier League’s global fanbase is 1.46 billion strong — 70 per cent of the world’s estimated 2.08 billion football fans — and that the television audience for games has risen to 4.7 billion across 212 countries.

But with Real and Barcelona having deals with Mediapro until at least 2012-13 that will contribute broadcasting revenues of, on average, approximately £136 million each season, Ayre fears that such dominance could come under threat.

Ayre is happy to see the status quo maintained where domestic TV rights are concerned, readily conceding that take-up of the Sky package is not dependent on the popularity of particular clubs. But he insists the situation is different overseas given the massive following that Liverpool and United boast abroad, in Asia and the Far East especially.

“Maybe the path will be individual TV rights like they do in Spain,” he said.“There are so many things moving in that area. What is certain is that, with the greatest of respect to our colleagues in the Premier League, if you’re a Bolton fan in Bolton, then you subscribe to Sky because you want to watch Bolton, and everyone gets that.

“Likewise, if you’re a Liverpool fan from Liverpool, you subscribe. But if you’re in Kuala Lumpur there isn’t anyone subscribing to Astro or ESPN to watch Bolton, or if they are it’s a very small number. The large majority are subscribing because they want to watch Liverpool, Manchester United, Chelsea or Arsenal. So is it right that the international rights are shared equally between all the clubs?”


Liverpool are likely to raise the issue at the next Premier League meeting. For the present situation to be changed, the proposition would be voted on by the 20 clubs and would need a two-thirds majority — 14 clubs in favour — for any amendments to be implemented.

At present there does not appear to be a groundswell of support for what would amount to a revolution. In a recent interview Mr. Ferguson claimed that“whatever we get [in TV revenue] is not enough”, but the United manager qualified his statement with an admission that “it is fair” that the proceeds are shared evenly.

Ayre, though, believes that the present situation should be debated at least and while Ferguson may not be supportive, the Glazer family, who own United, could be natural allies given their determination to maximise the club’s revenue potential overseas.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/football/clubs/liverpool/article3191498.ece

Liverpool hold heads up higher after walking through storm

Tony Barrett
1 minute ago

What a difference a year makes. This time 12 months ago, Liverpool were in the midst of their worst start to a season for 57 years having just lost at home to Blackpool. That, though, was not even the worst of it. At the High Court in London, a battle for the ownership of the club was taking place in the knowledge that debts in excess of £200 million were putting them at risk of going into administration.

Such a scenario might have been unthinkable at the time and unimaginable now given Liverpool’s sporting renaissance and return to fiscal health under the guidance of Fenway Sports Group (FSG). But Ian Ayre, the Liverpool managing director, admits that the threat of RBS, the club’s creditor, calling in its debts in the event of Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr thwarting FSG’s takeover bid was very real.

“Certainly the bank had the power to call in the debt and at the time there wasn’t anyone ready to take on that debt,”
Ayre said. “So I guess the answer to that is yes we could have gone into administration. It’s hypothetical but based on where we were and based on the circumstances at the time, that was a very real threat.

“The most difficult part of it was that it was a financial issue — the ability of the club to continue to invest in the team with the growing level of debt that existed. The commercial part of the business was continuing to grow but the disenfranchising of fans started to kill even that. What you had was a domino effect of things. Debt was going up and the cost of servicing the debt was beyond what we felt was reasonable.”


It was the determination of Ayre and his fellow board members, Martin Broughton and Christian Purslow, respectively the chairman and chief executive at the time, to push through the sale to FSG that triggered the court battle that took Liverpool to the brink. Almost a year on from their date with destiny, the trio have already received a first anniversary present from Hicks and Gillett.

“We were all served with papers seeking damages for £1 billion and those lawsuits are ongoing,” Ayre said. “They continue the litigation process. They seem intent on following that. We still feel very confident that we did the right thing and will defend that position.

“The next stage in that, I believe, is October 31, when our latest responses to their claims will be heard. The sad thing about it is that they have lost twice yet continue. It’s just a distraction when everyone is moving on, moving forward and making progress.”


The strides that have been taken since then are marked, with the rebirth of the club book-ended by a defeat by Everton and a victory over their local rivals (both fixtures ended 2-0). FSG’s decision to replace the hugely unpopular Roy Hodgson as manager with the hugely popular Kenny Dalglish may not have required much imagination or vision but, at a stroke, it restored harmony and offered Liverpool a route out of an on-pitch malaise that had threatened to consume them.

“I think Kenny’s appointment is the catalyst to what we have achieved,”Ayre said. “It wasn’t lucky. The owners made a very wise decision. It brought everyone together.”

For Ayre, such improvements represent the base level of his and FSG’s ambitions — “What has happened since is what should exactly be happening at this club no matter who owns it,” is his way of describing their shared expectations.

The next stage of the rebirth is to give Liverpool a platform to compete with their rivals at home and abroad, with a conclusion to their stadium saga one of their most pressing concerns. The possibility of refurbishing Anfield appears increasingly remote, thereby escalating the need to find a naming rights partner to sponsor a proposed new stadium on Stanley Park.

“It is essential for us to do something on the stadium,” Ayre said. “We have been in discussions here and in other parts of the world with a small group of people that we have narrowed down for naming rights.

“But just like the deal we have done with Standard Chartered and some other deals, you don’t go and ask for that size of opportunity overnight. We have to weed through the people who realistically could do it and then work through their organisation before getting to the guy who hopefully is going to write the cheque.

“What a new stadium does is get us on par. If we are back in Europe, back in the Champions League, back being a top-four club on a consistent basis, then we’d still have a hole without it.”

Number crunching

£184.5m

Liverpool’s annual turnover, according to their most recent financial report.

£418m

Real Madrid’s recently announced annual turnover, a world record.

80,000

The number of fans who attended Liverpool’s pre-season friendly against a Malaysian XI in Kuala Lumpur last summer.

45,276

The capacity of Anfield, 30,000 less than Old Trafford and the Bernabéu, and 54,000 fewer seats than the Nou Camp.
 
"The socialism I believe in is everyone working for each other, everyone having a share of the rewards. It's the way I see football, the way I see life" - Bill Shankly.

I remember several Liverpool fans laying to SAF about his comments on TV money, despite him actually saying its fair that the money is shared and that United had no intention of breaking way. Wonder what their views are now Liverpool are actively looking to break away...
 
"The socialism I believe in is everyone working for each other, everyone having a share of the rewards. It's the way I see football, the way I see life" - Bill Shankly.

I remember several Liverpool fans laying to SAF about his comments on TV money, despite him actually saying its fair that the money is shared and that United had no intention of breaking way. Wonder what their views are now Liverpool are actively looking to break away...


I sincerely hope this breakaway attempt is curbed.... I think that in the long-term, such attempts will only reduce the quality of the Premiere League and widen the gap massively between the big clubs and smaller clubs and I am very happy with this collective bargaining agreement, it offers everyone an equal share of the rewards and bigger clubs are given incentives as well and everyone is happy in the end, why change for the sake of change

And what of the smaller clubs, the main reason why the PLM is so attractive and why potential investors from around the world actually invest in these smaller clubs is because they know that if they get to the PLM, they will be financially boosted and they have a real chance of staying there... allowing clubs to negotiate their own tv deals will reduce such incentives and could see more clubs going into administration compared to the small minority of clubs in england who will actually benefit from this


And even though our revenue may not be as high as the bigger clubs in Europe such as Barcelona and Real Madrid, I feel i rather the current system rather than a system where the very existence of the Premiere League will lie in the hands of the big clubs and owners and investors will start pulling their money out of smaller clubs because the costs of running the club year in and year out with lesser tv money will far outweigh the benefits
 
"The socialism I believe in is everyone working for each other, everyone having a share of the rewards. It's the way I see football, the way I see life" - Bill Shankly.

I remember several Liverpool fans laying to SAF about his comments on TV money, despite him actually saying its fair that the money is shared and that United had no intention of breaking way. Wonder what their views are now Liverpool are actively looking to break away...

I don't agree with Ayre. From a Liverpool fan. I'll give my reasons when I have a bit more time but basically his logic is very much flawed concerning his comments on the Spanish league, they will destroy themselves.
 
"The socialism I believe in is everyone working for each other, everyone having a share of the rewards. It's the way I see football, the way I see life" - Bill Shankly.

I remember several Liverpool fans laying to SAF about his comments on TV money, despite him actually saying its fair that the money is shared and that United had no intention of breaking way. Wonder what their views are now Liverpool are actively looking to break away...

How can he say 'we deserve morre money' then say 'it's fair' uber out of context quoting? Probably. Pretty sure he just said 'we deserve more money' and I couldn't disagree with him. The Premier league TV rights are sold to over 200 countries across the world and United are rewarding with less than £18m? Do me a favour.

In all honesty it was obvious something like this was coming, the premier league make £1.4bn over a three-year contract, I'm pretty sure Liverpool, United & Chelsea would make up for at least 70% of that money. I mean would people from China really want to be tuning into Bolton v Stoke or Wigan v Fulham? Selling international rights individually is the way forward for the biggest clubs but will really **** up the smaller clubs and we will probably see the sort of thing we see in La Liga for their domestic rights. £150m per year for the big boys then 50p for everyone else. Somebody will end up losing out.

[I actually didn't read any of the article but now I have I've realised I said literally said the thing as Ayre. Fail. Although I don't agree on his views of Spanish football, **** that. In fact I almost think he is a total moron for saying something like that.]
 
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"You can't buy history", as Liverpool fans are keen to tell me at every possibility.

Apparently you can sell your soul though...
 
How can he say 'we deserve morre money' then say 'it's fair' uber out of context quoting? Probably. Pretty sure he just said 'we deserve more money' and I couldn't disagree with him. The Premier league TV rights are sold to over 200 countries across the world and United are rewarding with less than £18m? Do me a favour.

In all honesty it was obvious something like this was coming, the premier league make £1.4bn over a three-year contract, I'm pretty sure Liverpool, United & Chelsea would make up for at least 70% of that money. I mean would people from China really want to be tuning into Bolton v Stoke or Wigan v Fulham? Selling international rights individually is the way forward for the biggest clubs but will really **** up the smaller clubs and we will probably see the sort of thing we see in La Liga for their domestic rights. £150m per year for the big boys then 50p for everyone else. Somebody will end up losing out.

[I actually didn't read any of the article but now I have I've realised I said literally said the thing as Ayre. Fail. Although I don't agree on his views of Spanish football, **** that. In fact I almost think he is a total moron for saying something like that.]


you are right in most part that the main reason the PLM is watched all over the world is because of a select few clubs and this is more or less the same argument posed by Barcelona and RM that they bring the most money into La Liga and thus, they should reap most of the benefits but the main crux of the matter is that a league is made up of 20 teams and not 2 or 3 teams and we need to think of the smaller clubs if we want to continue expanding the growth of the PLM...
 
How can he say 'we deserve morre money' then say 'it's fair' uber out of context quoting? Probably. Pretty sure he just said 'we deserve more money' and I couldn't disagree with him. The Premier league TV rights are sold to over 200 countries across the world and United are rewarding with less than £18m? Do me a favour.

In all honesty it was obvious something like this was coming, the premier league make £1.4bn over a three-year contract, I'm pretty sure Liverpool, United & Chelsea would make up for at least 70% of that money. I mean would people from China really want to be tuning into Bolton v Stoke or Wigan v Fulham? Selling international rights individually is the way forward for the biggest clubs but will really **** up the smaller clubs and we will probably see the sort of thing we see in La Liga for their domestic rights. £150m per year for the big boys then 50p for everyone else. Somebody will end up losing out.

[I actually didn't read any of the article but now I have I've realised I said literally said the thing as Ayre. Fail. Although I don't agree on his views of Spanish football, **** that. In fact I almost think he is a total moron for saying something like that.]

By "we" he was talking about the clubs in in general and not just United, when you consider how much the clubs get and then how much the premier league and FIFA get. Wasnt aimed at you to be honest.

But I dont want to see it happen, i would be livid if United ever broke away. It would destroy the league in the long run
 
I'd hope this happens as it completely makes sense. The only teams supported in china are liverpool and united, and maybe chelsea to a smaller degree, so why should wolves or sunderland receive the same amount for those tv deals.

It won't end up as bad as la liga as all the domestic tv rights will be shared the same way they always have, whereas in la liga they split that the same way they split the international tv rights (between barca and real).

But it'll never get voted on anyway. It needs 2/3 support, and with only 3 or 4 clubs benefiting, why would the smaller clubs vote in favour? Ah well.
 
I'd hope this happens as it completely makes sense. The only teams supported in china are liverpool and united, and maybe chelsea to a smaller degree, so why should wolves or sunderland receive the same amount for those tv deals.

It won't end up as bad as la liga as all the domestic tv rights will be shared the same way they always have, whereas in la liga they split that the same way they split the international tv rights (between barca and real).

But it'll never get voted on anyway. It needs 2/3 support, and with only 3 or 4 clubs benefiting, why would the smaller clubs vote in favour? Ah well.

Because as much as United and Liverpool, stoke sunderland are also integral part of the league.

Big clubs might say ManUtd Vs Arsenal draws more viewers than say Stoke Vs Wigan but no one gives a **** about ManUtd Vs Arsenal if they keep playing week in week out. Every club in the league deserves fair share as all the clubs are responsible for the growth of the league and making it arguable best in the world.

If big clubs want to sell the rights by their own then we will be seeing smaller clubs threatening to form their own league like Sevilla, Villareal presidents said.
 
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It won't end up as bad as la liga as all the domestic tv rights will be shared the same way they always have, whereas in la liga they split that the same way they split the international tv rights (between barca and real).

It's a slippery slope. Who's to say this won't be the next step?

Either way, it'll definitely massively widen the gap in the Prem.
 
Manchester United and Chelsea refuse to back Liverpool breakaway plan

• Rivals clubs distance themselves from TV rights proposal
Liverpool want overseas rights sold on club-by-club basis

Manchester United and Chelsea are among several clubs who have moved to distance themselves from Liverpool's proposal to break from the Premier League's model of collecting television rights revenue.
It is understood that Manchester United, who claim to have 333m fans globally and have targeted overseas sponsorship revenue as a route to increase income, will oppose any moves to challenge the status quo under which the Premier League sells television rights overseas on behalf of all 20 elite clubs.

A spokesman for Chelsea said: "We are supportive of the Premier League on this and want to continue with the way they sell [TV rights] collectively."

United insiders pointed out that their chief executive, David Gill, had repeatedly underlined the support of the club's owners, the Glazer family, for the collective model. Appearing before a parliamentary inquiry earlier this year, Gill said: "The collective selling of the television rights has clearly been a success and it has made things more competitive."

It is understood that Arsenal, Manchester City and Tottenham Hotspur will continue to back the existing arrangement that last season paid each club £17.9m.

The public stance of other big clubs will come as a disappointment to Liverpool, who were understood to believe that others would support them. Liverpool's managing director, Ian Ayre, said that clubs in other countries, notably Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spain, have a growing financial advantage over English clubs because they secure TV deals individually.

Without the support of those who stand to benefit most the idea would be dead in the water, because none of the League's smaller clubs would vote for something that would hugely disadvantage them.
Overseas revenues could outstrip the domestic deal, currently worth £2.1bn over three years, for the first time when the Premier League launches its tender process next year.

Liverpool would need to persuade 13 of their fellow Premier League clubs of the merit of the plan in order to force through the change since any significant change to the Premier League rulebook requires a two thirds majority.
Ayre became the first representative of a leading Premier League club since Peter Kenyon at Manchester United in 2003 to challenge the collective sale of overseas TV rights, which brought in £1.4bn over the three years to 2012-13.

Ayre said: "Is it right that the international rights are shared equally between all the clubs? Some people will say: 'Well you've got to all be in it to make it happen.' But isn't it really about where the revenue is coming from, which is the broadcaster, and isn't it really about who people want to watch on that channel? We know it is us. And others.

"At some point we feel there has to be some rebalance on that, because what we are actually doing is disadvantaging ourselves against other big European clubs."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/...united-chelsea-liverpool-breakaway?CMP=twt_gu

So ManUtd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, ManCity support premier league model of collective deal. Well done.
 
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The reaction to Ayre's quotes (particularly from Utd blogs) has been quite funny.
 
So ManUtd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, ManCity support premier league model of collective deal. Well done.

Excellent. Liverpool could never convince any others past them to join the cause, so as long as those clubs remain against it we're safe.
 
I'd hope this happens as it completely makes sense. The only teams supported in china are liverpool and united, and maybe chelsea to a smaller degree, so why should wolves or sunderland receive the same amount for those tv deals.

It won't end up as bad as la liga as all the domestic tv rights will be shared the same way they always have, whereas in la liga they split that the same way they split the international tv rights (between barca and real).

But it'll never get voted on anyway. It needs 2/3 support, and with only 3 or 4 clubs benefiting, why would the smaller clubs vote in favour? Ah well.

If wolves and sunderland weren't there, then there would be no games for United, Liverpool etc. to play against, and there'd be no market for games any more. Plus, one of the reasons the PL is so popular because of the perceived competitiveness compared to La Liga.
 
Well tbf in recent years Marriner has been helpful to Liverpool so lots of MUFC fans feeling aggrieved at the minute.

Let Gerrard off without even a booking when he flicked the 'V' sign at him

Just wanna bring something up here, re the bold and underlined point.

This really irritates me, can I just ask what's different between this, and Rooney telling ref's to **** off week in, week out and not getting cautioned for it?
 
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