The Liverpool Thread

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Rangers FC and Liverpool FC fans are to unite for a charity collection to commemorate the disasters that have sadly marked the history of both clubs - and they want your help! The funds will be split with half going towards a permanent memorial at the Ibrox Disaster site in memory of those who lost their lives, and half will be donated to the Hillsborough Family Support​

 
http://twitter.com/#!/KingJames

LeBron James will be at Anfield for tomorrows game :D

---------- Post added at 08:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:26 PM ----------

United travel to Merseyside after having their ticket allocation significantly reduced due to previous encounters, and have been urged by the Red Devils boss not to stand throughout the game, something that has become a tradition with the club's supporters.

The Scot is well aware of the importance of Saturday’s game to both sets of fans, with the clubs representing the two biggest cities in the north west of England, but feels that the two sides should be respectful of each other’s histories, and avoid chants that aim to offend one another.

“Both clubs’ history should be appreciated by each other’s sets of fans," Ferguson told reporters.

"That's sometimes annoying when I hear silly chants about Munich, about Hillsborough, I don't think it does either club any good at all because, without each other, there wouldn't be the English league."

The two sides have won 37 titles between them, and are the two most successful clubs in England by a long distance, creating a bitter rivalry between them.

But the United boss was keen to address both sets of fans ahead of Saturday’s game in an attempt to calm the air, insisting that this game is what it is because of the atmosphere generated by the supporters.

He added: "If it came to a stage where fans were banned from each other's ground, it wouldn't really be the same game. We need each other in that respect.

"The respect, in terms of the history of both clubs, should be adhered to and hopefully we can see that because it's a fantastic occasion.


Finally Ferguson says something I agree with.
 
So Lucas suspended for Norwich at home. Really hope Henderson's played in the middle, looked much better there rather than pushed out on the right.

---------- Post added 17/10/2011 at 12:04 AM ---------- Previous post was 16/10/2011 at 12:33 PM ----------

Liverpool have given their firm backing to Luis Suárez over his denial that he racially abused Patrice Evra at Anfield on Saturday – and want the Manchester United defender to receive a ban from the Football Association should his accusations prove groundless.

The Uruguay international has vehemently denied Evra's allegations that he racially abused him during Liverpool's 1-1 draw with United and will fight to clear his name if the FA decides to open a disciplinary case.

Suárez has also received a show of support from his employers. A Liverpool spokesman said: "Luis is adamant that he has not used language of that nature and the club is totally supportive of the player."

The inquiry will begin with the FA asking to speak to Evra on Monday to ascertain whether he intends to make an official complaint. Evra's accusation is that he was called "a ******" – the Senegal-born Frenchman said he heard it "at least 10 times" – but Suárez insists it is not true.

"I'm upset by the accusations of racism," he said. "I can only say that I have always respected, and respect, everybody. We are all the same." Liverpool have accepted Suárez's version of events and, given the potential repercussions for their striker if Evra's allegations are proven, believe the France international should have a disciplinary case to answer if allegations of this magnitude are dropped.

Evra, accompanied by Mr. Ferguson, asked to see the referee Andre Marriner, after the match to report the alleged incidents and later expressed his anger in an interview with Canal Plus.

"In 2011, there are things you can't say any more," he said. "The referee knows and there will be an investigation. But I don't want to repeat what he said." The interviewer asked if Suárez had used racist words and he replied: "Yes, he did. We can see thanks to the television what he said. He said it at least 10 times. We can read it on his lips."

Evra's complaints have been included in Marriner's match report but the referee has also informed the FA and the Premier League that the first he knew of it was after the match. The two players could be seen exchanging words at various points of the second half but it may count against Evra that he did not raise the alleged offence with Marriner during the game.

On that basis, Evra will almost certainly need back-up statements from his United team-mates if the FA is to decide there is evidence to make a case against Suárez. United would not say if there were witnesses to Evra's allegations but, without them, the authorities may decide it is a case of one man's word against another.

In 2008 Evra was at the centre of accusations that he was racially abused by a groundsman at Chelsea while warming down. But an FA hearing into the allegation – which was made by a Manchester United employee – found that it was not proven. Evra was subsequently banned for four games and fined £15,000 for his part in the post-match altercation with the groundsman. The controversy comes at a particularly bad time given that Saturday's match launched Kick It Out's three-week "One Game, One Community" action programme, with players from both sides wearing anti-racism T-shirts, and every manager through the leagues wearing one of the organisation's badges.

A message was read out before the game saying that Liverpool did not tolerate racism of any form, and there was a message in the club programme, including a telephone number for supporters to report anyone guilty of offences.

Lord Herman Ouesley, the chairman of Kick It Out, said any footballer guilty of racism should face "severe action" both from the FA and the player's club, but "you would have to be able to prove it beyond reasonable doubt".

He added: "There were incidents in the second half and Evra seemed to get very agitated so something was obviously bugging him because he was quite incensed. But if this happened he should have brought it to the attention of the referee at the time."

Liverpool want Patrice Evra ban if Luis Suárez race claim is groundless | Football | The Guardian
 
Considering the Rangers V Liverpool game is mainly to raise funds for both clubs and the tragic events that took place, I fully expect the atmosphere to be amazing!

However, I'll be annoyed if Carragher, Gerrard, Suarez, Downing, Enrique play, don't want to risk any injuries.
 
So Lucas suspended for Norwich at home. Really hope Henderson's played in the middle, looked much better there rather than pushed out on the right.

---------- Post added 17/10/2011 at 12:04 AM ---------- Previous post was 16/10/2011 at 12:33 PM ----------

Liverpool have given their firm backing to Luis Suárez over his denial that he racially abused Patrice Evra at Anfield on Saturday – and want the Manchester United defender to receive a ban from the Football Association should his accusations prove groundless.

The Uruguay international has vehemently denied Evra's allegations that he racially abused him during Liverpool's 1-1 draw with United and will fight to clear his name if the FA decides to open a disciplinary case.

Suárez has also received a show of support from his employers. A Liverpool spokesman said: "Luis is adamant that he has not used language of that nature and the club is totally supportive of the player."

The inquiry will begin with the FA asking to speak to Evra on Monday to ascertain whether he intends to make an official complaint. Evra's accusation is that he was called "a ******" – the Senegal-born Frenchman said he heard it "at least 10 times" – but Suárez insists it is not true.

"I'm upset by the accusations of racism," he said. "I can only say that I have always respected, and respect, everybody. We are all the same." Liverpool have accepted Suárez's version of events and, given the potential repercussions for their striker if Evra's allegations are proven, believe the France international should have a disciplinary case to answer if allegations of this magnitude are dropped.

Evra, accompanied by Mr. Ferguson, asked to see the referee Andre Marriner, after the match to report the alleged incidents and later expressed his anger in an interview with Canal Plus.

"In 2011, there are things you can't say any more," he said. "The referee knows and there will be an investigation. But I don't want to repeat what he said." The interviewer asked if Suárez had used racist words and he replied: "Yes, he did. We can see thanks to the television what he said. He said it at least 10 times. We can read it on his lips."

Evra's complaints have been included in Marriner's match report but the referee has also informed the FA and the Premier League that the first he knew of it was after the match. The two players could be seen exchanging words at various points of the second half but it may count against Evra that he did not raise the alleged offence with Marriner during the game.

On that basis, Evra will almost certainly need back-up statements from his United team-mates if the FA is to decide there is evidence to make a case against Suárez. United would not say if there were witnesses to Evra's allegations but, without them, the authorities may decide it is a case of one man's word against another.

In 2008 Evra was at the centre of accusations that he was racially abused by a groundsman at Chelsea while warming down. But an FA hearing into the allegation – which was made by a Manchester United employee – found that it was not proven. Evra was subsequently banned for four games and fined £15,000 for his part in the post-match altercation with the groundsman. The controversy comes at a particularly bad time given that Saturday's match launched Kick It Out's three-week "One Game, One Community" action programme, with players from both sides wearing anti-racism T-shirts, and every manager through the leagues wearing one of the organisation's badges.

A message was read out before the game saying that Liverpool did not tolerate racism of any form, and there was a message in the club programme, including a telephone number for supporters to report anyone guilty of offences.

Lord Herman Ouesley, the chairman of Kick It Out, said any footballer guilty of racism should face "severe action" both from the FA and the player's club, but "you would have to be able to prove it beyond reasonable doubt".

He added: "There were incidents in the second half and Evra seemed to get very agitated so something was obviously bugging him because he was quite incensed. But if this happened he should have brought it to the attention of the referee at the time."

Liverpool want Patrice Evra ban if Luis Suárez race claim is groundless | Football | The Guardian

interesting yet flawed. isnt as simple as one or the other gets banned. Suarez could have said something that wasnt picked up fully by Cameras, or equally said something that has been misheard or misinterpreted by Evra, still quite an obvious grey area in which no action could and should be taken.
 
Ten times?! Hmm. Sounds a bit excessive to me.

He has a history of false accusations. Couldn't imagine Suarez would be so narrow minded considering he's a close friend of Abel Hernandez and plays for the same club as Glen Johnson..
 
He has a history of false accusations. Couldn't imagine Suarez would be so narrow minded considering he's a close friend of Abel Hernandez and plays for the same club as Glen Johnson..

again thats bollocks. he didnt accuse Finnan, and the grounskeeper wasnt proved either way and he didnt accuse him either (since it wasnt caught on camera) however he was right about abuse at Inter milan and Roma.

Also second sentence doesnt mean much, Barcelona have Abidal and Alves, and yet their fans, and also on two occasions their players racially abuse others.
 
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For what it's worth im not saying Suarez did say it, in fact i hopes its crossed wires, something misheard by Evra. but let's not be so partisian over it
 
worthy of a repost here given it involves both clubs:

[h=1]How Patrice Evra has never played the race card and why assumptions are dangerous[/h]http://therepublikofmancunia.com/how-patrice-evra-has-never-played-the-race-card-and-why-assumptions-are-dangerous/

October 17, 2011 9 Comments
Football can do a lot of things. It can turn completely stable people into emotional wrecks, it can play with our emotions like nothing else, save perhaps a member of the opposite ***. In short, it’s a very powerful thing. One thing it should not do, however, is to change our perspective. Not footballing perspective, of course you should feel free to argue that your team is better than my team, your fans are louder than my fans, your grass is greener than our grass. But our general perspective, such as the ability to analyse a serious claim, should be unmoved by which football team we hope scores more goals than the other.
On Saturday, Patrice Evra of Manchester United accused Luis Suarez of Liverpool of making racist remarks towards him.

Unfortunately, though the ‘of”s in the previous sentence should not be of importance, they have been made so. It has become about football. This is not an incident about football. It took place on a football pitch, between two men wearing football shirts, but it’s not about football. To bastardise a famous Bill Shankly quote, it’s much more important than that.

Immediately after the allegations were made, a lot of people reacted based on which team they supported. United fans were quick to label Suarez a racist, with certainty, whilst Liverpool fans accused Evra of lying, also with certainty.

The latter however, took a somewhat more sinister form. Liverpool fans, and employees, claimed Evra had a history of playing the ‘race card’. For those who don’t know, the race card refers to exploitation of racist attitudes to gain a personal advantage, typically by falsely accusing others of racism against oneself. In essence, they were saying Evra had in the past lied about being targeted by racial abuse. A very serious claim, I’m sure you’ll agree. It stands to reason that if it is a serious thing to claim racist abuse, it is also a serious thing to claim someone has lied about claiming racial abuse.


Liverpool’s official website columnist, Kristian Walsh, claimed on Twitter that “Patrice Evra has accused racism of three players before today. All three have been cleared.” This tweet was retweeted by hundreds of Liverpool fans, as were similar ones. The problem was, that is wasn’t remotely true, not one bit.


In fact, before Saturday, Evra had accused zero people of racism, not the three quoted by Mr. Walsh and dozens of other Liverpool fans, not two, nor even one. There have been two incidents involving Evra and accusations of racial insults, the only problem is that Evra did not claim in either that he was racially abused – the claims came from others.


In the 2006 case of claimed racial abuse by Steve Finnan, the accusation was levelled at Finnan by a deaf fan who claimed he lip-read the racial slur. Evra declined to complain. A rather odd thing to do for a man with a supposed inclination to play the race card, I’m sure you’ll agree.


In the case with involving Chelsea groundsman, Tony Bethell, it was Mike Phelan and Richard Hartis of Manchester United’s coaching staff who claimed they heard the abuse. As the FA report says “The two witnesses who say they heard those words directed by Mr Bethell at Mr Evra are the Manchester United first team coach Mr Mike Phelan and the goalkeeping coach Mr Richard Hartis.” It later goes on to say “Even if we disregard the fact that Mr Evra has never claimed to have heard such a remark on that day, it is notable that there were several other people far nearer to Mr Bethell at the critical point in time than were either Mr Phelan or Mr Hartis.”


So in reality, Evra accused neither Finnan nor Bethell of a racist remark. The claims were done by others. These are the cold, hard facts.


Liverpool is a club that has been hit hard by lies in the past, namely by the despicable Kelvin Mackenzie and the Sun. One might therefore assume that their fans would be careful to ensure that they themselves endeavor to have the full facts of any case emerge. Of course, accusations of racism against Luis Suarez and accusations of the actions of fans on a day where 96 people died are on different scales, however the principle should remain. If in one instance you abhor lies being told where an accusation is made, you should probably endeavor not do so yourself in another instance.


As I touched on earlier, Manchester United fans who have assumed Suarez’s guilt are also worthy of scorn. Just as a lot of Liverpool fans would have reacted differently if Glen Johnson had accused Nemanja Vidic of racist remarks, so too would a lot United fans. Perhaps even incidents involving Johnson and “playing the race card” would have been fabricated.


“Innocent until proven guilty” should not be a changeable stance. If that’s your belief, it’s your belief. It should not be changed because of which football team you prefer. Of course, just as important as “innocent until proven guilty” is that the lack of a guilty verdict does not necessarily mean innocence. In the 1998 adaption of the old play “12 Angry Men”, a juror slowly and painstakingly convinces his fellow jurors not to convict a seemingly guilty man. In the aftermath of the case, he is asked who he believed committed the murder. He replies, to the amazement of the queror, that he thinks it was probably the man he just convinced everyone to acquit.


If, which seems likely, there is found to be not enough evidence, or none, to prove Suarez made racist remarks, inevitably people will assume that Evra was lying. But surely if your initial requirement to the claims that Suarez was racist was “prove it”, the same logic should be applied to the claims that Evra was lying? A lack of proof does not mean an incident has not happened, it simply means it cannot be proven to have happened. As dangerous as it is to assume Suarez is guilty, it is equally as dangerous to conclude Evra is lying if it cannot be proven. It is for this reason that Liverpool as a club have been irresponsible in calling for a ban for Evra if the allegations can’t be proven.

The instant reaction of “he’s lying” to an accusation of racism is not only foolish, but dangerous. Chris Kamara has stated that he was frequently racially abused on the football pitch, but would not report it, as it would be impossible to prove and therefore he would not be believed. The 1999 Macpherson Report in Britain concluded that “There is a fear that when people do report incidents [of racism] they won’t be believed or it won’t be taken seriously”. It is therefore safe to assume that the reaction of people to a claim of racist abuse is quite important, and not merely footballing banter. We are talking about something that can have a severe knock-on effect for other people.


Football is a wonderful thing, but can also be a dangerous thing. When we as football fans are switching our moral views, assuming guilt or fabricating incidents based on the shirt a man is wearing, we have gone too far. We cannot and must not lose perspective because of it. As ridiculous as it is for a man who didn’t have another care in the world on Saturday at 12.45, it is only a game.
 
Evra's a ****.
I think there's about a 99% chance Suarez is telling the truth.
I hope Evra gets another 4 match ban.
I'm biased.

For what it's worth im not saying Suarez did say it, in fact i hopes its crossed wires, something misheard by Evra. but let's not be so partisian over it

Yeah right...... "..He said it at least 10 times. We can read it on his lips."
 
Hopefully, Evra is telling the truth. Suarez is a **** and he deserves to be banned.
 
Hopefully, Evra is telling the truth. Suarez is a **** and he deserves to be banned.

For what? If this is proven to be bullshit, then there's no reason for which he deserves to be banned.
 
If only you could ban a player for being a ****, Suarez would never play.

Along with quite a few players who people think are twats. If players were banned for being twats, Saturdays and Sundays would be very quiet indeed.
 
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