The Liverpool Thread

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PatrickLFC said:
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Talk about impatient. Everything that's wrong with the media and a disturbingly high proportion of fans
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SO many people are getting SO hung up on the lack of clean sheets it's unreal. The last home game when we absolutely destroyed Hull for 5 going on 14, and there's still the 'but we never kept a clean sheet ..... ' line. 5 F-ing goals! FFS LIVE a little and actually ENJOY it instead of narking all the time! People need to have a word with themselves and remember just why they even go the match and love this game. (Which the manager does his level best to remind everyone of most every day. Sadly you're NEVER going to satisfy some.).

I actually don't think this side would be consistently keeping clean sheets even if you hand picked (perceived) better players back there by the very nature of how he wants to play football and the risks he takes. And I'm MORE than fine with that. I'd be MORE than fine with that if we didn't keep a clean sheet all year (we will of course. Utd is a good bet to start being as he'll of been working the **** off Karius, Clyne, Matip, Lovren and Milner as a group in training this break to try hasten the understanding) so long as we continue to try score more than the opposition and entertain like this in so doing. (Cue zz and damola having heart attacks at the very thought.). He's a modern day manager in a modern day game and I think he's decided the risks for goals at one end are worth the times you'll be exposed at the other. Ferguson had the simple philosophy of 'this leagues **** defensively. And if you don't attack, you don't score goals. But if you do, you'll invariably score more and win more games than you lose.' And there'd be times it broke down, or they had an off game, and they'd get battered. Just like there invariably will with us. (Watch the idiots on social media lose their heads when that happens.). But the majority of the time they won and it lead to a slew of titles. Just like it hopefully will with us.

And let's not forget, Swansea was the first time we've had our first choice 'keeper and back 4 together on the pitch this season. In only that goalkeepers third game in English football. That is going to take time to grow and get the understanding. And we've not been embarrassed at the back by anyone after the Arsenal game which was individual mistakes. Yeah, Burnely scored 2 but they aren't scoring goals like that again in a hurry. We've not conceded past one in a game since. Even the much maligned set piece stat has been improving this year. Still room for improvement. But we're defending them far better than at any point last year in the main. Point being it's something that can be corrected further with understanding and hard graft.

Karius will be fine. The back 4 will be fine. The team will be fine. And that's the key word he preaches every time he speaks. The team. We attack as team. We defend as a team. It's not all on the back 4 and 'keeper. If the opposition has broken past the high press then someone isn't doing their job the other end of the park. He's slowly changing the whole traditional view you've had on everything.

People get SO caught up in wanting perfection (which you're NEVER going to achieve), that they forget the opposition is trying just as hard to score goals against you. And they will. Whatever team you are. That's just football. You win games. You lose games. But man I'd MUCH rather be a side that took calculated gambles in getting bodies forward to attack and score goals like a Klopp side than be bored rigid watching the type of compact, defensive, sit and nick a goal football that is the traditional MO of a Benitez or a Mourinho.

And LONG may it continue being as entertaining as that.

Up the 10-9 Reds!
 
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Brilliant 15 minute watch on year one:

[video=youtube;jx7ga_L9CiA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=448&v=jx7ga_L9CiA[/video]
 
PatrickLFC said:
*snip*
Talk about impatient. Everything that's wrong with the media and a disturbingly high proportion of fans
Click to expand...

And that with every club. No matter what level. When I first made the Tercera Activated database to play Burgos CF, I stumbled upon a link to Burgos' forums. I thought I'd go and advertise my database for any interested and had a look around... It looked like a Real Madrid forum, with people blaming the president, albeit for not spending loads in new players (the team had been in the verge of disappearing due to financial trouble, so logically his focus was to build some reserves) and speaking.... wait for it... about the great history of the club that it should regain. Pffffff. The great history of Real Burgos was a two brief stints in top division, one during the fifties and another between 1990 and 1992, in which they once qualified for what is now the Europa League. then disappear due to financial issues. Reading one would think Real Burgos had won some Champions Leagues in their time. LOL
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
SO many people are getting SO hung up on the lack of clean sheets it's unreal. The last home game when we absolutely destroyed Hull for 5 going on 14, and there's still the 'but we never kept a clean sheet ..... ' line. 5 F-ing goals! FFS LIVE a little and actually ENJOY it instead of narking all the time! People need to have a word with themselves and remember just why they even go the match and love this game. (Which the manager does his level best to remind everyone of most every day. Sadly you're NEVER going to satisfy some.).

I actually don't think this side would be consistently keeping clean sheets even if you hand picked (perceived) better players back there by the very nature of how he wants to play football and the risks he takes. And I'm MORE than fine with that. I'd be MORE than fine with that if we din't keep a clean sheet all year (we will of course. Utd is a good bet to start being as he'll of been working the **** off Karius, Clyne, Matip, Lovren and Milner as a group in training this break to try hasten the understanding) so long as we continue to try score more than the opposition and entertain like this in so doing. (Cue zz and damola having heart attacks at the very thought.). He's a modern day manager in a modern day game and I think he's decided the risks for goals at one end are worth the times you'll be exposed at the other. Ferguson had the simple philosophy of 'this leagues **** defensively. And if you don't attack, you don't score goals. But if you do, you'll invariably score more and win more games than you lose.' And there'd be times it broke down, or they had an off game, and they'd get battered. Just like there invariably will with us. (Watch the idiots on social media lose their heads when that happens.). But the majority of the time they won and it lead to a slew of titles. Just like it hopefully will with us.

And let's not forget, Swansea was the first time we've had our first choice 'keeper and back 4 together on the pitch this season. In only that goalkeepers third game in English football. That is going to take time to grow and get the understanding. And we've not been embarrassed at the back by anyone after the Arsenal game which was individual mistakes. Yeah, Burnely scored 2 but they aren't scoring goals like that again in a hurry. We've not conceded past one in a game since. Even the much maligned set piece stat has been improving this year. Still room for improvement. But we're defending them far better than at any point last year in the main. Point being it's something that can be corrected further with understanding and hard graft.

Karius will be fine. The back 4 will be fine. The team will be fine. And that's the key word he preaches every time he speaks. The team. We attack as team. We defend as a team. It's not all on the back 4 and 'keeper. If the opposition has broken past the high press then someone isn't doing their job the other end of the park. He's slowly changing the whole traditional view you've had on everything.

People get SO caught up in wanting perfection (which you're NEVER going to achieve), that they forget the opposition is trying just as hard to score goals against you. And they will. Whatever team you are. That's just football. You win games. You lose games. But man I'd MUCH rather be a side that took calculated gambles in getting bodies forward to attack and score goals like a Klopp side than be bored rigid watching the type of compact, defensive, sit and nick a goal football that is the traditional MO of a Benitez or a Mourinho.

And LONG may it continue being as entertaining as that.

Up the 10-9 Reds!
Click to expand...
Good god! This is why I don't like hype trains. The point was that there are times where you have to grind out a result and keep a clean sheet. I have to say that the Burnley result was unlucky but the defence has been nothing spectacular. There surely has to be a balance? You've referenced Sir Alex Ferguson's side who were incredibly resilient and capable of nicking and protecting a result if need be. Just look at Spurs who seem to have balanced everything out nicely and are 2nd despite losing key players. They've conceded 3 league goals albeit lucky. It's getting increasingly difficult to see Liverpool not making the top 4 by there's a reason I don't jump on hype trains.
 
Death Ball said:
And that with every club. No matter what level. When I first made the Tercera Activated database to play Burgos CF, I stumbled upon a link to Burgos' forums. I thought I'd go and advertise my database for any interested and had a look around... It looked like a Real Madrid forum, with people blaming the president, albeit for not spending loads in new players (the team had been in the verge of disappearing due to financial trouble, so logically his focus was to build some reserves) and speaking.... wait for it... about the great history of the club that it should regain. Pffffff. The great history of Real Burgos was a two brief stints in top division, one during the fifties and another between 1990 and 1992, in which they once qualified for what is now the Europa League. then disappear due to financial issues. Reading one would think Real Burgos had won some Champions Leagues in their time. LOL
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It's ridiculous how fickle they are.
 
damola3 said:
Good god! This is why I don't like hype trains. The point was that there are times where you have to grind out a result and keep a clean sheet. I have to say that the Burnley result was unlucky but the defence has been nothing spectacular. There surely has to be a balance? You've referenced Sir Alex Ferguson's side who were incredibly resilient and capable of nicking and protecting a result if need be. Just look at Spurs who seem to have balanced everything out nicely and are 2nd despite losing key players. They've conceded 3 league goals albeit lucky. It's getting increasingly difficult to see Liverpool not making the top 4 by there's a reason I don't jump on hype trains.
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And you are why I hate statistics. You see the game in clear black and white and what should be this and what should be that. Most of the stuff you've tried to show about Klopp's Liverpool don't stack up to what we see. Which then leads you to analyse a completely different game to what he plays and talk about the lack of traditional FB's or DM's which will ultimately cost him when he doesn't utilise specialists in that way.

You've a dogmatic way of analysing and pigeonholing to a statistical standard. Which it rarely plays out like on a football field with human error and emotion involved.

Soz abar us like if the perceived 'hype' is not to your liking. But he's building something VERY special at ours and we'll shout it from the rooftops the longer this exhilarating ride goes.

*Edit* A football fan criticising other football fans for 'hype', or more so being excited about their team and the exhilarating attacking football they're producing.

Man alive people need to have a SERIOUS look at themselves and what being a football FAN is ALL about.
 
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Isn't Liverpool the perfect example of why stats are never the full picture? FSG have been trying to Moneyball everything, which looks at stats and perceived under/over valuations based on stats, since they arrived. It can work in baseball, but I think we've proven that it doesn't work in football. Stats are important, but they're far from the be all and end all
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
And you are why I hate statistics. You see the game in clear black and white and what should be this and what should be that. Most of the stuff you've tried to show about Klopp's Liverpool don't stack up to what we see. Which then leads you to analyse a completely different game to what he plays and talk about the lack of traditional FB's or DM's which will ultimately cost him when he doesn't utilise specialists in that way.

You've a dogmatic way of analysing and pigeonholing to a statistical standard. Which it rarely plays out like on a football field with human error and emotion involved.

Soz abar us like if the perceived 'hype' is not to your liking. But he's building something VERY special at ours and we'll shout it from the rooftops the longer this exhilarating ride goes.

*Edit* A football fan criticising other football fans for 'hype', or more so being excited about their team and the exhilarating attacking football they're producing.

Man alive people need to have a SERIOUS look at themselves and what being a football FAN is ALL about.
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I don't see how anything I've said is dogmatic or how anything I've said about Liverpool very wrong. All I've said is that Liverpool would play high intensity gung-ho attacking football with high shot volumes without being great defensively. So far, I've been right. You claim stat statistics never stack up to what's shown on the pitch.

What about Mane? He went on a 5 month dry spell last season. The numbers showed that he was misfiring last season. He's joined Liverpool with a flurry of goals and evened out his goal expectation. My point being is that you have to separate what happens in reality to the noise. The reality is that you won't score 5 goals every game for the entire season.

Optimism is good and it's more than reasonable to be optimistic as a Liverpool fan thus far. I just don't like the over-the-top reactions based upon a few games. The top team in Europe I can think of that doesn't play with a proper holding midfielder is Real Madrid. Looking at Liverpool's defensive record this season, I'm quite right to have doubts. The same with Milner at left back who's only played a couple of games. Remember the Kolarov hype?
 
PatrickLFC said:
Isn't Liverpool the perfect example of why stats are never the full picture? FSG have been trying to Moneyball everything, which looks at stats and perceived under/over valuations based on stats, since they arrived. It can work in baseball, but I think we've proven that it doesn't work in football. Stats are important, but they're far from the be all and end all
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When FSG joined, it was just in its infancy and analytics hadn't really taken hold. It's not just about collecting stats but what you can derive from them. All of the signings this summer are moneyball signings. Mane, Matip, Karius, Wijnaldum (ish)and Klavan all profile well statistically. Arsenal have been doing it for years and acquired a sports analytics company. They have a statistical model to measure player valuations.
 
All of the signings this summer were KLOPP signings.

It has f-all to do with any perceived money ball strategy outside of coincidence with Bostons ideal.

If you can't find a logical reason to compartmentalise everything it's like you can't accept anything.
 
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Scouseinthehouse said:
All of the signings this summer were KLOPP signings.

It has f-all to do with any perceived money ball strategy outside of coincidence with Bostons ideal.

If you can't find a logical reason to compartmentalise everything it's like you can't accept anythi.ng.
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They were all Klopp signings with analytics taken into consideration. You are one of the few premier league clubs with a Director of Research and ahead of most of the footballing world in terms of analytics. Liverpool have spent a lot on research into analytics and the signings are no coincidence. Most clubs now use a mixture of stats and scouts when recruiting a player.
 
1 more week of International tedium then we can finally get back to winning a league title.

This is a LONG 16 days.
 
Wythenshawe's Anthony Taylor to referee the United game.

About right they'd put an actual Mancunian in charge. Nottin' like opening yourself up to controversy.

On the plus side the referee actually being from Manchester makes up for Utd not being so there is that .....
 
^ I swear, you and Jose have a personality clash, it's why you hate him so much :D Excuses already, hint of nerves? ;)
 
RhQQ said:
^ I swear, you and Jose have a personality clash, it's why you hate him so much :D Excuses already, hint of nerves? ;)
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I seriously dislike him for the same reasons most everyone in the Utd thread did before he got the gig and the whole rhetoric changed. The fella's an A1 *****.

Nervous? Cautious. It's Utd. Anything can happen. But nervous? Nah. Seen absolutely nottin' from Utd to suggest you can live with how L'pool are currently playing. Love that you've just had the weekend off whilst we've been going two a days. Your lads are going to be beyond goosed at the end of next Monday night. They'll certainly know they've been in a game.

Last time we lost at Anfield was ironically Utd back in January 16 games ago. Which was another game we completely dominated but De Gea turned Superman again. Which would be a concern if he hadn't turned Superman in March on the biggest stage of all in Europe. But this time we'd learnt (as has so often happened when Klopp's played a team twice) and scored two despite his efforts.

Quietly optimistic you'll get licked 3 or 4. These Reds are currently mustard!
 
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