The Liverpool Thread

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I've actually sat down and run the numbers. 44% win percentage in Premier League in this calendar year.

By comparison

Rafa 55
Rodgers 50
Hodgson 41

I rest my case.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
Really? Yer seriously believe that huh? Let's reassess.

He took someone else's team, a team that most everyone had finishing midtable, to two major Cup finals his first part-season having arrived in October. Having had no pre-season and signing nobody.

Fair enough. No one denies that he had a great first season even if he continued his absolutely absymal record in cup finals.

He then improves the league record in his first full season to return the club to the CL. A place they've been only once in the previous seven seasons since Rafa's tenure.

You barely made it into the CL by the skin of your teeth. Add that to the fact that you never had the constraints of playing European football either unlike Arsenal who missed out to you in the final few games of the season.

In so doing increasing the wins on the previous season by 6.

Hardly saying much considering how **** you were in the league the previous season.

Recording the best goals against record for 5 seasons.

What about the number of goals conceded? Unfortunately for Klopp, both sides of the equation matter in football.

And totalling L'pool's joint third highest points total the PL era.

Again not saying much considering your record points total in the PL era was not even enough to win you the title in the season it happened.

All whilst battling a constant injury list of key players that cost a serious title assault that was happening before they hit.

Injuries are part and parcel of the game. They happen at every club. You should have been able to cope considering you had no European football. This so-called 'serious title assault' lasted about three months and fizzled out completely by January.

You can't ask for any more than progress season-on-season and he's MORE than done that his first two years. The football club, on most every level, is the healthiest it's been at most anytime the PL era. A slow start to this season, which let us not forget is only on October, and unfortunately picking some stubborn *** clubs to do business with the summer, isn't changing that.

No one denies there has been progress, just not as much as you perhaps would like to think so.

And along the way, he's given us some outstanding memories with some ridiculously good football.

And ZERO trophies

The difference between Klopp and the other 5 top 6 managers (outside Wenger who's a law unto himself), is he's under zero pressure to 'win now' from the owners or majority of fans. He's here for the next 5 years at least and he's building season-on-season with an eye one or two years down the line. (Keita a recent glaring example for next year.). Whilst trying to stay competitive as we go.

Look at how making Wenger a law 'unto himself' has worked out for Arsenal.

Nobody said this was going to be an easy road back to where we so crave to be after nigh on 3 decades of mismanagement, on and off the pitch. But as evidenced by the progression of the football club in each of his first two years, and it being in a **** of lot healthier situation than when he took over, the project we're all in on with him is working to that ultimate goa

Yep the old 'Klopp is building something' line. Its a pity the vast majority of people really can't ses what he is building.

To move away from him now would be everyone's detriment. So yeah, contrary to you seemingly mistaking me for a modern day, Sky generation. 'what have you done for me lately?' breed of fan, some of us do have the patience to realise there's going to bumps along the road when you're completely rebuilding a football club. The knee-jerkers out in force after every game L'pool fail to win, like today's bad day at Tottenham, are not representative of most match going Reds/ Scousers in general.

He's the right and only man for us my Polish friend and we're progressing nicely under him.
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I am not saying Klopp should be sacked but I think adding some balance to Scouse's post would be informative for everyone. Tyton is bang on when he says that its time people start asking questions about what exactly Klopp is doing.
 
Tyton said:
I've actually sat down and run the numbers. 44% win percentage in Premier League in this calendar year.

By comparison

Rafa 55
Rodgers 50
Hodgson 41

I rest my case.
Click to expand...

If you're under not really pressure to win the title, you cannot by any means refer to your side as title contenders
 
As for progressing, defence has got worse as the attack has got better... It's entirely valid for people to say: hang on, just where are we progressing to? Because progressing nicely doesn't actually mean anything
 
Its always the case of ... Oh but Klopp has us playing fantastic football and has given us great memories. Its almost like this is exclusive to Liverpool. Fans of most major clubs can also say the same for their managers and point to trophies being won as well.
 
Mike. said:
As for progressing, defence has got worse as the attack has got better... It's entirely valid for people to say: hang on, just where are we progressing to? Because progressing nicely doesn't actually mean anything
Click to expand...

The defending hasn't gotten worse.

It's struggling right now and still needs attention. But it's not regressed. It's been poor since Benitez left and they improved the goals conceded tally last year to the best it's been in 5 years. Going into the City game where the current dip started the club was on it's best 38 game rolling defensive record for 4 years with 7 clean sheets the previous 10 games I think it was. Set pieces aside, the defensive structure hasn't actually been bad under him. The fella' spent a lot of his career at centre-half so he knows that end of the pitch contrary to popular opinion. It's individual mistakes within that are costly. They give up few chances in the main. But when they do, it's normally a big, costly one with no de Gea/ Lorris/ Courtois etc to bail them out.

The main gripe at the manager within that would be letting the Mignolet situation go on FAR too long. They've tried to go out and address the CH position with the best available, But the continued neglect of the most important position on the pitch outside of a goalscorer is baffling. Put Mignolet behind any of the other top 5's back lines and you'd see a marked difference. That lack of confidence and trust in the man behind you can't be understated and we don't have that. Yesterday, 3 of those goals, as poor as the defending leading up to them were, should have been prevented by him. He should have made the decision to either roll with Karius or Ward and let them develop. Or if they don't feel they're upto it, go out and replace him with reliable experience.

As for 'progressing nicely' not meaning anything ..... Man, it's a good job Ferguson wasn't starting out at Utd in this impatient age huh?
 
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Bujakaa said:
Can you truly say their attack has been better?
Yeah they smash some side 7-0 and have scored lot in some games more, but what about recent games in PL where shots on target is well beyond what should be looking at goals they get.
They have amazing wingers and with good playmaker in Cou, but still dont see why he has not also addressed their striker problem.
Need more stability up front.
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Statistically, they have become better at breaking deadlocked games. On the other hand, they are giving up more and more high quality chances to the opposition
 
Comparing Ferguson is a myth here, as United were out and out struggling initially under him.
 
Of course it is.

The complete lack of patience in today's World, nevermind game, compared to someone getting the time to go through the initial struggles who was afforded that is of no relation at all.
 
Questioning the progress =/= lack of patience. There legitimate questions to be asked. You can't just dismiss them. If you don't want to talk about it fine, but there's a discussion point for the rest of us
 
Seriously? That's your lame get out to that? I'm not discussing anything? Even though I am.

Priceless.
 
Tyton said:
Come on mate, at this point if he wasn't named Klopp you'd be calling for his head, patience be damned. He's hanging on to the job purely due to his past reputation and likeable personality. The truth is he's had good first 12 months and it's been downhill ever since
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I wouldn't say down hill, more plateauing a bit. The defensive organisation should have been dealt with. The less said about the van Dijk chase the better
 
Mike. said:
Questioning the progress =/= lack of patience. There legitimate questions to be asked. You can't just dismiss them. If you don't want to talk about it fine, but there's a discussion point for the rest of us
Click to expand...

Sweet baby Jesus, my OCD :@
 
There's no denying that defensive situation is quite unusual. Every time I've seen a renowned manager take over a new team, defensive organization is the first aspect where they make immediate impact. It's a cliche at this point, top manager arrives, team start looking tighter in the back. Even someone like Guardiola who's made his reputation on attacking football, still went out and replaced entire backline+goalkeeper within two summers after arriving.

Klopp for some reason seems not interested in addressing these concerns.
 
Tyton said:
There's no denying that defensive situation is quite unusual. Every time I've seen a renowned manager take over a new team, defensive organization is the first aspect where they make immediate impact. It's a cliche at this point, top manager arrives, team start looking tighter in the back. Even someone like Guardiola who's made his reputation on attacking football, still went out and replaced entire backline+goalkeeper within two summers after arriving.

Klopp for some reason seems not interested in addressing these concerns.
Click to expand...

If they are truly intent on being elite, they have to fix it
 
Well that's one way to get over the Tottenham debacle.

Watching the ressi's thoroughly lick Utd in what should have been a far bigger scoreline.
 
Mike. said:
If they are truly intent on being elite, they have to fix it
Click to expand...

Yeah and they don't even seem to be trying. It's not just Mignolet thing, his insistence on giving chances to Moreno also made very little sense, although it seems like he's finally seen the light. Then there's the Sakho thing, he was their best defender and it was clear he left because relationship with Klopp broke down. And yeah Sakho is a moron, but everything points that it was just a dumbass mistake and I can't blame him that for wanting, Pool didn't back him at all up during that whole ordeal.
 
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