The Liverpool Thread

Scouseinthehouse said:
It’s utterly mad because COVID has completely changed what many clubs can do financially.

L’pool are estimated to be losing over a million every home game right now for example and are taking a far more pragmatic approach to keeping everything balanced in the market. And we’ll find the same when clubs buy from ourselves..For example players that have no future here they’ve made clear they won’t loan again they’ll have to adjust what they would have sold them for. Harry Wilson say ..... there was a rumoured £23 million obligation to buy in last years Bournemouth loan that depended on Bournemouth staying up. Which in the mad market as was, was probably cheaper than someone would have paid. I’d imagine we could have bagged £25/30 million in a ‘normal’ window. Now, Leeds or who ever will probably get him fit £15/20 million.

It’s a dangerous gamble by these clubs to hope someone will either panic into paying stupid money or they can ride out the pandemic a window or two until.finances start getting back to normality.

Like I said above, fair play to Norwich if they can get upwards of £20 million for Lewis. But it seems a BIG gamble to me when they could well be sat with 3 first-team calibre LB’s in the Championship.

All credit to Woodward and the Utd owners if they tell Villa where to go on that ridiculous WAY OTT valuation for Grealish too. And (you probably won’t agree as we all want better players improving our sides) if they can’t agree with BVB’s excessive demands for Sancho, before you even get to the rumoured massive salary package on top, I’d praise them again there too in this current, very unstable financial climate for being financially sensible and not being blackmailed into such a fee.

It’d be frustrating for you no doubt but even a traditionally financially strong club like Utd has to cut there cloth accordingly in totally unprecedented times like these. With the complete uncertainty as to how long they’ll last and just how much worse the immediate future may well become.
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Nooo but Jim on twitter said just pay the money as United are rich and Wooward is incompetent (he is but still). Football fans need to realise this aint monopoly money and multi million pound deals not only take time but involve so many other facet we as fans are not prive too. I mean we dont even know how the incoming 2nd wave will effect things and with a vaccine not available for a year at the very least who knows the future of football, so I dont blame utd trying to get the best deal in this current situation or walking away altogether.
 
dilakh2 said:
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I was thinking about the Wijnaldum contract situation the longer it drags on .....

Yanno', all things considered, I'd be perfectly sound if Gini gave us one more season and the club reciprocated with a 'goodwill' gesture of letting him move for free and sort his own mega last contract out somewhere. Or maybe return home to Eindhoven as he's always said he wants to, to end his career.

It'd be the right thing from the club by the player we'd be getting another season of total dedication and quality out of. As he's always given us.

What would you realistically get in this COVID scared market? £25/30 million at a push now? Half that if you're lucky the winter window? He'd be WAY more valuable to keep here for a year than try off-load him.

This is nothing like the Emre Can debacle. We tried for a few years before his deal ended to box Can off. He just thought that grass was greener and he had a quicker chance of silverware in Turin. Gini's openly real happy here. But his age and what he views his financial worth as opposed to his age and what we view his financial worth patently differ.

It would all make Thiago late in the window even more of a prudent coup if this is to be Wijnaldums last year.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
I was thinking about the Wijnaldum contract situation the longer it drags on .....

Yanno', all things considered, I'd be perfectly sound if Gini gave us one more season and the club reciprocated with a 'goodwill' gesture of letting him move for free and sort his own mega last contract out somewhere. Or maybe return home to Eindhoven as he's always said he wants to, to end his career.

It'd be the right thing from the club by the player we'd be getting another season of total dedication and quality out of. As he's always given us.

What would you realistically get in this COVID scared market? £25/30 million at a push now? Half that if you're lucky the winter window? He'd be WAY more valuable to keep here for a year than try off-load him.

This is nothing like the Emre Can debacle. We tried for a few years before his deal ended to box Can off. He just thought that grass was greener and he had a quicker chance of silverware in Turin. Gini's openly real happy here. But his age and what he views his financial worth as opposed to his age and what we view his financial worth patently differ.

It would all make Thiago late in the window even more of a prudent coup if this is to be Wijnaldums last year.
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No way. If he doesnt sign he gets sold period. It sets a bad precedent if we let players in their prime go for free especially when we are a self sustaining club. I'd understand if it was a Milner situation who wanted to go back to Leeds for one last swan song, but Wiji is in his prime and can play a high level for a couple more years. Think you're a bit misinformed on Emre Can he left because he wasn't first choice under Klopp and he was professional unlike Coutinho. Only way Thiago comes in is if Wiji is sold and doesnt sign a contract we cant afford to give up on a transfer fee for a player of wiji quality. He aint just a squad player he is a first choice quality midfielder who plays for arguably the best team in the world.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
Showing goodwill to a loyal player sets a bad precedent?

That's an interesting take.
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Loyalty works both ways. For whatever reason Wiji has not signed a contract that has been on the table for a year now. The club is self sustaining we have established that it makes no sense to miss out on a good transfer fee especially in today's current climate. If he signs then great we get an excellent who still has a couple of years at a high level. This aint a player coming to the end of his career, Gini is in his prime and playing at the highest level. It makes zero sense to let him leave on a free, you cant say we have to follow this self sustaining model and then let top players that could fetch a good transfer leave for free. Makes zero sense.

Edit: also what has Gini done that is loyal. He is a player albeit a key one that is fulfilling his contract. The club has every right to sell him if he doesn't sign and Gini has every right to not sign and leave next year. The question was it doesnt fit the ethos of the clubs current model.
 
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Surprised he’s not signed it by now tbh. Especially as he’s been a fairly key player with lots of mins. Maybe he has offers and wanting better terms of you guys.
 
Theatre of Dreams83 said:
Surprised he’s not signed it by now tbh. Especially as he’s been a fairly key player with lots of mins. Maybe he has offers and wanting better terms of you guys.
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I believe he is still on his original contract, so it must be for personal reasons. He is still too young and at the top of his game to go back home so I doubt its that. Still though its been on the table for a year and he hasn't signed. Can't lose out on a good money for a top player and then play the self sustaining card. Makes no sense.
 
dilakh2 said:
I believe he is still on his original contract, so it must be for personal reasons. He is still too young and at the top of his game to go back home so I doubt its that. Still though its been on the table for a year and he hasn't signed. Can't lose out on a good money for a top player and then play the self sustaining card. Makes no sense.
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So you are happy to diminish the level of your squad by selling a player rather than keep him just to get a few million, because he is in his 'prime' as a player makes no sense especially in the current climate. If he is sold he would have to be replaced and to be honest the club will be hard pressed to get hold of someone of similar quality of a younger age for the same price even in a deflated market. By keeping him and possibly risking him going on a free at the end of next season isn't really the end of the world, the lad will have shown loyalty by fulfilling his contract with the club and will be leaving as a 30 year old so will be approaching the end of his career (yes players last longer these days but it doesn't follow that the same performance level will be maintained).
 
woolly said:
So you are happy to diminish the level of your squad by selling a player rather than keep him just to get a few million, because he is in his 'prime' as a player makes no sense especially in the current climate. If he is sold he would have to be replaced and to be honest the club will be hard pressed to get hold of someone of similar quality of a younger age for the same price even in a deflated market. By keeping him and possibly risking him going on a free at the end of next season isn't really the end of the world, the lad will have shown loyalty by fulfilling his contract with the club and will be leaving as a 30 year old so will be approaching the end of his career (yes players last longer these days but it doesn't follow that the same performance level will be maintained).
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I hate this notion that if a player hits 30 he is automatically seen as declining this aint fm. I think you are forgetting the model employed by FSG to make this club self sustaining and the current climate we are in. Wiji isnt a player that is a worth a few million even at the end of his contract he would still fetch a good price. Unless you have been living under a rock his replacement will most likely be Thiago a similar player age profile, so no he wont be sold without a replacement coming in. The club like many others is losing millions a week and with the new world class training ground and wage bumps etc required I believe it cannot afford to let top first team players run out the contract. I'd much rather get Wiji replacement in now then a year down the line but you cant have the best of both worlds aka both Thiago and Wiji.

Edit: also wanted to add I'm not opposed to Wiji staying on and honouring his contract. He is a professional who has been superb for all his time here, but I'm thinking about it from the clubs point of view and protecting itself from losing out on a excellent replacement option due to this notion of loyalty. Especially when the club is within its rights to get a good transfer fee for a top player before they walk for free next year. Just as Wiji is within his rights to stay the club is within its rights to sell him this summer. That is all.
 
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dilakh2 said:
Loyalty works both ways. For whatever reason Wiji has not signed a contract that has been on the table for a year now. The club is self sustaining we have established that it makes no sense to miss out on a good transfer fee especially in today's current climate. If he signs then great we get an excellent who still has a couple of years at a high level. This aint a player coming to the end of his career, Gini is in his prime and playing at the highest level. It makes zero sense to let him leave on a free, you cant say we have to follow this self sustaining model and then let top players that could fetch a good transfer leave for free. Makes zero sense.

Edit: also what has Gini done that is loyal. He is a player albeit a key one that is fulfilling his contract. The club has every right to sell him if he doesn't sign and Gini has every right to not sign and leave next year. The question was it doesnt fit the ethos of the clubs current model.
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So much conjecture that appears to be based off your annoyance that player that's played a very important role for us may well be leaving over the next year.

If he won't extend now down to the club and himself being ways apart in how they both view his financial worth. as appears, at his age (although his reps are claiming they haven't been talking contrary to everything which I find hard to buy. I just think the prospect of Thiago has narked them off as they now have NO position of strength to demand silly money with him linked every day), what in the World makes you think he'd agree to be sold now and not see his contract out for better financial gain? We can't force him to move if he doesn't want to. And then you're presuming you'll get any sort of decent fee for him in this market that makes it more viable than what he'd give on the pitch next season to the club. We aren't the only club looking out for our own interests in the transfer market right now in this COVID mad World mate. Most EVERY club is having to. Thiago's a great example. Well arguably the best player in World football in his position, who wants to leave his current club (who are quite happy to let him go), on the market for a ridiculously low fee for a genuine world class superstar player. With minimal interest right now outside of reportedly ourselves and PSG. Why is he not being courted by every major club out there at such a snip do you think? Exactly. So regardless of how consistently good Ginji has been for us, it's a great leap of faith to think you're going to get a fee you'd deem worth his value in such uncertain financial times.

For me, if he stays this season, whether a Thiago or anyone else is bought in midfield or not, it makes perfect sense as to where we are on this right now on a multitude of fronts. It will probably be way more financially viable, as discussed, to have a player of his calibre you know is going to give everything regardless, as he's far from unhappy here, to a very high level as he's always done, available to us as we seriously go for PL and CL riches again. When you weigh that up against getting, for argument's sake, a reduced £15/20 million now (even £25/30 million would be well under his value in a normal market), then it seems a complete no-brainer to me to let him see it out. It also strengthens the feeling within the changies that the club really does give a **** about you when they'll look out for such a loyal, well-liked player to show him, when you can't agree on an extension, that they'll let him have the opportunity to sort out one last major contract in his career, if that's what this is indeed all about, whilst he gives them a 5th year of everything he has. Knowing he'll play a big part in the upcoming season. Seems a complete win/win out of the situation to me. You've wanted to keep him and offered him an extension. That couldn't be agreed. COVID has thrown a spanner into the whole football World and changed clubs views on spending immeasurably as their finances go down massively. So now you've got a reciprocal situation that suits both parties.

There's a lot to be gained by doing the right thing by such a well-liked member of the changing roommate. It underpins Jürgen's ethis they've all bought into.

I don't get how you think that sends out the wrong message at all or detracts from how the superb way the club is run?
 
Ive repeated this countless times but ill say it again the club cant preach a self sustaining model and then let a top asset let his contract run out. I agree with you yes the fee wont be as high due to current climate but you have me wrong im not annoyed at Gini leaving for a free he is well within his rights too as I have mentioned many a times. Im just pointing out that it would make sense to get a fee however low it maybe but were not talking Lovren low and use it towards getting a top player like Thiago in a year early. Get his replacement in now and its one less thing to worry about next year when his replacement will have more options as he is available on a free. Personally speaking there is nothing superb about letting a first choice player run out his contract no matter how you put it.
 
That away kit ...... ******* dreadful would be doing it a diservice.

But that's the trade-off with Nike isn't it? You get either the same generic kits at every club from the same template. Or absolute monstrosities like that. (Their casual clobber does like sound.). And they'll sell like hot-cakes to the kids regardless.

But for upwards of £100 million or more this brilliant deal will likely net per season the next 5, 'meh' to 'WTF?!!!!!' kits are just what they are.
 
dilakh2 said:
Ive repeated this countless times but ill say it again the club cant preach a self sustaining model and then let a top asset let his contract run out. I agree with you yes the fee wont be as high due to current climate but you have me wrong im not annoyed at Gini leaving for a free he is well within his rights too as I have mentioned many a times. Im just pointing out that it would make sense to get a fee however low it maybe but were not talking Lovren low and use it towards getting a top player like Thiago in a year early. Get his replacement in now and its one less thing to worry about next year when his replacement will have more options as he is available on a free. Personally speaking there is nothing superb about letting a first choice player run out his contract no matter how you put it.
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And I don't see how it affects being self-sustaining at all when you weigh everything up on one individual instance. But there you go. We see this completely differently.

I'll also wager if they want Thiago, when things pick up and players are moved out, we'll end up with both he and Wijnaldum here next season.

This isn't an 'either-or' thing as regards Wijnaldum. It's just a back-end of the window thing down to Munich's season still going. And a whole host of deadwood they're hoping to shift, albeit on reduced prices, to balance the window.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
That away kit ...... ******* dreadful would be doing it a diservice.

But that's the trade-off with Nike isn't it? You get either the same generic kits at every club from the same template. Or absolute monstrosities like that. (Their casual clobber does like sound.). And they'll sell like hot-cakes to the kids regardless.

But for upwards of £100 million or more this brilliant deal will likely net per season the next 5, 'meh' to 'WTF?!!!!!' kits are just what they are.
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I dont know about you mate but the whole Nike thing has left a sour taste in my mouth. From the obscene prices for their dreadful kits to the slave labour that makes the ****** kits. Then again we are all hypocrites typing this from our Iphones. All I know is they wont get a dime from me.
 
dilakh2 said:
I dont know about you mate but the whole Nike thing has left a sour taste in my mouth. From the obscene prices for their dreadful kits to the slave labour that makes the ****** kits. Then again we are all hypocrites typing this from our Iphones. All I know is they wont get a dime from me.
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Is 70 notes for a shirt obscene today? (I mean obscene in relation to other shirt prices?) Not bought one in decades so I wouldn't know?
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
Is 70 notes for a shirt obscene today? (I mean obscene in relation to other shirt prices?) Not bought one in decades so I wouldn't know?
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Its obscene but what they've done extra to milk the fans even more is come out with two versions of the kit. Essentially the real kit retail for north of 100 quid and the cheap replica is the one going for 70 quid. Its sickening.

www.standard.co.uk

Liverpool fans the only losers with new Nike kit set for record sales

If you are willing to go to court in order to get a sponsorship deal over the line, then it better be worth it.
www.standard.co.uk www.standard.co.uk

Better explanation.
 
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