The Liverpool Thread

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there's no point trying to teach these people when they can't see through their own bias.
these people when they can't see through their own bias.
can't see through their own bias.

Lol..

This has to be my favourite thing said in the last 50 posts or so. :P

But yeah, seriously, I don't see why anyone even cares any more. The ban is over, Liverpool fans love Suarez and Kenny, everyone else hates them, I don't think constantly repeating points to one another will change either opinions.
 
wasn't going to get into this. but to say people arent listening because of bias, is very simplistic and incredibly dismissive. Same to those who say liverpool fans arent listening because of bias

Also re: 7th yeah you are 4 points of chelsea, but you are in a tough fight against a chelsea side who arent at their best but still overall playing better than you, an inconsistent but dangerout Arsenal and a Newcastle sie playing out their skins. Considering that 4th is the target, i would argue Liverpool are in danger of missing that, and its not a great position to be in. Could be worse, if the two london clubs were not so inconsistent mind.

Not having a go, its not a terrible position, but its a tough one.

Of course it's a tough position, but if you take into account the cup runs, we are doing very well. Also, if we had turned even just two of those home draws into wins we'd be 4th and everyone would be saying how well were doing.. Although I doubt it 'cus everyone hates us, :'( it's so unfair! :'(

I wish we could just talk about Liverpool on the field, but it won't ever happen.. People are fascinated with us, I don't know why.

Lol..

This has to be my favourite thing said in the last 50 posts or so. :P

But yeah, seriously, I don't see why anyone even cares any more. The ban is over, Liverpool fans love Suarez and Kenny, everyone else hates them, I don't think constantly repeating points to one another will change either opinions.

I agree with the irony in my post. I just wanted somebody to flame me, yay you! But still, I stand by that point. EVERYONE IZ BIASD, live with it.





Also, it wasn't Liverpool fans that started this up again... Dalglish is defending his player, he has the right to do so, if people don't like it then tough, that's your problem.. Stop putting words in our mouths and telling us how we should act/ feel about the way LFC & Dalglish behave. The majority of us whole-heartedly approve of the way he handles things.
 
All I see in this thread is mancs and bitters repeating each others points and then agreeing with themselves. Just stop talking about the 'racist' allegations and everything that's been going on at liverpool in this thread and just let us talk about the present and future. This racist suarez saga is getting old.

If this was the other way round I'd be banned for 'trolling'.
 
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All I see in this thread is mancs and bitters repeating each others points and then agreeing with themselves. Just stop talking about the 'racist' allegations and everything that's been going on at liverpool in this thread and just let us talk about the present and future. This racist suarez saga is getting old.

If this was the other way round I'd be banned for 'trolling'.

At least Lee debates on the points raised. Everyone else is 'you support United, you're wrong.'.

Sigh.
 
Liverpool | All About Shooting | Opta Stats & Graphical Review

Liverpool | All About Shooting | Opta Stats & Graphical Review





Much has been made this season about our lack of goals and our poor conversion rate. In fact, we have been consistently in the bottom three all season when it comes to conversion rates, hovering in and around the 10% mark. This week however, we’ve reached a new low and are now bottom of that table with only an 8.5% conversion rate. When you consider our rivals for the Champion’s League places, Arsenal (15%), Chelsea (13%) and Newcastle (16% – they deserve respect and to be mentioned as competing for fourth spot) have almost double our conversion rate then what exactly is going wrong for us this season.

According to the statistics Liverpool are creating enough chances, in fact with 257 chances created from open play this season we’ve created more chances than Man United who’ve created 240 from open play. We are also creating more chances per game than in our previous seasons, creating 10.71 per game this season, compared to 8.87 per game last season and 9.68 per game in 09/10 season. Yet we didn’t have this chance conversion problem in other seasons. We’ve averaged a 13% chance conversion in the previous three seasons to this one so maybe it is the quality of those chances?

Well we have another metric to measure, the “clear cut chances” statistic. We must remember this is a clear cut chance, a chance that almost certainly should be put away. And this makes for some grim reading also. All though we are creating as much clear cut chances as our rivals, 56 this season compared to Arsenal (64), Chelsea (47), and Newcastle (31), we are not converting enough of these also. It may not sound a lot at first glance but when you consider Arsenal have scored 24 goals to our 16 goals from clear cut chances then that is a big difference when it comes to points.

So what conclusions have we come to so far? Well we’ve established we are creating enough chances, and we’ve established that the quality of a portion of those chances, (clear cut chances), are very high. But on both counts we are lacking in the amount of goals we score from those chances that we create. It’s crystal clear (even without the statistics) that we are having problems putting the ball in the back of the net this season.
So what other metric can we look at to help understand our problem? Let’s look at the quality of our shooting. First off, there are a number of things with regards to shooting that I am unable to quantify that may be important to analyse. Like the speed of the shot, what position the player is in when he shoots, does the player hit it with his good or bad foot, or how that shot is hit. i.e is it an in-swinger hit with the outside of the boot, an out-swinger hit with the in-step, or a good old fashioned toe-poke (wrongly frowned upon is some quarters!), my point here is: if you are on the left side of the goal and you shoot with the outside of your right boot, then the ball will swerve in towards the goalkeeper and then out towards the goalpost, in a C arc so to speak. Hence, easier for the goalkeeper to save, as opposed to curling it from outside in.


Conversion Rates For Defined Areas Of Goal

Having said that what can we measure? Well we can measure shot placement. Which part of the goal are we shooting at more? First off, let’s determine which shots at which part of the goal are we most likely to score from. The consensus is that if you shoot down the middle then obviously the goalkeeper has a much better chance of saving the shot. Bottom left or right leaves it much harder to save, and the ‘postage stamp’ top right or left is generally considered to be the hardest placement of a shot to save. But do the stats back this up? Take a look at the table above.

The red boxes represent the goal, and percentages are the amount of shots on target in any particular area that end up as goals. Also we can extrapolate all shots on target that are not goals are saved by the goalkeeper. So for example, take a look at the 2011/2012 box, out of all shots on target that are placed in the top right corner of the goal this season we scored from 12.50% of those. Given what I said above then we should score more from shots placed in the top left or right of the boxes as generally these are the hardest to save. As opposed to shots down the centre which are easier to save. Not including this season, if you look at the box with the averages in the 3 seasons previous, you will notice that the statistics generally bear that out. For example over those seasons on average 45.58% of all shots on target placed in the top left corner were converted to goals. Compare that to top centre, 20.81%, and low centre, 22.41%, were only converted to goals.

So now we’ve established, at least for us anyway, that in the 2008/2009, 2009/2010 and 2010/2011 seasons generally we scored more from our well placed shots in the corners than we did down the middle. But that’s what we expected anyway. However, when you look at this season’s box then there seems to be a slight anomaly. Every area we have converted less of our shots to goals than the average from the three previous seasons. This season we have only converted 12.50% of shots in the top right corner, compared to last season’s high of converting 41.18% of our shots in the top right to goals. So even with well placed shots we are not doing well. Why? The only answer I can give is one witnessed from watching games this season. Our shots are not powerful enough, and more often than not goalkeepers seem to be having man-of-the-match performances against us. If 12.50% of shots on target in the top right corner are converted to goals then the other 87.5% of those shots in that area were saved. So either we are hitting very weak shots or goalkeepers are performing far and above their duty against us. Maybe a bit of both?



Placement Of Shots In Defined Areas Of Goal

So what about the placement of all our shots on target? Given our poor shot conversion rate (in all areas) this season then you would expect that we are shooting down the centre more often than not, where they are easier to save.

And lo and behold 32.85% of all our shots this season are placed low to the centre of the goal. Right down the keeper’s gullet. Only 5.11% of our shots on target are placed in the top left and only 5.84% of our shots on target are placed to the top right of the goal. Compare that to the previous three season’s average of 9.08% top left and 8.77% top right then it’s clear we aren’t hitting those ‘Hollywood’ areas this season. Our shot placement to the bottom left (19.71%) and bottom right (28.46%) are up on the averages of past seasons however when compared to the conversion rate graph above we aren’t converting enough of these to goals in that bottom left and right area.

So how often do we shoot into dangerous/non-dangerous areas this season and how does that compare to last season. Take a look at the chart below.
Shots Per Minute Into Defined Areas Of Goal

Lets start with the bottom right. Well there is higher chance of a goal if we shoot into the bottom right. As we confirmed above. We have a shot on target (which results in a save or a goal) every 58.2 minutes in this area. Outperforming the three previous seasons. Next we have a shot on target to the bottom left every 84 minutes. Only in 2009/2010 did shoot here more often with a shot every 79.4 minutes to the bottom left. Low centre, which is the easiest shot for a goalkeeper to save, we have a shot on target every 50.4 minutes there. More often than any other year in this area. So it’s clear we are shooting far too much at the goalkeeper and far too often compared to other years. In both the ‘postage stamp’ areas of the goal our shots on target are too far apart. Every 283.5 and 324 minutes respectively. Almost twice as long getting a shot on target this year in those areas as in the 2008/2009 season. So an area where we really need to improve on if we are to improve our very poor chance conversion rate this season.

Headed Shots Conversion Rates

Lastly let’s take a look at headers and compare them to previous years. Take a look at the headed shot conversion chart. Again not surprisingly this season we have the worst statistic in this area. So far this season we are only converting 6.7% of our headers. Compare that to the high of 2008/2009 when we converted over double our headed shots into goals with 14% then you can see it’s another area where we need to improve on. If we’d maintained that 14% this year, then out of 75 headed shots we’d have scored 10.5 goals rather than just the five we have scored. Are goalkeepers saving more headed shots this season also?



Percentage Of Headed Shots Saved

This season goalkeepers are saving 30.67% of all our headed shots. Compare that to 2008/2009 when they only saved 19% and even in 2009/2010 only saved 24.1% of headed shots. So maybe another case of a combination of goalkeeper heroics, poor placement of headers, and weak headed shots. Another area which needs a big improvement.
So in summary:

  1. The quantity and quality of our chances are as good if not better than our rivals.
  2. Our conversion rates in all areas need improvement. Headers, shots, and shots into definded areas of the goal all need improvement.
  3. Obvious, but statistically we’ll improve our chances of scoring if we place our shots in the top/bottom corners rather than straight down the middle at the goalkeeper.
  4. 32.85% of our shots on target this year are low and centre, straight at the goalkeeper. More than the previous three seasons.
  5. Opposition goalkeepers have saved 87.5% of all shots on target in the top right corner this year. Goalkeepers are saving more shots and headers, even in the harder to save areas, this year than in the previous three seasons.
Thanks for reading and here’s to 3 points and win on Saturday. You can follow me here on twitter.
 
Great find Mike. Thank you. Want to analyse further though - one thing which stands out from first glance though is that it's dodging the qualitative question again when judging 'chances'. It's the big statistical issue with all this talk of chances and conversion of chances. 'Clear cut chances', oh what's in a name? ;)
 
Great find Mike. Thank you. Want to analyse further though - one thing which stands out from first glance though is that it's dodging the qualitative question again when judging 'chances'. It's the big statistical issue with all this talk of chances and conversion of chances. 'Clear cut chances', oh what's in a name? ;)

Yeah I would love to know how Opta defines its clear cut chances. The analysis is good but I agree you cant skip that point. Will see if i can find their definition. But Liverpool do need to show better decision making in their shot choice, becuase they are not doing too much wrong besides that
 
Yeah I would love to know how Opta defines its clear cut chances. The analysis is good but I agree you cant skip that point. Will see if i can find their definition. But Liverpool do need to show better decision making in their shot choice, becuase they are not doing too much wrong besides that

I know their definition of 'chance' is basically 'a shot on or very close to being on target' which is why I treat their chance/conversion statistics with the utter scorn they deserve. What's blindingly obvious is that if you miss as many penalties as we have this season, then you're not being efficient in front of goal from what should be goal scoring chances.

Agree with you about decision making. People talk about hitting the woodwork a lot, but if you look at the majority of them, they're actually 'chances' you'd be delighted to have go in but not ones you'd expect to be scored with regularity. My feeling is that we don't have the right tempo in attack yet. There's no 'zip' about things and the decision making when defences are reset has been exceptionally poor.

Think Neville Neville's son mentioned that we seemed over-anxious - bit keen to rush it - rather than to play a pass or two more to create a better opportunity. Johnson's pass to Bellamy against City was a good case in point - he could have shot, would likely have been saved, instead he played a two yard pass which wrongfooted the entire City defence and Bellamy slotted it away. It's that kind of nous we seem to be lacking on a regular basis. We're not playing the percentages in creating the tap-ins but instead are going for the curling shot from the edge of the area which is heading into the corner but ends up against the woodwork or clawed away by the keeper unless the shot is close to perfectly placed.

Kenny's not daft though so it'll be sorted out. Defence, touch wood and wrapping Agger up in cotton wool between games - wonder what his problem really is as Kenny is very, very coy about it, is looking good. Team building the old way I guess, from back to front.
 
I can understand the feeling of injustice surrounding the whole Evra thing. But I can't see how anyone can believe Suarez isn't a complete piece of work.

In the past 2 years aside from 'racially abusing' Evra, he has:

Bitten an opponents neck:

suarez.jpg


Pulled Rafaels hair:

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Kicked Michael Dawson totally off the ball and without provocation:

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Flipped the bird:

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Kicked Scott Parker:

I'm undecided on this, but based on his previous form, i reckon he knew exactly what he was doing.

suarezparker.jpg


Eye gouged Scott Parker:

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Not sure which Spurs player this is. I think it's Parker so it's unlikely to be a dive:

221757d1328572826-liverpool-thread-suarez0bjkw.gif


There's video on youtube of all of the above pics if you want to research things further for yourselves, pay particular attention to the aggression and pure cuntishness displayed when he bites an opponent while playing for Ajax, how his kick on Dawson didn't warrant further action I'll never know either.

Imo he's a total **** who has unfortunately been blessed with incredible footballing talent. If he wasn't such a fantastic player he would have been cast aside and forgotten about by football a long time ago, a la Ronnie Wallwork.
 
Liverpool fans don't go into the United thread posting pictures/videos of Nani being a ****. Jog on.
 
Liverpool fans don't go into the United thread posting pictures/videos of Nani being a ****. Jog on.

Nani has never bitten someone on the pitch.

Nani has never kicked a man on the floor for no reason.

Nani has never swore at a whole stand of fans.

Nani has never tried to propel someones abdomen out of their body.

Nani has never gouged someones eye.

So what? Nani's a **** for diving? Suarez is equally as bad.
 
Would just like to know why United fans are fascinated by one of our best players? Why don't use concentrate on your own team for once? Every single United fan seems fascinated with Liverpool for some bizarre reason.
 
Would just like to know why United fans are fascinated by one of our best players? Why don't use concentrate on your own team for once? Every single United fan seems fascinated with Liverpool for some bizarre reason.

Who says they dont concentrate on their team? That doesnt wash

This whole thing is zzzz
 
Who says they dont concentrate on their team? That doesnt wash

This whole thing is zzzz

United fans are the ones who keep bringing it up though? Which is my point, they're more concentrated on Luis Suarez and Liverpool than United.
 
I know their definition of 'chance' is basically 'a shot on or very close to being on target' which is why I treat their chance/conversion statistics with the utter scorn they deserve. What's blindingly obvious is that if you miss as many penalties as we have this season, then you're not being efficient in front of goal from what should be goal scoring chances.

Agree with you about decision making. People talk about hitting the woodwork a lot, but if you look at the majority of them, they're actually 'chances' you'd be delighted to have go in but not ones you'd expect to be scored with regularity. My feeling is that we don't have the right tempo in attack yet. There's no 'zip' about things and the decision making when defences are reset has been exceptionally poor.

Think Neville Neville's son mentioned that we seemed over-anxious - bit keen to rush it - rather than to play a pass or two more to create a better opportunity. Johnson's pass to Bellamy against City was a good case in point - he could have shot, would likely have been saved, instead he played a two yard pass which wrongfooted the entire City defence and Bellamy slotted it away. It's that kind of nous we seem to be lacking on a regular basis. We're not playing the percentages in creating the tap-ins but instead are going for the curling shot from the edge of the area which is heading into the corner but ends up against the woodwork or clawed away by the keeper unless the shot is close to perfectly placed.

Kenny's not daft though so it'll be sorted out. Defence, touch wood and wrapping Agger up in cotton wool between games - wonder what his problem really is as Kenny is very, very coy about it, is looking good. Team building the old way I guess, from back to front.

The build up at home does seem slow, then they get to the final third and panic a bit, whether that is down to the expectations of the Anfield mob, or just the team needing more composure I dont know. Sure Dalglish will eventually remedy it, but will it be in time to win a 4th place?
 
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