The Liverpool Thread

[Aannddyy]

Fernando Torres at his best > Luis Suarez - Discuss?

Think it's harsh to compare somebody who was at the club for four years with somebody who's been here less than 18 months.. But, still, Torres looks like a much better poacher, however, Suarez clearly can score a lot of goals and hopefully we will see 20+ goals next year.

If I could choose which player to have right now it would be Suarez, mainly because our squad really does lack creativity and he's won us matches pretty much single handedly.. Think Torres would really struggle in our first XI, right now.

Nah. Kenny's side isn't quite as poor as the results have been. Hodgson's team was hovering around the relegation zone out of merit and I can't remember too many key injuries interfering with things either - take Lucas out of that Hodgson team and he'd have been sacked even sooner!

Football being played has been much better this season. We haven't been efficient (copyright Rafa) in front of goal at all, and that's a huge issue - hopefully one addressed this summer. There's been some abysmal performances, that's true. There's also been some excellent ones. First season is always the roughest. If it goes on into next season, then Kenny'll have a lot more questions about where he's going. Give him time - there's glimmers of gold amongst the sea of ****.

Know the focus is on the CL. And the money makes the CL the be all and end all. But I don't want us to become Arsenal. Happy to qualify for the CL every year, sod silverware, milk the fans. Will never happen under Kenny. Roll on Saturday. Tough match, not optimistic, but it's what this club is about.

This. People mock us saying we're a "cup team", etc. But, at least we're actually competing for something. I think only aiming for fourth place is pathetic, so glad we don't have that mentality here.

Agree on everything else you've said, too. Although, I think who we sign/ sell this summer is very much the make or break moment.

 

[Quasit]

You are probably going to get Aquilani back next season. His form hasn't been as good as 1st part of season and Milan are probably going to sign Montolivo on free rather than pay 6m for Aquilani.

 

[philly]

This. People mock us saying we're a "cup team", etc. But, at least we're actually competing for something. I think only aiming for fourth place is pathetic, so glad we don't have that mentality here.

If you are implying fourth is all we aim for, that is just plain wrong. Obviously we would love a title/cup run and finish Top 4 but it doesn't always work out how you would like. This season in particular, getting Top 4 (or 3rd) is probably going to be over-celebrated for what it is based on the first two months and what happened in the transfer window.

Liverpool fans, or the majority, seem to be content with mid table in the EPL to go with a Carling Cup and a potential FA Cup. While many Arsenal fans are content to be booking another ticket to the Champions League, while it means another trophy-less season having that lure of CL football is vital to bring in players who could turn us into title contenders. See Podolski for an example for that.

It's annoying seeing a heap of Arsenal and Liverpool fans out there constantly turning things into a ******* contest between the two teams. If you are happy with how your team has done this season then do so, but stop saying how much you wouldn't want to be the other club because if both sets of fans are honest there are bits from the other both would love to have. We would love a trophy and Liverpool would love Champions League football.

 

[zzeezzy]

Champions League place > Carling/FA Cup.

 

[Lee]

Champions League place > Carling/FA Cup.

So biased. Just the Carling Cup alone is better than a CL place.

 

[Dunc]

To be fair, winning the FA cup gets you into the Community Shield, I mean, that's much better than the Champions league, and your straight into the final, because you are that. ****. good.

 

[Aannddyy]

If you are implying fourth is all we aim for, that is just plain wrong. Obviously we would love a title/cup run and finish Top 4 but it doesn't always work out how you would like. This season in particular, getting Top 4 (or 3rd) is probably going to be over-celebrated for what it is based on the first two months and what happened in the transfer window.

Liverpool fans, or the majority, seem to be content with mid table in the EPL to go with a Carling Cup and a potential FA Cup. While many Arsenal fans are content to be booking another ticket to the Champions League, while it means another trophy-less season having that lure of CL football is vital to bring in players who could turn us into title contenders. See Podolski for an example for that.

It's annoying seeing a heap of Arsenal and Liverpool fans out there constantly turning things into a ******* contest between the two teams. If you are happy with how your team has done this season then do so, but stop saying how much you wouldn't want to be the other club because if both sets of fans are honest there are bits from the other both would love to have. We would love a trophy and Liverpool would love Champions League football.

Huh? That's not what I meant at all..

I think settling for fourth every season is a terrible mentality to have, and it's one your manager has.

I never said that the FA cup or League cup was better than the Champions League, just that you shouldn't take silverware for granted.. At the end of the day, what will you remember in a few years, winning a cup or participating in the Champions League group stage? So yeah, stop taking what I said the wrong way.

 

[maxy67]

You are probably going to get Aquilani back next season. His form hasn't been as good as 1st part of season and Milan are probably going to sign Montolivo on free rather than pay 6m for Aquilani.

Milan have stopped playing him due to them not wanting to trigger a buy out clause (if he plays one more game, they have to buy)

 

[Quasit]

Milan have stopped playing him due to them not wanting to trigger a buy out clause (if he plays one more game, they have to buy)

Actually I think it's 2 starts or if he comes on as sub in all of the remaining games.

 

[Quasit]

I think settling for fourth every season is a terrible mentality to have, and it's one your manager has.

How do you know Wenger has that mentality? Was it Wenger that decided to sell both Cesc and Nasri last summer and thus destroyed our start of season which resulted in that we had no chance challenging for title yet again. No it was board. Wenger was prepared to let Nasri leave for free after this season. Wenger doesnt have as much control over club as people think.

Also I think Arsenal team and manager should be discussed in Arsenal thread not in Liverpool's.

 

[rephlex]

To be fair, it was an unusual cheap shot by Zebedee, who usually writes posts with a little less partisan flair, so I'm putting this down to pre-match nerves. It's a perception, he's entitled to it, and nothing wrong with healthy discussion.

It (Wenger's lack of perceived ambition) is indeed something for the other thread, but a lot comes down to it being necessary to build a stadium and transition to new sponsorship deals in order to be able to consistently buy players. I could go on about 14 consecutive Champions League qualifications, the poorest sponsorship deal in the top half of the table and stadium costs, but it'd fall on deaf ears. It may be seen as "dull" and "lacking ambition", but that is exactly what has been paying the bills for the club, paying off the stadium loan and getting to the renewal for major deals next season. Not everyone has the backer-gleaned millions of Chelsea and City, the international brand of United to generate revenue, or an American sports group who can wipe all the debts clean and sanction 70m for a first season spend.

(As an aside, the one comment I'd agree with is fan costs. It's one of the most expensive, if not the most expensive in the country to support).

 

[Alcaraz]

I cant disagree fully with Zebdee here, usually whenever a reporter questions Wenger on his teams lack of success Wenger always seems to point to the fact that the team has qualified for the CL for the past 10 years which does give people the perception that qualifying for CL is 'success' for Wenger

 

[Joel`]

I cant disagree fully with Zebdee here, usually whenever a reporter questions Wenger on his teams lack of success Wenger always seems to point to the fact that the team has qualified for the CL for the past 10 years which does give people the perception that qualifying for CL is 'success' for Wenger

It is success. Not many in the world have been in the CL as consistently as Arsenal have with Wenger. I would personally also regard a trophyless season with a top 4 position as a more successful season than a trophy and not getting in the CL.

 

[Alcaraz]

It is success. Not many in the world have been in the CL as consistently as Arsenal have with Wenger. I would personally also regard a trophyless season with a top 4 position as a more successful season than a trophy and not getting in the CL.

I agree with you although Arsenal seem to have been going backwards for the last few years instead of going forward. They are not sure candidates for Top 4 anymore and their trophy drought continues... Getting into the CL is good but Arsenal have been stagnating at that stage for the past few years and have not been able to go further

 

[Joel`]

I agree with you although Arsenal seem to have been going backwards for the last few years instead of going forward. They are not sure candidates for Top 4 anymore and their trophy drought continues... Getting into the CL is good but Arsenal have been stagnating at that stage for the past few years and have not been able to go further

How much further can they go when Wenger is having to turn over transfer surpluses season after season, pay off their stadium debt and have a much weaker sponsorship deal than many others around them. Arsenal actually have a long term plan, they'll be in an incredibly strong position to compete once they've paid off the debt on the stadium. Their foresight should be praised not criticised, but I guess it's just a reflection of modern footballing culture and shows why more and more clubs are getting into more difficulty.

To be in the CL every season with as little transfer expenditure they have is a remarkable achievement.

 

[LFCMarshall]

Ive got to admit, id rather have a top 4 finish..

Champions League is the pinnacle of competitions, provides the most revenue and provides the best competition

Yes id like to win trophies BUT after this season in the league id rather have finished 4th and actually shown some kind of challenge in the league, but its personal preference, and the only one that matters is dalglish, and his mentality is winning domestic cups

 

[Alcaraz]

How much further can they go when Wenger is having to turn over transfer surpluses season after season, pay off their stadium debt and have a much weaker sponsorship deal than many others around them. Arsenal actually have a long term plan, they'll be in an incredibly strong position to compete once they've paid off the debt on the stadium. Their foresight should be praised not criticised, but I guess it's just a reflection of modern footballing culture and shows why more and more clubs are getting into more difficulty.

To be in the CL every season with as little transfer expenditure they have is a remarkable achievement.

Not saying its Wenger's fault but obviously this hampers Arsenal's ability to attract or retain players in the short-term along with other things. Yes they will be in a strong position to compete once they pay off the debt on their stadium but clubs like Manchester City will continue to remain ahead of them particularly as Man City are happy to have artificial stability at the club and spend big year in and out

 

[zzeezzy]

So biased. Just the Carling Cup alone is better than a CL place.

How on earth is the Carling Cup better than a CL spot?? Or was it sarcastic.

 

[Dunc]

How on earth is the Carling Cup better than a CL spot?? Or was it sarcastic.

How's that sarcastic? The Carling cup in a major trophy, which every team wants to win, I would probably say I would rather Newcastle won the Carling cup, than winning the league.

 

[Mike.]

Not saying its Wenger's fault but obviously this hampers Arsenal's ability to attract or retain players in the short-term along with other things. Yes they will be in a strong position to compete once they pay off the debt on their stadium but clubs like Manchester City will continue to remain ahead of them particularly as Man City are happy to have artificial stability at the club and spend big year in and out

Short Term pain for much better benefits in the long term. If more clubs were this sensible, football would be a lot less of a mess.