The Manchester City Thread.

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zzeezzy said:
I'm pretty sure you'd take Rojo, as well, he's better than Moreno and Milner, even though that's saying something in itself.

You would definitely take Blind, I mean the guy is better than Sakho, Lovren and Klaven (however you spell). Also Smalling was best CB in league last year as well as Blind so that's pretty much the best defensive CB pairing in the league going off last season.

I'll give you RB even though I shouldn't in reality as our depth is superior there, Darmian and Timothy Fosu-Mensah who you would take, even if you insisted it was cover for Clyne.
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The definition of deluded.
 
Tezzz said:
The definition of deluded.
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Don't see what's so deluded tbh. Pool defence is pants. Lovren and Sakho can be good on there day. But both prone to huge errors and inconsistent. Clyne is solid nothing more and less said about Moreno the better. Klaven is okay watched him a few times last season. Matip is another one like Sakho and Loveren. I'm not saying Utds defence is world class but it's better than pools by a long way in quality. Smalling, Shaw, Bailly will easily amongst the best defenders in the league. And people seriously underate Blind as a defender and Darmian who was one of the best most consistent FBs in Europe before LVG destroyed him.
 
Matip was excellent in the Bundesliga. Lovren is good on his day, Sakho is definitely excellent on his day.

But it comes down to systems. Liverpool were a defensive shambles last season because of how they set up.

Again against Arsenal it was not all Moreno, defending as a unit was not good either. Whether they replace him or not, they are going to suffer if they defend as a side like that.

Incredibly early days, but same can't be said so far of United, City, Chelsea
 
Mike. said:
Matip was excellent in the Bundesliga. Lovren is good on his day, Sakho is definitely excellent on his day.

But it comes down to systems. Liverpool were a defensive shambles last season because of how they set up.

Again against Arsenal it was not all Moreno, defending as a unit was not good either. Whether they replace him or not, they are going to suffer if they defend as a side like that.

Incredibly early days, but same can't be said so far of United, City, Chelsea
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given this is a football manager website there is a certain amount of irony in the fact people forget this
 
Mike. said:
Matip was excellent in the Bundesliga. Lovren is good on his day, Sakho is definitely excellent on his day.

But it comes down to systems. Liverpool were a defensive shambles last season because of how they set up.

Again against Arsenal it was not all Moreno, defending as a unit was not good either. Whether they replace him or not, they are going to suffer if they defend as a side like that.

Incredibly early days, but same can't be said so far of United, City, Chelsea
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It was naturally shambolic early as they were trying to learn a completely new system and way of playing with next to no training ground time to implement it. But it steadily improved the longer the year went on.

Now he's had that intensity pre-season, along with far better players. First half at Arsenal, for whatever reason, we never got started as we intended all across the pitch. But the second half when we did the defending as a team was a whole host better. One outstanding piece of play and deflected finish and a great free kick delivery aside. You can see big strides forward over his time here how the whole team is defending better. When we attack in spells like the opening 20 minutes the second half, very few if anyone will be able to contain that. And the more they grow the other end, with the added missing personnel back, we'll be closing out those leads.

I haven't seen Utd thus far so will watch with interest Friday night. But of everyone else, there's only Chelsea right here, right now on how Conte is setting up, and not least with the added security of Kante within that, that are looking a real secure outfit back there.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
It was naturally shambolic early as they were trying to learn a completely new system and way of playing with next to no training ground time to implement it. But it steadily improved the longer the year went on.

Now he's had that intensity pre-season, along with far better players. First half at Arsenal, for whatever reason, we never got started as we intended all across the pitch. But the second half when we did the defending as a team was a whole host better. One outstanding piece of play and deflected finish and a great free kick delivery aside. You can see big strides forward over his time here how the whole team is defending better. When we attack in spells like the opening 20 minutes the second half, very few if anyone will be able to contain that. And the more they grow the other end, with the added missing personnel back, we'll be closing out those leads.

I haven't seen Utd thus far so will watch with interest Friday night. But of everyone else, there's only Chelsea right here, right now on how Conte is setting up, and not least with the added security of Kante within that, that are looking a real secure outfit back there.
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You were still well off against Arsenal side who could barely get any interplay through the middle. I expect it to get better, but it currently still needs a lot of work
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
It was naturally shambolic early as they were trying to learn a completely new system and way of playing with next to no training ground time to implement it. But it steadily improved the longer the year went on.

Now he's had that intensity pre-season, along with far better players. First half at Arsenal, for whatever reason, we never got started as we intended all across the pitch. But the second half when we did the defending as a team was a whole host better. One outstanding piece of play and deflected finish and a great free kick delivery aside. You can see big strides forward over his time here how the whole team is defending better. When we attack in spells like the opening 20 minutes the second half, very few if anyone will be able to contain that. And the more they grow the other end, with the added missing personnel back, we'll be closing out those leads.

I haven't seen Utd thus far so will watch with interest Friday night. But of everyone else, there's only Chelsea right here, right now on how Conte is setting up, and not least with the added security of Kante within that, that are looking a real secure outfit back there.
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The goal United conceded was from a very good finish and they are new to Mourinho's system so we should rule that one out for a start. Mata and Roonet's goals relied on luck a bit so they shouldn't be counted and Zlatans was a great piece of skill so that doesn't count. So the stats for both should read no goals scored or conceded.

City conceded mainly due to a Stones error and he is new the system so that should be written off. As for Sunderland who counts penalties? And then the own goal was down to a lot of luck so both sides should also have no goals scored or conceded.

Liverpool you have done so that leaves Arsenal's defence. Well two were just greats bits of skill by Mane and Coutinho so they shouldn't count. And since they are playing a young defender covering we should expect some drop off so let's get rid of the two other goals so that we don't have to remember about it.

As Chelsea, Watford, Southampton, United, City, Everton and Hull all appointed new managers no goals against them should count as they are learning the system.

Middlesbrough, Burnley and Hull are also new to the division so nothing against them should count. Tottenham played with an injured keeper so none should count against them. Crystal Palace shouldn't have the goal against them count as it was a good cross, Negredo scored with his shoulder against Stoke so that is luck and shouldn't count. West Ham have been playing in Europe's so the goals they let in shouldn't count, Leicester had Huth banned so the goals they let in shouldn't count either.

So every game ended 0-0 except Arsenal who won 1-0 should you phone the premier league to tell them the new results or will I?
 
ninjaskill said:
The goal United conceded was from a very good finish and they are new to Mourinho's system so we should rule that one out for a start. Mata and Roonet's goals relied on luck a bit so they shouldn't be counted and Zlatans was a great piece of skill so that doesn't count. So the stats for both should read no goals scored or conceded.

City conceded mainly due to a Stones error and he is new the system so that should be written off. As for Sunderland who counts penalties? And then the own goal was down to a lot of luck so both sides should also have no goals scored or conceded.

Liverpool you have done so that leaves Arsenal's defence. Well two were just greats bits of skill by Mane and Coutinho so they shouldn't count. And since they are playing a young defender covering we should expect some drop off so let's get rid of the two other goals so that we don't have to remember about it.

As Chelsea, Watford, Southampton, United, City, Everton and Hull all appointed new managers no goals against them should count as they are learning the system.

Middlesbrough, Burnley and Hull are also new to the division so nothing against them should count. Tottenham played with an injured keeper so none should count against them. Crystal Palace shouldn't have the goal against them count as it was a good cross, Negredo scored with his shoulder against Stoke so that is luck and shouldn't count. West Ham have been playing in Europe's so the goals they let in shouldn't count, Leicester had Huth banned so the goals they let in shouldn't count either.

So every game ended 0-0 except Arsenal who won 1-0 should you phone the premier league to tell them the new results or will I?
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Legit best thing I have read today!
 
ninjaskill said:
The goal United conceded was from a very good finish and they are new to Mourinho's system so we should rule that one out for a start. Mata and Roonet's goals relied on luck a bit so they shouldn't be counted and Zlatans was a great piece of skill so that doesn't count. So the stats for both should read no goals scored or conceded.

City conceded mainly due to a Stones error and he is new the system so that should be written off. As for Sunderland who counts penalties? And then the own goal was down to a lot of luck so both sides should also have no goals scored or conceded.

Liverpool you have done so that leaves Arsenal's defence. Well two were just greats bits of skill by Mane and Coutinho so they shouldn't count. And since they are playing a young defender covering we should expect some drop off so let's get rid of the two other goals so that we don't have to remember about it.

As Chelsea, Watford, Southampton, United, City, Everton and Hull all appointed new managers no goals against them should count as they are learning the system.

Middlesbrough, Burnley and Hull are also new to the division so nothing against them should count. Tottenham played with an injured keeper so none should count against them. Crystal Palace shouldn't have the goal against them count as it was a good cross, Negredo scored with his shoulder against Stoke so that is luck and shouldn't count. West Ham have been playing in Europe's so the goals they let in shouldn't count, Leicester had Huth banned so the goals they let in shouldn't count either.

So every game ended 0-0 except Arsenal who won 1-0 should you phone the premier league to tell them the new results or will I?
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What a rant!
 
Bujakaa said:
..... Then talking about defence a lot goes down in system they play and I would add midfield. That department was and is better ant united. We saw how hard it is now for Leichester without Kante, much more pressure on defense. For example Drinkwater went more to help with defense than he usually did last season, then he could concentrate more on offense.
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We don't play with an ostensively 'true' DM mate and I very much doubt we'll ever buy one through the crazy German's regime. It'll be more a Dahoud all-rounder type. The more controlling midfielder in there. I'd of loved Kante, because I love Kante as a player. Great signing for a Conte team. But he wouldn't of been a regular at ours, Can't justify splashing £30 plus million on someone who'd be a specialist in a handful of games a season when you have a Lucas or a Kev Stewart for cheap that will fulfil that. Klopp more expects his midfielders to be allrounders and do that job as a combination within the team structure.
 
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My 2 cents on defensive systems.
According to me, of the top teams Liverpool will ship the most goals this season, because of low possession and the high line and exhaustive pressing of their tactics.City will look Vulnerable for their high line, but won't concede as many as say a Liverpool because of all their possession(ala Bayern).Man Utd and Chelsea will be water-tight due to their manage's tactics(mind, they will still score bucket loads of goals, just not as many or in as spectacular a way as a Liverpool or man city) Leicester will stay tight defensively, but won't score as many as they did at the start of last season for the simple reason that teams respect them more and they can't just keep grinding 1-0, 2-0 wins all the time, so I'd predict them to finish no higher than 6th.

The way Leicester's season played out last year was eerily similar to Chelsea's, Chelsea were just a little more commanding at the start.If you take off all the fairytale around Leicester, they started the season playing fast paced counter attacking football, Chelsea played attractive football too, just had more possession due to their reputation.The second half is where it gets even more similar.Both teams knuckled down and started grinding 1-0, 2-0 victories, Mourinho didn't offer his team pizza, but they did keep a lot of clean sheets.I don't know my numbers, but iirc Chelsea lost just 3 games and so did Leicester(though Chelsea's last loss came after they'd already won the title, against West Brom).
tl;dr: Take the pizzaz out of Leicester's season and you get a replica of Chelsea 2014-15

The point I'm trying to make is that such a defensive style of grinding wins is not sustainable, this is the mistake Mourinho makes every time he manages a team for 3+ years, the lads get bored of the style and then he tries to fire them up using the media, wields the hair dryer, alienates the team and finally has to leave. Ranieri needs to not make the mistake that Mourinho made.He needs to come up with a new system, freshen things up and play a more sustainable and fun form of football, else they'll end up just like Chelsea.
 
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Scouseinthehouse said:
We don't play with an ostensively 'true' DM mate and I very much doubt we'll ever buy one through the crazy German's regime. It'll be more a Dahoud all-rounder type. The more controlling midfielder in there. I'd of loved Kante, because I love Kante as a player. Great signing for a Conte team. But he wouldn't of been a regular at ours, Can't justify splashing £30 plus million on someone who'd be a specialist in a handful of games a season when you have a Lucas or a Kev Stewart for cheap that will fulfil that. Klopp more expects his midfielders to be allrounders and do that job as a combination within the team structure.
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I'm not sure how much if amy of this is actually accurate

Klopp has rolled with a DM or destroyer I mean Sven Bender anyone? He could pass the ball and do the other stuff but iirc his role was to be a destroyer, but I mean thats not the main issue I have here.

1 to say Ngolo Kante wouldn't get in your team and would be subs bench material is quite laughable, for the reasons you decribe above for what Klopps wants out of a CM. What Bujakaa is saying is that Kante wasn't a true DM, becuase he wasn't did he fulfil the destroyer role?of course but he wasn't a true DM he did everything, pass, assist, tackle, press, etc etc. Now are you trying to tell me he wouldn't get in the Liverpool team ahead of that absolutely epic all rounder beast of a CM Emre Can? Or Wijnaldum (assuming he plays CM seem to recall that waz thean whe you bought him?) Or Milner? I mean seriously?

Its one thing to say Pools back 4 is better than Uniteds but to say Kante would only make your bench is quite literally another...
 
Equilibrio said:
My 2 cents on defensive systems.
According to me, of the top teams Liverpool will ship the most goals this season, because of low possession and the high line and exhaustive pressing of their tactics.City will look Vulnerable for their high line, but won't concede as many as say a Liverpool because of all their possession(ala Bayern).Man Utd and Chelsea will be water-tight due to their manage's tactics(mind, they will still score bucket loads of goals, just not as many or in as spectacular a way as a Liverpool or man city) Leicester will stay tight defensively, but won't score as many as they did at the start of last season for the simple reason that teams respect them more and they can't just keep grinding 1-0, 2-0 wins all the time, so I'd predict them to finish no higher than 6th.

The way Leicester's season played out last year was eerily similar to Chelsea's, Chelsea were just a little more commanding at the start.If you take off all the fairytale around Leicester, they started the season playing fast paced counter attacking football, Chelsea played attractive football too, just had more possession due to their reputation.The second half is where it gets even more similar.Both teams knuckled down and started grinding 1-0, 2-0 victories, Mourinho didn't offer his team pizza, but they did keep a lot of clean sheets.I don't know my numbers, but iirc Chelsea lost just 3 games and so did Leicester(though Chelsea's last loss came after they'd already won the title, against West Brom).
tl;dr: Take the pizzaz out of Leicester's season and you get a replica of Chelsea 2014-15

The point I'm trying to make is that such a defensive style of grinding wins is not sustainable, this is the mistake Mourinho makes every time he manages a team for 3+ years, the lads get bored of the style and then he tries to fire them up using the media, wields the hair dryer, alienates the team and finally has to leave. Ranieri needs to not make the mistake that Mourinho made.He needs to come up with a new system, freshen things up and play a more sustainable and fun form of football, else they'll end up just like Chelsea.
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Defensive football is not sustainable I guess no one told Diego Simeone.....
 
Take out of context much Epic?

I said when we only need that type of specialist player for a handful of games a season, you couldn't justify dropping £30 plus million on him. If we are to do that, then a more all round box-to-box controller in the Dahoud style is far more suitable for L'pool.

*Edit* And group. I said we have a better collective group of defenders than Utd. But it's a fruitless debate as it's all subjective.
 
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