The Manchester United Thread

[Vanjagl]

Nobody is dictating you what to expect. But nobody expects United fans to dictate other teams fans what to expect too. That was the whole point of the discussion.

He is. It's rather pointless discussion and I always liked to stay away from those. Mike. and GC will gladly argue with you guys, y'know, since they have no life.

 

[Andras99]

It might have been your point. But it wasn't alcaraz's. He did try to dictate that. And he was inaccurate

Alcaraz is a grown man, he can carry his own battles. I'm glad we sorted ours out.

 

[Mike.]

Alcaraz is a grown man, he can carry his own battles. I'm glad we sorted ours out.

Aye. For what its worth my view on chelsea then is one I would have on us. If we are first or second in Feb and LVG starts referring to us as little horses, I'm going to be ******. That's not what I want to hear from a United manager

 

[Sherkey]

Aye. For what its worth my view on chelsea then is one I would have on us. If we are first or second in Feb and LVG starts referring to us as little horses, I'm going to be ******. That's not what I want to hear from a United manager

I dunno, that sounds more like Moyes' failed attempt at mind-games.// Under LvG, we should get our arrogance and swagger back..

 

[Alcaraz]

It might have been your point. But it wasn't alcaraz's. He did try to dictate that. And he was inaccurate

Not trying to dictate anything mate. That's my personal opinion and you are happy to disagree with it if you like. I just want the same same barometer applied to every team

 

[Alcaraz]

Chelsea didn't have anywhere near the drop off. That's a fact. Right now no is thinking about the title seriously. Come back in January

You only had the drop off because one manager ****** up ... Not because your squad was terrible. You removed the manager already. This point really isn't as significant as you try to make it seem

 

[MANUMAD]

The fact of the matter is -

The board expect Europe.
The fans want Europe.
The press expect us to get back to Europe.

How this is downplaying expectations I will never know? Not once as anyone linked with the club fans,board,manager,press said we will win the title at the start of the season. Come January if the team has gelled and players learnt the philosophy and we are 2-3 points off top I expect expectations to change, even go back in the market.

Well, yes exactly. It even happens in FM ffs! (being asked if you want to change your expectations after performing better than expected till December).

 

[Alcaraz]

Except he's already said it and most media agree. Good one

I wonder if he said after AFTER you bought Falcao who is easily the 2nd best if not the best striker in the world. Good one for ignoring everything else I said

 

[MANUMAD]

Whoa... when I wake up I want to read about Di Maria and Falcao jumping around Old Trafford with little bunnies, kitties and puppies, not Chelsea fans dictating what United fans should expect this season.

Have we been drinking quite a bit again then?!

 

[Alcaraz]

Work out the difference between being seen as title contenders and being one. Then come back to this thread. United are club that is seen to win everything. No one in or the club believes they can currently do it this year. Note currently. So yeah you're still wrong about expectations. Because the club still aren't expecting a title run.

If you don't think that a club can win the title despite having a very solid squad, net spend of £200m and only involved in two competitions then you are probably right ... You lot have developed a loser mentality. United are title contenders with the squad they have and should be seen as one. If you think the squad has performed to it's potential by getting 4th then you are a fool

 

[Alcaraz]

And seriously Mike, if you are only going to give one line rebuttals to 4-5 paragraphs of text then you might as well not reply and continue pointless discussions. Agree to disagree and we can move on

 

[MANUMAD]

If you don't think that a club can win the title despite having a very solid squad, net spend of £200m and only involved in two competitions then you are probably right ... You lot have developed a loser mentality. United are title contenders with the squad they have and should be seen as one. If you think the squad has performed to it's potential by getting 4th then you are a fool

Having read all MIKE's recent posts on this (as I hope you have), THIS is what you understand he has said/claimed?! REALLY?!!!!

 

[Sherkey]

You only had the drop off because one manager ****** up ... Not because your squad was terrible. You removed the manager already. This point really isn't as significant as you try to make it seem

Squad has deteriorated and lost form. That is a factor. Our defence - all our experienced defenders gone in one swell shot. No Vidic, Ferdinand and Evra. Ferdinand had declined a bit, but Vidic and Evra were still necessary, atleast for this season. Not to mention, two of our captains. Only Jones has looked in any bit of form from our old defence.

Also lost another captain in Giggs, and that's a tremendous loss of experience there. Carrick is still injured, and maybe short of confidence after Moyes era. Cleverley was probably forever ruined by Moyes (or probably was just as bad earlier, but it was masked over by Ferguson's brilliance). Fletcher is yet to completely go back to pre-injury level. Fellaini... Well, let's not talk about him atm, I'm hoping LvG can still do some magic with him.

The point is, yes we dropped off because Moyes ****** up. But just assuming that Moyes era didn't leave us in tatters, you'll probably be just kidding yourself. Form and confidence are just as important as anything else. And after Moyes, that was in tatters. LvG is fixing it, but as stated before, takes time.

Also, after Benitez, your squad was still whole, and you still had a respectable finish with a trophy, I believe. Compare that with us, we've had our most disastrous season in a while, most of our experienced players and captains have left, lots of newcomers in, and you can see why everyone is saying we need time. To suggest anything would be foolish, it takes time for a new team to gel in, and that's not even counting in an entirely new formation and philosophy.

If just having a team with WC players were enough to win a trophy, PSG would be bossing it around in the CL (Ibra, Cavani, Silva, Moura whatnot). Yes, with a team with WC players, you're expected to win. But that's once the team has adjusted and gelled.

Don't get me wrong, by January, if we're around 5-6 points off the top, and some idiot reporter or w/e tries to write us off as challengers, I'd be furious, and that applies to LvG too. We should be aiming for the title that time. But reaching that level by January is a bonus, is essentially what is being said/

 

[Sherkey]

Whoa, completely missed Varela going out on loan to Castilla. I knew it was in the offing, but hadn't realised it was being completed, lol. As long as it is only loan and he comes back, it should be ok. He'll also be working under Zidane, so that shou;d be interesting to watch..

 

[Theatreof Dreams]

Whoa, completely missed Varela going out on loan to Castilla. I knew it was in the offing, but hadn't realised it was being completed, lol. As long as it is only loan and he comes back, it should be ok. He'll also be working under Zidane, so that shou;d be interesting to watch..

Lol 18 players out in total this window at first team and reserve level.

 

[Alcaraz]

Squad has deteriorated and lost form. That is a factor. Our defence - all our experienced defenders gone in one swell shot. No Vidic, Ferdinand and Evra. Ferdinand had declined a bit, but Vidic and Evra were still necessary, atleast for this season. Not to mention, two of our captains. Only Jones has looked in any bit of form from our old defence.

Also lost another captain in Giggs, and that's a tremendous loss of experience there. Carrick is still injured, and maybe short of confidence after Moyes era. Cleverley was probably forever ruined by Moyes (or probably was just as bad earlier, but it was masked over by Ferguson's brilliance). Fletcher is yet to completely go back to pre-injury level. Fellaini... Well, let's not talk about him atm, I'm hoping LvG can still do some magic with him.

The point is, yes we dropped off because Moyes ****** up. But just assuming that Moyes era didn't leave us in tatters, you'll probably be just kidding yourself. Form and confidence are just as important as anything else. And after Moyes, that was in tatters. LvG is fixing it, but as stated before, takes time.

Also, after Benitez, your squad was still whole, and you still had a respectable finish with a trophy, I believe. Compare that with us, we've had our most disastrous season in a while, most of our experienced players and captains have left, lots of newcomers in, and you can see why everyone is saying we need time. To suggest anything would be foolish, it takes time for a new team to gel in, and that's not even counting in an entirely new formation and philosophy.

If just having a team with WC players were enough to win a trophy, PSG would be bossing it around in the CL (Ibra, Cavani, Silva, Moura whatnot). Yes, with a team with WC players, you're expected to win. But that's once the team has adjusted and gelled.

Don't get me wrong, by January, if we're around 5-6 points off the top, and some idiot reporter or w/e tries to write us off as challengers, I'd be furious, and that applies to LvG too. We should be aiming for the title that time. But reaching that level by January is a bonus, is essentially what is being said/

1. You still have so much experience in your defense. Players like Evans, Smalling and Jones have been at United for some time now and been part of title winning campaigns. They don't need a grandpa Evra to hold their hands anymore. I am sorry but experience is a non-issue imo

2. Giggs is still there as assistant manager mate. It's not like you lost his experience and expertise. Carrick may be short of confidence and injured but surely that's not going to resolve sooner rather than later. Fletcher has just been made vice captain so he is still serviceable. Fellaini is a good player who just had a bad season. Add Blind and Di Maria to this midfield and it's still pretty alright. Not the best but not that bad either

3. Actually confidence returned probably the day LVG was announced. As I said before, these players were EPL champions just last year. Just because of one bad season, it doesn't mean their confidence is in tatters. These guys are used to winning and confidence will come back quickly if it hasn't come back already. Also you added many players after Moyes left such as Di Maria, Falcao, Rojo, Herrera and Blind as well as Mata to a certain extent and these guys will be the core of your team and they are free of the after effects of the Moyes era so again this is a non issue for me personally

4. The drop off for Chelsea definitely wasn't as bad as United's but it was still pretty stark. We had a roller coaster of a 3 seasons where we lucked our way to the CL, FA Cup and Europa League despite inherent instability and obvious deficiencies in the squad. You can perhaps argue that Chelsea's confidence wasn't broken but as I already pointed out above, confidence really isn't as significant a issue as y'all are making it out to be. You definitely cannot argue that Chelsea's squad at that point was better than United's for sure. As for the whole gelling in part, Mourinho was faced with the same problems and he was involved in all competitions yet he got mocked when he said Chelsea weren't title challengers. Also on the experience part, I don't think that's a problem. The players you still have at the club are an experienced group and you added world clas talented as well

5. Actually PSG would have made it much further last year if it wasn't for a miraculous come back by Chelsea. Also they have been in the CL for only two seasons so a rather small sample size to based a broad argument on. Teams take time to gel but the best teams want to win even when in 'transition' as Mike so aptly pointed out to mock Mourinho when he said Chelsea weren't title contenders

 

[Alcaraz]

Having read all MIKE's recent posts on this (as I hope you have), THIS is what you understand he has said/claimed?! REALLY?!!!!

He mentioned that the club aren't expecting a title run despite being involved in only two competitions and having a very solid squad. Yet he was the one who was arguing about how even the best teams want to win during their 'transition' phrase when Chelsea fans said they would be happy with a Top 4 finish last season

 

[Alcaraz]

Honestly I have a simple question. United have brought in Mata, Falcao, Di Maria, Rojo, Blind and Herrera in recent months which is a class group of players. They are only involved in 2 competitions this term. They have a great manager in Van Gaal

So if United finish 4th and 20 points off top place ... Do y'all think this squad has performed to what it was capable of? Did it perform to it's full potential?

 

[Theatreof Dreams]

I don't care how many points we finish off top as long as we get back in the CL. That's just me. Im sure oher utd people will feel different.

 

[Joel`]

Some famous quotes from last season from mainly ManU fans:

"I like how you cherry pick when Jose is playing the media game and when he is not to suit you/him.
You've all been wheeling out the excuse that you're in transition for about 5 seasons now. The best teams expect to win regardless of whether they're in "transition" or not, anything else is bitterly disappointing. I fail to see how you can go into a season being satisfied that what's being "built" is good and not wanting anything this year. You're supposed to want to win every single season."

"Amazing how Chelsea fans are so content with writing themselves off."

"Last year when Benitez finished 3rd this thread was up in arms about how Chelsea always has to challenge for trophies.
This year Mourinho said they're not challenging for trophies and half of fanbase just sheep-accepts it and goes " OK , we'll do it next year". "

"So? Realistically City had a way better squad than us last year, but you'd never hear Fergie coming out and saying "They're better, but there's always next year lads"."

"Maybe not pole position, but you were definitely one of the two most likely winners. According to Jose top 4 was the aim.
Laughable, really."

Some things come back and bite you in the ***, don't they?

Pretty sure nearly all of them are me. And I'm pretty sure I haven't said anything about top 4 being the only target for us this year.