The Manchester United Thread

Joel` said:
Pretty sure nearly all of them are me. And I'm pretty sure I haven't said anything about top 4 being the only target for us this year.
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There were more, i just picked a few that stood out, i don't want to write a novel. I wasn't targeting you on purpose, if you feel that i did, i can always look up the rest of the comments.
 
Andras99 said:
There were more, i just picked a few that stood out, i don't want to write a novel. I wasn't targeting you on purpose, if you feel that i did, i can always look up the rest of the comments.
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No I remember the conversations, just didn't think it was fair to use quotes by me to label all united fans on here for what they might/might not have said. For the record, I agree with you and alcaraz that the squad on paper is good enough for a title shot. I don't think we should be satisfied with "just" the top 4, it's the absolute bare minimum. We should always aim for more, and you can guarantee LVG won't just settle for the top 4, but realistically if we don't make the title I think there has to be an understanding about why not, and we can't be too disappointed.
 
Andras99 said:
There were more, i just picked a few that stood out, i don't want to write a novel. I wasn't targeting you on purpose, if you feel that i did, i can always look up the rest of the comments.
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No I remember the conversations, just didn't think it was fair to use quotes by me to label all united fans on here for what they might/might not have said. For the record, I agree with you and alcaraz that the squad on paper is good enough for a title shot. I don't think we should be satisfied with "just" the top 4, it's the absolute bare minimum. We should always aim for more, and you can guarantee LVG won't just settle for the top 4, but realistically if we don't make the title I think there has to be an understanding about why not, and we can't be too disappointed.
 
Alcaraz said:
1. You still have so much experience in your defense. Players like Evans, Smalling and Jones have been at United for some time now and been part of title winning campaigns. They don't need a grandpa Evra to hold their hands anymore. I am sorry but experience is a non-issue imo

2. Giggs is still there as assistant manager mate. It's not like you lost his experience and expertise. Carrick may be short of confidence and injured but surely that's not going to resolve sooner rather than later. Fletcher has just been made vice captain so he is still serviceable. Fellaini is a good player who just had a bad season. Add Blind and Di Maria to this midfield and it's still pretty alright. Not the best but not that bad either

3. Actually confidence returned probably the day LVG was announced. As I said before, these players were EPL champions just last year. Just because of one bad season, it doesn't mean their confidence is in tatters. These guys are used to winning and confidence will come back quickly if it hasn't come back already. Also you added many players after Moyes left such as Di Maria, Falcao, Rojo, Herrera and Blind as well as Mata to a certain extent and these guys will be the core of your team and they are free of the after effects of the Moyes era so again this is a non issue for me personally

4. The drop off for Chelsea definitely wasn't as bad as United's but it was still pretty stark. We had a roller coaster of a 3 seasons where we lucked our way to the CL, FA Cup and Europa League despite inherent instability and obvious deficiencies in the squad. You can perhaps argue that Chelsea's confidence wasn't broken but as I already pointed out above, confidence really isn't as significant a issue as y'all are making it out to be. You definitely cannot argue that Chelsea's squad at that point was better than United's for sure. As for the whole gelling in part, Mourinho was faced with the same problems and he was involved in all competitions yet he got mocked when he said Chelsea weren't title challengers. Also on the experience part, I don't think that's a problem. The players you still have at the club are an experienced group and you added world clas talented as well

5. Actually PSG would have made it much further last year if it wasn't for a miraculous come back by Chelsea. Also they have been in the CL for only two seasons so a rather small sample size to based a broad argument on. Teams take time to gel but the best teams want to win even when in 'transition' as Mike so aptly pointed out to mock Mourinho when he said Chelsea weren't title contenders
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1. No offence, mate, but you have no idea what you're talking about if you're calling Smalling and Jones experienced. They've never even been given half a season of consecutive runs playing at CB (where they're expected to play now). Just being at a team doesn't give you experience, no? It does not count as experience. :\ Evans, I'll give you that, solid if and when he gets adjusted to this new formation. But otherwise? No. And Evra? You're kidding me right? It'd have been ideal if Shaw had been given a chance to work with Evra for a season. You can argue Shaw has been playing in the PL, but there's a difference between playing for Soton and playing for a big club like United. Zaha is testament to the fact that it ain't easy. Note that I'm not undermining Shaw's talent, just giving you facts on why Evra'd be good. You're joking if you think experience is a non-issue, especially since we lost 3 effing captains. :\

Also, confidence isn't a significant issue? Heck, ask Torres that// I've lost count of the number of chances he's missed, many times 1-on-1, mainly due to a lack of confidence. He's not AS bad as his Chelsea career is making him out to be. (Btw, Torres here isn't intended as a dig or anything of the sort to Chelsea fans, his name was the first one to crop up among those matches I watched.) Confidence is still essential. Why do you think teams feared Old Trafford. The confidence that we could win, no matter what or who. Confidence is ****** vital to a team and a player. Atm? Still low on confidence, imo, Moyes made Old Trafford from a fortress to a ****** sieve. It's LvG's job to bolster that, and some good results later, it could happen quickly.

As for whole gelling part? Mourinho, when he came in, only made very few transfers to the first team././ Schurrle, Willian and Eto'o in, and Matic in January (Others were mainly reserves, so don't count, including van Ginkel). There were barely any first team outgoings, mainly involving Benayoun, Essien, Malouda and Mata in January. They had their experienced main players retained, the captains were retained. What gelling in time? There wasn't a major upheaval of formation either, just of tactics, which any top manager is supposed to ingratiate in reasonably fast. Compare that to so, so, so many transfers that've happened for us, both in and out, along with loss of captains, which makes you realise why gelling in is a big thing for us now.

Also, lack of confidence? You made your way into the FA Cup, CL etc etc with a supposedly broken squad. We went to 7th, with a squad that was Champions the year before. Do tell me which is more busting.
 
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And yes, I'm not stating our only aim should be top-4. But our main aim is gelling in a completely new squad and getting built in on confidence. It's not like we're content to stay in the top 4. No. We're United, we ****** want to win, but realistically, by the end of the season, getting into Europe is the minimum aim. Anything beyond that by January, and a title push will definitely be considered.
 
Alcaraz said:
1. You still have so much experience in your defense. Players like Evans, Smalling and Jones have been at United for some time now and been part of title winning campaigns. They don't need a grandpa Evra to hold their hands anymore. I am sorry but experience is a non-issue imo

2. Giggs is still there as assistant manager mate. It's not like you lost his experience and expertise. Carrick may be short of confidence and injured but surely that's not going to resolve sooner rather than later. Fletcher has just been made vice captain so he is still serviceable. Fellaini is a good player who just had a bad season. Add Blind and Di Maria to this midfield and it's still pretty alright. Not the best but not that bad either

3. Actually confidence returned probably the day LVG was announced. As I said before, these players were EPL champions just last year. Just because of one bad season, it doesn't mean their confidence is in tatters. These guys are used to winning and confidence will come back quickly if it hasn't come back already. Also you added many players after Moyes left such as Di Maria, Falcao, Rojo, Herrera and Blind as well as Mata to a certain extent and these guys will be the core of your team and they are free of the after effects of the Moyes era so again this is a non issue for me personally

4. The drop off for Chelsea definitely wasn't as bad as United's but it was still pretty stark. We had a roller coaster of a 3 seasons where we lucked our way to the CL, FA Cup and Europa League despite inherent instability and obvious deficiencies in the squad. You can perhaps argue that Chelsea's confidence wasn't broken but as I already pointed out above, confidence really isn't as significant a issue as y'all are making it out to be. You definitely cannot argue that Chelsea's squad at that point was better than United's for sure. As for the whole gelling in part, Mourinho was faced with the same problems and he was involved in all competitions yet he got mocked when he said Chelsea weren't title challengers. Also on the experience part, I don't think that's a problem. The players you still have at the club are an experienced group and you added world clas talented as well

5. Actually PSG would have made it much further last year if it wasn't for a miraculous come back by Chelsea. Also they have been in the CL for only two seasons so a rather small sample size to based a broad argument on. Teams take time to gel but the best teams want to win even when in 'transition' as Mike so aptly pointed out to mock Mourinho when he said Chelsea weren't title contenders
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I think everyone agrees that this squad on paper is one of the best in the world, but football isn't just about paper and there are other things that come in to play. We want top 4, that is our goal. To get back to the top. I don't understand why you keep telling us what our expectations should be. Obviously we would love to win the title and be title challengers but right now we aren't there as we are still gelling. It is not a looser mentality it is realistic. Come Jan if were in the running great go all out and do the best we can to win. Expectations change based on current circumstances and basing your expectations on anything but the current circumstance is ridiculous.
 
MANUMAD said:
Having read all MIKE's recent posts on this (as I hope you have), THIS is what you understand he has said/claimed?! REALLY?!!!!
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He does this a lot. At this point once I realise he's failed to see what I'm talking about, I usually stop answering him.
It's why when I do talk to Chelsea fans it's the others I talk to. And I now include andreas99 in that. Even I'd we disagree I don't have to worry about my words being twisted.
 
Theatreof Dreams said:
There transfer stratergy makes no sense whatsoever. I don't know what Perez thinks half the time.
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Perez is like a spoilt kid, with football players his accessible toys. Tactics and team suitability don't matter, big names do..//
 
Think of it like when you're exceeding expectations on FM, and by January you get the 'Change Season Expectations' notification from the boardroom.
 
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