The Manchester United Thread

[damola3]

The rivalry between United and Liverpool is a shadow of what it used to be. That's because of the gap between the teams as Liverpool has fallen away. It still is a great rivalry, however I don't think that it can lay claim to the best anymore.

I don't think that Liverpool can be considered a giant anymore. They are nothing special in terms of resources or popularity around the world anymore.

Liverpool and Manchester aren't comparable to London in terms of culture, history or development. Liverpool is horrible underdeveloped. It still is a very good rivalry however it's more locational that divisional. In the 21st Century United had arguably had a bigger rivalry with Arsenal (Until 2008) and City until Fergie left. It's the same with the North London Derby which was much bigger 5 years ago, when the teams were much closer.

your are joking right no history or culture get your head out of your *** myn god i have read some **** you have posted but this 1 takes the **** all i can say is WOW

 

[kitchin75]

ok i read that wrong sorry

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

The rivalry between United and Liverpool is a shadow of what it used to be. That's because of the gap between the teams as Liverpool has fallen away. It still is a great rivalry, however I don't think that it can lay claim to the best anymore.

I don't think that Liverpool can be considered a giant anymore. They are nothing special in terms of resources or popularity around the world anymore.

Liverpool and Manchester aren't comparable to London in terms of culture, history or development. Liverpool is horrible underdeveloped. It still is a very good rivalry however it's more locational that divisional. In the 21st Century United had arguably had a bigger rivalry with Arsenal (Until 2008) and City until Fergie left. It's the same with the North London Derby which was much bigger 5 years ago, when the teams were much closer.

As often you have little concept of what you responded to so it's pointless trying to educate you.

 

[sunilvk7]

The rivalry between United and Liverpool is a shadow of what it used to be. That's because of the gap between the teams as Liverpool has fallen away. It still is a great rivalry, however I don't think that it can lay claim to the best anymore.

I don't think that Liverpool can be considered a giant anymore. They are nothing special in terms of resources or popularity around the world anymore.

Liverpool and Manchester aren't comparable to London in terms of culture, history or development. Liverpool is horrible underdeveloped. It still is a very good rivalry however it's more locational that divisional. In the 21st Century United had arguably had a bigger rivalry with Arsenal (Until 2008) and City until Fergie left. It's the same with the North London Derby which was much bigger 5 years ago, when the teams were much closer.

In English football there is no rivalry that can rival ManUtd vs Liverpool.

Scouse is wrong about bitter rivalry though, it's not even bitterest in Europe. Roma vs Lazio is just amazing and then we have some Eastern European rivalries and Turkish clubs that just take the ****.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

In English football there is no rivalry that can rival ManUtd vs Liverpool.

Scouse is wrong about bitter rivalry though, it's not even bitterest in Europe. Roma vs Lazio is just amazing and then we have some Eastern European rivalries and Turkish clubs that just take the ****.

I'd say the violence certainly isn't to the degree these days of anything like what still goes on in other places (mercifully); but the hatred felt between both sets of supporters is no greater anywhere else in the main.

It's funny, it's never rally been like that with City. With City, it has always been a strictly L'pool/ Manchester thing. Sometimes you'd go Maine Road, and it would go all over. Other times, it would be relatively peaceful. United has NEVER been like that. That edge above and beyond the inner-City rivalry has always been there and always will. And it sadly manifests itself in some of the lowest forms of human nature possible.

But above and beyond that, what made damola's response even more ludicrous was the complete dismissing of the two great Northern City's compared to London. Certainly in the 2000's, the amount of regeneration and investment that have gone into both City's has been immense and both are right up there with anything else anyone wants to put forward in England. There's very little London can offer (outside of Royalty) that Liverpool and Manchester now can't.

It's just arrogance of the highest order to so flippantly dismiss everything there is to offer up here and one can only presume it's born from someone who goes with the tired media stereotype and has never had the pleasure of travelling to either City to experience their rich history, diverse culture, fantastic amenities, centres for the stage and arts, unmatched sport and even better nightlife.

I could go on and on in detail and rip his argument to complete shred's but this is a football platform after all and not a tourist advertisement so I'll leave him to his complete blissful ignorance.

 

[sunilvk7]

I'd say the violence certainly isn't to the degree these days of anything like what still goes on in other places (mercifully); but the hatred felt between both sets of supporters is no greater anywhere else in the main.

Agree with rest except this part. In England there is no rivalry to rival this but in Europe and South America the hatred is on another level.

Even in UK, the rivalry between Rangers and Celtic is far more than just football which takes rivalry and bitterness to whole another level.

Fenerbache vs Galatasaray, Ajax vs Feynoord, Belgrade vs Partizan, Olympiakos v Panathinaikos, Roma Vs Lazio are all very very bitter rivalries. Also there is Madrid vs Barca which is much more than just football.

With Liverpool vs ManUtd it's just Yeah munich bastards, 96 and all that **** but the above rivalries are much more than just vocal and even if someone offers me free ticket I will think twice to go to the game except Barca Vs Madrid.

ManUtd vs Liverpool is bitter rivalry though, like you said 2 of the most successful clubs in English football but there is a limit here. It's biggest in the England without a doubt but I disagree with outside England.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

I get and appreciate that and maybe I'm not conveying my feelings well enough in words.

There's certain places and derbies I wouldn't go without having someone with first hand knowledge of what areas to go and where not to go to direct me and keep me safe. From that aspect I wouldn't disagree. But L'pool/ Utd is so much more than just football in its own right. Yeah, the football is the focal point where everything comes out. But it's two major World City's, both now and going right back to the beginning of the Industrial age, so close yet so far apart from one another in reality.

Is that as heated as the religious aspect for example of the Old Firm game? You could make a fair argument that it isn't. Nor games where political views come into it.

But I just don't personally think the feeling between the majority of the two sets of supporters is any less felt than anywhere else personally if that makes sense? Even if it doesn't manifest itself to the degrees of serious trouble that is still a regular occurrence the rest of the World. Shrugs.

Just my opinion through living here my entire life and seeing and experience just what Liverpool and United is all about.

But regardless, as you say, there's nottin' like it at all in England. I loved the fact Ferguson has never lost sight of that and has played his part in keeping it right at the forefront of the one team United must always be in front of. He understood FULLY just what it means to the fans of both clubs.

As much I hate the game with a passion in many ways for all the dark side of the day, I equally can't wait for 5:30 PM Saturday evening!

 

[damola3]

I get and appreciate that and maybe I'm not conveying my feelings well enough in words.

There's certain places and derbies I wouldn't go without having someone with first hand knowledge of what areas to go and where not to go to direct me and keep me safe. From that aspect I wouldn't disagree. But L'pool/ Utd is so much more than just football in its own right. Yeah, the football is the focal point where everything comes out. But it's two major World City's, both now and going right back to the beginning of the Industrial age, so close yet so far apart from one another in reality.

Is that as heated as the religious aspect for example of the Old Firm game? You could make a fair argument that it isn't. Nor games where political views come into it.

But I just don't personally think the feeling between the majority of the two sets of supporters is any less felt than anywhere else personally if that makes sense? Even if it doesn't manifest itself to the degrees of serious trouble that is still a regular occurrence the rest of the World. Shrugs.

Just my opinion through living here my entire life and seeing and experience just what Liverpool and United is all about.

But regardless, as you say, there's nottin' like it at all in England. I loved the fact Ferguson has never lost sight of that and has played his part in keeping it right at the forefront of the one team United must always be in front of. He understood FULLY just what it means to the fans of both clubs.

As much I hate the game with a passion in many ways for all the dark side of the day, I equally can't wait for 5:30 PM Saturday evening!

My point in the first place is that divisional rivalries have taken precedent over locational rivalries in the Sky generation and that the Liverpool, United rivalry isn't as big as it used to be. Arsenal United for the first decade of the 21st century and United City a few years after that were more bitter divisional rivalries for a while because Liverpool didn't compete with United well on the pitch. I still said that it's a great rivalry.

Anyone educated enough, let alone in economics knows that Liverpool and Manchester can't be spoken about in terms of global influence and development. Liverpool is among the least developed areas in the UK. Manchester is second in this regard, but can't be compared to London in terms of scale. To put this into perspective, London is the world's largest financial centre and a major event there can change the lives of everyone in the world.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Sighs. Ignorance is bliss.

The more you repeat it doesn't make it any less incorrect than it did the first time.

But carry on unabated if it helps you.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Total aside but if anyones at a loose end this late Sunday afternoon, Turkey vs. Netherlands might well be an intense watch in 20 minutes or so

Aside from seeing how Memphis would of looked with RVP right now, Holland are in serious danger of missing the playoff's. Let alone automatically qualifying for next summer's Nations Cup.

Must win game. With Turkey in the same boat to jump above them into third with 2 to play.

Set up for a real compelling International.

 

[kitchin75]

My point in the first place is that divisional rivalries have taken precedent over locational rivalries in the Sky generation and that the Liverpool, United rivalry isn't as big as it used to be. Arsenal United for the first decade of the 21st century and United City a few years after that were more bitter divisional rivalries for a while because Liverpool didn't compete with United well on the pitch. I still said that it's a great rivalry.

Anyone educated enough, let alone in economics knows that Liverpool and Manchester can't be spoken about in terms of global influence and development. Liverpool is among the least developed areas in the UK. Manchester is second in this regard, but can't be compared to London in terms of scale. To put this into perspective, London is the world's largest financial centre and a major event there can change the lives of everyone in the world.

there really is no hope for you just give it a rest

 

[epic terrorist]

Never been to Liverpool vs Manu game it is on the bucket list but i imagine game day is pretty intense given the amount of roses derbies I have been too, which were also pretty intense.

Done a few Euro derbies ajax, Hull has a ferry trip which is a fun weekend, done el clasico which was good but a little bit of a let down but the most intense derby i have been to where things went FUBAR and i genuinely thought **** me how am i getting out of here with all my faculties intact was the Flu-Fla derby that was mental something i will never ever forget.

 

[sunilvk7]

Looks like Dutch won't be in Euros. Only thing going for them is Turkey's next games are against Czech and Iceland.

Depay looked by far their best player but without Robben they look so clueless.

 

[epic terrorist]

Looks like Dutch won't be in Euros. Only thing going for them is Turkey's next games are against Czech and Iceland.

Depay looked by far their best player but without Robben they look so clueless.

Crazy how the wheels have come off for the dutch

 

[sunilvk7]

BTW there were few people who argued that getting 3rd place for Netherlands was not a big achievement as they had very good talent and it was minimum expectation.

Looks like it's going well for them. I said it at that time, getting this Dutch team to the 3rd place was a great achievement.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

BTW there were few people who argued that getting 3rd place for Netherlands was not a big achievement as they had very good talent and it was minimum expectation.

Looks like it's going well for them. I said it at that time, getting this Dutch team to the 3rd place was a great achievement.

In Brazil? Really?

I honestly had them struggling to get out of the group. I had Spain winning that group (and retaining the WC. THAT went well for me ), with Chile taking second spot.

Looked at the Dutch squad, a mix of a few ageing greats in probably their last tournament, and some very inexperienced youth still playing at home; and had them down as an early big name casualty from the groups along with England and maybe Portugal.

I guess after they licked Spain 5-1 and rolled through the group, folk just looked at the name and presumed they were the Netherlands of the past.

As tediously poor as they were in the knock-outs (felt REAL sorry for Costa Rica against them who deserved better); I agree it was a great achievement to take such an average squad to the semi's.

 

[lxl Ra lxl]

The Netherlands in the WC weren't that exciting. The freak result against Spain was, but after that it went downhill.

Imo, we are struggling at the moment with the mental part. They aren't pure proffesionals anymore who can take a set back. It is the same as it used to be with dutch field hockey, they hadn't won a single major tournament since 2007. They don't have the mentality to get over a set back straighten up and say **** it, we are gooing to win anyways!

What we lacked this match tbh was some luck. Klaassen and Wijnaldum had great chances to score a goal and I thought RVP was playing really well in the first half. We are just lacking Clasie. Blind doesn't have the authority to be that ball winning midfielder who can still pass.

 

[Joel`]

But above and beyond that, what made damola's response even more ludicrous was the complete dismissing of the two great Northern City's compared to London. Certainly in the 2000's, the amount of regeneration and investment that have gone into both City's has been immense and both are right up there with anything else anyone wants to put forward in England. There's very little London can offer (outside of Royalty) that Liverpool and Manchester now can't.

It's just arrogance of the highest order to so flippantly dismiss everything there is to offer up here and one can only presume it's born from someone who goes with the tired media stereotype and has never had the pleasure of travelling to either City to experience their rich history, diverse culture, fantastic amenities, centres for the stage and arts, unmatched sport and even better nightlife.

I've just moved back up north after 3 years in London for Uni. While London is fantastic, the cost of living is so much higher and it's not justified IMO. Spending hours cramped in the tube per day for your commute while you spend almost all of your salary on rent for a **** flat in Elephant & Castle, all for the glamour and privilege of living in London. Most of my friends all had a similar attitude towards the north (having never been there) but couldn't believe how nice (and how much cheaper it is) the north actually is.

 

[Subtle]

I've just moved back up north after 3 years in London for Uni. While London is fantastic, the cost of living is so much higher and it's not justified IMO. Spending hours cramped in the tube per day for your commute while you spend almost all of your salary on rent for a **** flat in Elephant & Castle, all for the glamour and privilege of living in London. Most of my friends all had a similar attitude towards the north (having never been there) but couldn't believe how nice (and how much cheaper it is) the north actually is.

But above and beyond that, what made damola's response even more ludicrous was the complete dismissing of the two great Northern City's compared to London. Certainly in the 2000's, the amount of regeneration and investment that have gone into both City's has been immense and both are right up there with anything else anyone wants to put forward in England. There's very little London can offer (outside of Royalty) that Liverpool and Manchester now can't.

The thing is, once you get off student money and start making decent cash (and London pays considerably more for equivalent posts) it's just unrivalled in terms of what it can offer at the very highest level. It has a draw for top chefs, actors etc that only a handful of other cities in the world can hope to offer. I'm not saying you don't get great things in other parts of the country (Bristol is still much underrated as well tbh) but in London they're acquired effortlessly. It's all about whether or not you have the money/pull to get you into those secret tasting menus, into the ultra luxe members' clubs and the Notting Hill balls.

So if you're a multimillionaire footballer, you would have to be batshit crazy to choose Liverpool or Manchester (and I'm rather fond of the former) over London. I mean that in the least disrespectful way possible -both are great cities- it's just that London can be that good if you have what it needs.

 

[Joel`]

The thing is, once you get off student money and start making decent cash (and London pays considerably more for equivalent posts) it's just unrivalled in terms of what it can offer at the very highest level. It has a draw for top chefs, actors etc that only a handful of other cities in the world can hope to offer. I'm not saying you don't get great things in other parts of the country (Bristol is still much underrated as well tbh) but in London they're acquired effortlessly. It's all about whether or not you have the money/pull to get you into those secret tasting menus, into the ultra luxe members' clubs and the Notting Hill balls.

So if you're a multimillionaire footballer, you would have to be batshit crazy to choose Liverpool or Manchester (and I'm rather fond of the former) over London. I mean that in the least disrespectful way possible -both are great cities- it's just that London can be that good if you have what it needs.

You only start making mental cash when you have a city job working 80+ hours a week (and I'll never understand why people do that, no matter what they're getting paid). Other than that, you'll get a couple grand more at best, which won't even cover the rent difference. Also depends how keen you are to aspire to the top end restaurants and members' clubs. I can see how the exclusivity appeals to a famous footballer, but they're the last places I'd wanna go, regardless of what I earn.