The Manchester United Thread

[Scouseinthehouse]

Right, but you should never want your team to lose. It's frankly stupid logic

This is such a tricky and emotive one for me.

You're right. You should always want your team to win regardless. Not wanting that goes against the very ethos of being a fan if nothing else. And things can turn by winning.

But I can see why people would be driven to that if they genuinely don't see things improving and are that frustrated by someone clinging to a job with just enough results that aren't taking the club forward in the bigger picture. A long term good> short term gratification thing.

Not saying it's right or wrong. But I can understand that as I've been there, rightly or wrongly, three times with Suness, Hodgson and Rodgers. Horrible position to be in.

But I can also well understand the flip side of anyone believing I was wrong for that.

 

[Mike.]

This is such a tricky and emotive one for me.

You're right. You should always want your team to win regardless. Not wanting that goes against the very ethos' of being a fan if nothing else. And things can turn by winning.

But I can see why people would be driven to that if they genuinely don't see things improving and are that frustrated by someone clinging to a job with just enough results that aren't taking the club forward in the bigger picture. A long term good> short term gratification thing.

Not saying it's right or wrong. But I can understand that as I've been there, rightly or wrongly, three times with Suness, Hodgson and Rodgers. Horrible position to be in.

But I can also well understand the flip side of anyone believing I was wrong for that.

There is no guarantee of good. There is no one riding to the rescue. The best you can hope for is Pep in the summer, or Simeone. Otherwise you get Jose now. I think it's telling the players put in one of the best games with Jose at his closest

 

[zzeezzy]

Well that's pretty stupid, United WON TITLES winning games badly. The key is to string them together. Are you really saying you'd take an exciting loss right now?

Thing about getting rid of a manager: make sure you replace him with somehow who is going to be better.

Who is this different manager sitting around ready to play attacking football in January? We'd all love to win and play amazing, but there is no fairyland manager going to do that in the next few games. Liverpool have realised that even under Klopp. United to dig in themselves, and raise their own levels, maybe add a few in the window

Jose is the one who would get the job, and you don't like him either!

But you have to look at it from the angle of LVG has admitted he is retiring after next season, so right now sticking with him is only worth it if we are moving in the right direction, not only in terms of results but also the way we want to be playing.

If we don't get Pep then there is going to be no better time anyway to get a new manager because realistically who else would we even go after who would be available any time soon?

Personally more I think about it more I would want as an alternative to Pep someone like Pochettino.

 

[Mike.]

But you have to look at it from the angle of LVG has admitted he is retiring after next season, so right now sticking with him is only worth it if we are moving in the right direction, not only in terms of results but also the way we want to be playing.

If we don't get Pep then there is going to be no better time anyway to get a new manager because realistically who else would we even go after who would be available any time soon?

Personally more I think about it more I would want as an alternative to Pep someone like Pochettino.

None of these managers are leaving mid season, because they could all be successful this season.

So actually what you need is LVG to be successful till the end THEN he goes.

Let's not miss the point. If LVG goes right now you are getting Jose for the next 3 years, or his next meltdown, whichever comes first.

That is your choice right now, no one else

 

[Tyton]

Who is this different manager sitting around ready to play attacking football in January?

Bielsa is available.

 

[Mike.]

Bielsa is available.

Don't even joke

 

[Mike.]

I get what you are trying to say zzezzy. But unless you want Mourinho and are convinced he's going to be a success, the only thing you really want is LVG making it to the end of the season doing well, because then the club is in a good.
That's when what you want really comes into play, because then you can chase Simeone and Poch and co.

Losing would only undermine that, and badly

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

There is no guarantee of good. There is no one riding to the rescue. The best you can hope for is Pep in the summer, or Simeone. Otherwise you get Jose now. I think it's telling the players put in one of the best games with Jose at his closest

Well, yeah, there's the other thing. Van Gaal goes, and you'd think Utd would turn to the only current one out there with the stature to manage the club. Who I agree with you is the very last man you want in the job. But then if you won enough games the second half to keep him into year three, but performances were just as bad, would anyone want that? And then you're liable to of lost any chance you might of had on Pep into the bargain.

It's a horrible all round situation.

Again not disagreeing with you at all that you should always want your team to win football matches.

Just personally find it a very emotive and tricky issue to say what's right and wrong when a fan is driven to that line of reasoning.

 

[Tyton]

Don't even joke

Hey, if people want attacking football, excitment and drama, look no further.

 

[zzeezzy]

I get what you are trying to say zzezzy. But unless you want Mourinho and are convinced he's going to be a success, the only thing you really want is LVG making it to the end of the season doing well, because then the club is in a good.
That's when what you want really comes into play, because then you can chase Simeone and Poch and co.

Losing would only undermine that, and badly

I didn't say I wanted us to lose, just that I didn't want us to win, especially when we put in a performance like today. On the contrary the other day when we played Chelsea I actually said we deserved the win, as it was a much better performance and we merited the 3 points.

Either way I can understand your side of the coin and realistically you're right we will not get any manager we most likely want now anyway so we have to pray that LVG gets us in top 4 this season. But right now, my panic is actually coming from the matter of us even being good enough to get top 4. If it's based on recent performances I think we're really going to struggle.

 

[Mike.]

Well, yeah, there's the other thing. Van Gaal goes, and you'd think Utd would turn to the only current one out there with the star to manage the club. Who I agree with you is the very last man you want in the job. But then if you won enough games the second half to keep him into year three, but performances were just as bad, would anyone want that? And then you're liable to of lost any chance you might of had on Pep into the bargain.

It's a horrible all round situation.

Again not disagreeing with you at all that you should always want your team to win football matches.

Just personally find it a very emotive and tricky issue to say what's right and wrong when a fan is driven to that line of reasoning.

Route C, wins enough to get to the end with United doing well. Then you bin him off.

That is exactly the route the club should take. But there is a power struggle going on. Suspect Woodward's own future is tied to it

 

[Mike.]

I didn't say I wanted us to lose, just that I didn't want us to win, especially when we put in a performance like today. On the contrary the other day when we played Chelsea I actually said we deserved the win, as it was a much better performance and we merited the 3 points.

Either way I can understand your side of the coin and realistically you're right we will not get any manager we most likely want now anyway so we have to pray that LVG gets us in top 4 this season. But right now, my panic is actually coming from the matter of us even being good enough to get top 4. If it's based on recent performances I think we're really going to struggle.

Even if you want him to go, for the club to benefit it mus happen the right way, with the club in a strong place. I would happily see him go, but not with the club broken and nowhere to turn to.

 

[Mike.]

I was probably pretty harsh on you there, but you don't want to see clubs having to rebuild from such desperate places

Scouse can tell you all about Liverpool on that front

 

[zzeezzy]

I was probably pretty harsh on you there, but you don't want to see clubs having to rebuild from such desperate places

Scouse can tell you all about Liverpool on that front

Totally get it, think we can all agree that the next manager has to be the right one or it could be another step into the wilderness. Pretty much all the decisions we make from here on out have to be right, starting in this transfer window. I'd rather us not strengthen than get in another mediocre player, we need proven quality. (Especially if we're trying to address the lack of goals problem with the limited chances we have, although while Rooney remains it's pointless because they will be on the bench majority of time).

 

[tigertailz001]

Most of United supporters who want to sacked Louis van Gaal, are mainly youngsters who can't remember the days before Sir Alex Ferguson. Myself I've been supporting United since 1979 under Dave Sexton and after him Ron Atkinson before Sir Alex Ferguson got the job. Both of them weren't bad managers but didn't deliverer the title.
Don't get me wrong of course I want see United win matches and play with some attacking swagger.
But it just could be the law of averages, like Liverpool reign at the top of English football (late seventies/early eights) came to the end and they're still looking right formula to return to top again. And they've been through quite lot managers since then like Kenny Dalglish (player/manager) who won last title, Graeme Souness, Roy Evans, Gerard Houllier, Rafa Benitez, Roy Hodgson, Kenny Dalglish again, Brendan Rodgers and now Jürgen Klopp. Also we don't want to go down that road that Chelsea goes sacking manager after 2 / 1.5 seasons in charge.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

I was probably pretty harsh on you there, but you don't want to see clubs having to rebuild from such desperate places

Scouse can tell you all about Liverpool on that front

Yeah but I'm all for you dropping that low so it's probably best if I kept quiet haha. .

 

[Tyton]

Short-term vs. long-term is not even a debate right now. We're mid-season, so short-term is a priority. You can worry about long-term when the season is over.

In other words, even if you want LVG out, you better pray he steadies the ship and lands in top 4. All while the club can work behind the scenes to bring a replacement manager, who will have comfortable situation coming in.

The alternative is to bring Mourinho right now, who doesn't fit the club ethos at all, has about 50% chance to cause a massive disaster, and even if he does good, he's not some miracle worker who will fix obvious problems with the squad, using magic wand.

Speaking of magic, the massive injury crisis is over, everybody bar Valencia and Shaw is available, and suddenly you're collecting points again, delivering solid performances. Who woulda thought.

 

[tigertailz001]

Short-term vs. long-term is not even a debate right now. We're mid-season, so short-term is a priority. You can worry about long-term when the season is over.

In other words, even if you want LVG out, you better pray he steadies the ship and lands in top 4. All while the club can work behind the scenes to bring a replacement manager, who will have comfortable situation coming in.

The alternative is to bring Mourinho right now, who doesn't fit the club ethos at all, has about 50% chance to cause a massive disaster, and even if he does good, he's not some miracle worker who will fix obvious problems with the squad, using magic wand.

Speaking of magic, the massive injury crisis is over, everybody bar Valencia and Shaw is available, and suddenly you're collecting points again, delivering solid performances. Who woulda thought.

Only trouble with short-term theory is no one is planning for seasons ahead, i.e. Sir Alex Ferguson planned two seasons ahead. So he knew which players wanted to keep and who he wanted to sell or release up to his decision to retire. Otherwise you keeping on buying new players in every new season for new manager and getting rid of one's previous manager had. Unless copy the way Swansea and Southampton method of bring in managers to continue same style of play/Philosophy. Or employing Director of Football to buy players for the manager.

 

[Mike.]

Totally get it, think we can all agree that the next manager has to be the right one or it could be another step into the wilderness. Pretty much all the decisions we make from here on out have to be right, starting in this transfer window. I'd rather us not strengthen than get in another mediocre player, we need proven quality. (Especially if we're trying to address the lack of goals problem with the limited chances we have, although while Rooney remains it's pointless because they will be on the bench majority of time).

100%. And I'm with you replacing LVG in the summer. But we need to get there in good shape first, by hook or by crook. Then step it up with someone else. This was the season I would judge him on, and he does not stand up for me.

 

[Legend Incredible]

Short-term vs. long-term is not even a debate right now. We're mid-season, so short-term is a priority. You can worry about long-term when the season is over.

In other words, even if you want LVG out, you better pray he steadies the ship and lands in top 4. All while the club can work behind the scenes to bring a replacement manager, who will have comfortable situation coming in.

The alternative is to bring Mourinho right now, who doesn't fit the club ethos at all, has about 50% chance to cause a massive disaster, and even if he does good, he's not some miracle worker who will fix obvious problems with the squad, using magic wand.

Speaking of magic, the massive injury crisis is over, everybody bar Valencia and Shaw is available, and suddenly you're collecting points again, delivering solid performances. Who woulda thought.

Err Rojo?...jones? Young? Lingard?...

Sent from my SM-G900T1 using Tapatalk