The Manchester United Thread

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Theatre of Dreams83 said:
Oh and Roma can f right off with an offer of 12/13m euros for Smalling!
Click to expand...

Said it before and Sherkey has agreed recently with a similar post, we should defo keep Smalling this season unless we get a CB in to replace him. Honestly why do we always get baited in to selling players on the cheap? Right now it has more value to us to keep him than let him go, especially when you consider how many games we have and the depth.

But more to the point, I'm just going to be real here, Smalling was better than Koulibally last season, Napoli are still demanding an inflated price when you consider the price of Smalling.

In summary, keep unless we get a replacement... even if he wants to go that shouldn't compromise that we'll be left short in that area this season without a replacement.
 
Theatre of Dreams83 said:
Oh and Roma can f right off with an offer of 12/13m euros for Smalling!
Click to expand...

Welcome to the Italian way of transfer dealings. Straight forward Lukaku deals are the major exception to the norm.

Worst Country of any for getting any value in sales with. (And if they want a loan with an 'obligation to buy' forget it. That obligation will invariably NEVER be met and tehy'll come back again for the same loan the next year to continue getting free players for a season on another clubs ticket.).

Unless they are the ones selling. Then suddenly they want extortionate prices and the majority of the deal upfront.

Always have been and always will be a corrupt set of cheeky btards!
 
Upcoming top 6 season views on the TIA site-

www.thisisanfield.com

Reds' title rivals attempt to spend their way to catch up

Who to watch out for and where fans think they'll finish
www.thisisanfield.com www.thisisanfield.com

The Utd fans view-

Man United

FAN: Kadeem Simmonds – @KadeemSimmonds

Where do you think Man United will finish?

Fifth, fourth if we are lucky. There have been some players who have kicked on under Ole Gunnar Solskjaer – the likes of Anthony Martial, Mason Greenwood and Brandon Williams – but his inability to get anything out of anyone outside of the starting XI is worrying and while all fans want fresh new signings, what happened to old-fashioned coaching?

Why does he not trust anyone off the substitutes’ bench when these are players who had good spells before Bruno Fernandes arrived?

Fred and Scott McTominay were doing well, and while they may be squad players, he will need them at times this season and must do a better job of making sure the squad can play his way and not just his starting XI.

If he can’t get anything out of the bench in games where the starting lineup are having an off day – it will happen – I worry that we will drop silly points and end up needing clubs above us to drop points at the end of the season to finish inside the top four.

It may be asking too much for lightning to strike twice.

Advice for visiting supporters to your stadium…

Wear a mask, listen to the advice which says wear a mask and maintain social distancing and until fans are allowed back at Old Trafford, stay well away.

When fans are back, wash your hands and continue to wear a mask. And obviously enjoy the experience and count yourself lucky that you are one of the select few to be allowed into football during the current climate.

Anything new at your club?

Outside of the awful third kit, which makes us look like cows, it feels like just another season.

Well, and our captain got arrested with what sounded like a plot for Taken 4!

But the media says he is a model professional and that he would never get in trouble, so we should all assume he’s totally innocent.

Champions League football, that’s new I guess, and there’s a somewhat happy Paul Pogba and more competition for David de Gea in the form of Dean Henderson.



Coming from a club with a manager who believes in teaching/ coaching above anything else to improve what he has first and foremost before looking to the market (and then improving anyone who he has brought in on the training ground), the line in the first paragraph ' ..... but his inability to get anything out of anyone outside of the starting XI is worrying and while all fans want fresh new signings, what happened to old-fashioned coaching? ' should resonate with all of you rather than the poor excuse of 'the squads not strong enough/ poor Ole' et al cry's.

Until such time as it is, trust in what you have and your own coaching ability and improve what you have to work with.
 
Last edited:
zzeezzy said:
Said it before and Sherkey has agreed recently with a similar post, we should defo keep Smalling this season unless we get a CB in to replace him. Honestly why do we always get baited in to selling players on the cheap? Right now it has more value to us to keep him than let him go, especially when you consider how many games we have and the depth.

But more to the point, I'm just going to be real here, Smalling was better than Koulibally last season, Napoli are still demanding an inflated price when you consider the price of Smalling.

In summary, keep unless we get a replacement... even if he wants to go that shouldn't compromise that we'll be left short in that area this season without a replacement.
Click to expand...
I agree. But if he wants to go I would rather not have an unhappy player around. Because even if he stays he’s he’s still gonna be behind Maguire, Bailey, Linderlof, Tuanzebe. Ole has made it clear he rates these player higher. Big big season for Tuanzebe mind.

Then you have to factor in if we don’t get any buyers for Jones and Rojo this Summer.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
Upcoming top 6 season views on the TIA site-

www.thisisanfield.com

Reds' title rivals attempt to spend their way to catch up

Who to watch out for and where fans think they'll finish
www.thisisanfield.com www.thisisanfield.com

The Utd fans-

Man United

FAN: Kadeem Simmonds – @KadeemSimmonds

Where do you think Man United will finish?

Fifth, fourth if we are lucky. There have been some players who have kicked on under Ole Gunnar Solskjaer – the likes of Anthony Martial, Mason Greenwood and Brandon Williams – but his inability to get anything out of anyone outside of the starting XI is worrying and while all fans want fresh new signings, what happened to old-fashioned coaching?

Why does he not trust anyone off the substitutes’ bench when these are players who had good spells before Bruno Fernandes arrived?

Fred and Scott McTominay were doing well, and while they may be squad players, he will need them at times this season and must do a better job of making sure the squad can play his way and not just his starting XI.

If he can’t get anything out of the bench in games where the starting lineup are having an off day – it will happen – I worry that we will drop silly points and end up needing clubs above us to drop points at the end of the season to finish inside the top four.

It may be asking too much for lightning to strike twice.

Advice for visiting supporters to your stadium…

Wear a mask, listen to the advice which says wear a mask and maintain social distancing and until fans are allowed back at Old Trafford, stay well away.

When fans are back, wash your hands and continue to wear a mask. And obviously enjoy the experience and count yourself lucky that you are one of the select few to be allowed into football during the current climate.

Anything new at your club?

Outside of the awful third kit, which makes us look like cows, it feels like just another season.

Well, and our captain got arrested with what sounded like a plot for Taken 4!

But the media says he is a model professional and that he would never get in trouble, so we should all assume he’s totally innocent.

Champions League football, that’s new I guess, and there’s a somewhat happy Paul Pogba and more competition for David de Gea in the form of Dean Henderson.



Coming from a club with a manager who believes in teaching/ coaching above anything else to improve what he has first and foremost before looking to the market (and then improving anyone who he has brought in on the training ground), the line in the first paragraph ' ..... but his inability to get anything out of anyone outside of the starting XI is worrying and while all fans want fresh new signings, what happened to old-fashioned coaching? ' should resonate with all of you rather than the poor excuse of 'the squads not strong enough/ poor Ole' et al cry's.

Until such time as it is, trust in what you have and your own coaching ability and improve what you have to work with.
Click to expand...
Don’t agree tbh. He had Fred, McTominey plating there best football since being with us. After Lockdown they struggled to find form even though Fred did do well in his last few cameos.

Nothing has shown me YET. That Ole can’t coach players or different tactics during certain matches.
 
Simon Stone
@sistoney67
"Manchester United are liaising with the Football Association and are disappointed with the actions of Mason Greenwood over this situation."
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
Upcoming top 6 season views on the TIA site-

www.thisisanfield.com

Reds' title rivals attempt to spend their way to catch up

Who to watch out for and where fans think they'll finish
www.thisisanfield.com www.thisisanfield.com

The Utd fans view-

Man United

FAN: Kadeem Simmonds – @KadeemSimmonds

Where do you think Man United will finish?

Fifth, fourth if we are lucky. There have been some players who have kicked on under Ole Gunnar Solskjaer – the likes of Anthony Martial, Mason Greenwood and Brandon Williams – but his inability to get anything out of anyone outside of the starting XI is worrying and while all fans want fresh new signings, what happened to old-fashioned coaching?

Why does he not trust anyone off the substitutes’ bench when these are players who had good spells before Bruno Fernandes arrived?

Fred and Scott McTominay were doing well, and while they may be squad players, he will need them at times this season and must do a better job of making sure the squad can play his way and not just his starting XI.

If he can’t get anything out of the bench in games where the starting lineup are having an off day – it will happen – I worry that we will drop silly points and end up needing clubs above us to drop points at the end of the season to finish inside the top four.

It may be asking too much for lightning to strike twice.

Advice for visiting supporters to your stadium…

Wear a mask, listen to the advice which says wear a mask and maintain social distancing and until fans are allowed back at Old Trafford, stay well away.

When fans are back, wash your hands and continue to wear a mask. And obviously enjoy the experience and count yourself lucky that you are one of the select few to be allowed into football during the current climate.

Anything new at your club?

Outside of the awful third kit, which makes us look like cows, it feels like just another season.

Well, and our captain got arrested with what sounded like a plot for Taken 4!

But the media says he is a model professional and that he would never get in trouble, so we should all assume he’s totally innocent.

Champions League football, that’s new I guess, and there’s a somewhat happy Paul Pogba and more competition for David de Gea in the form of Dean Henderson.



Coming from a club with a manager who believes in teaching/ coaching above anything else to improve what he has first and foremost before looking to the market (and then improving anyone who he has brought in on the training ground), the line in the first paragraph ' ..... but his inability to get anything out of anyone outside of the starting XI is worrying and while all fans want fresh new signings, what happened to old-fashioned coaching? ' should resonate with all of you rather than the poor excuse of 'the squads not strong enough/ poor Ole' et al cry's.

Until such time as it is, trust in what you have and your own coaching ability and improve what you have to work with.
Click to expand...
I'm kinda divided on this, honestly. The worry is more that Ole doesn't trust the bench and if that continues, no way we make the top 4, players will be knackered come the final stages of the tournament. However, that could also be him getting players upto exactly how he wants them to play (and well, it took Klopp and Guardiola a while to get their players doing exactly what was required, and if memory serves me right, there was little rotation once a fixed 11 had been established (in the initial seasons)). Mind you, a case can be made of him having had enough time, not touching that now.

As for players, he has improved players a lot. Martial has kicked on very well, and is a more rounded player than before, while still retaining the dribbling and unpredictability (this was what I loved most about him during the Mou era, as he was the only one who tried something new). A lot of the first 11 have improved, and Fred, before his dropping, was actually pretty decent (even if he misplaces too many passes for my liking). Whether they need to improve to the next stage is something that is up for discussion, and something we will find out this season, as we come across as one-dimensional many times.

Which brings the main concern - we still seem to lack a proper plan. I don't mean a set identity, as we have never had that - it always changed with the times, even under Fergie and he was an incredibly reactive coach (wrt opposition). We don't have a plan to break a low block against weaker opposition and our players seem one-dimensional - in their movement, running etc. Granted, it improved dramatically post Bruno, but you have to take into account that teams will target him now. How Ole actually improves on counter-attack tactics to create something more will have a big say on Top-4 this season (and let's be realistic, our aim will be Top-4 this season and then kicking it on from there). I suspect another creator in van de Beek will help, but there needs to be a clear plan to break down opposition like that.

Which is the final point - no matter how you phrase it - we do need more signings. While Ole has improved players (and can and should improve them more), there are ceilings. Greenwood is playing far too many games for my liking (considering his age). He needs to be managed more carefully. You can see that he wants his front three to be fluid and interchange positions (something a Lingard may not be able to do - limitation, pace etc). And, despite us having a plethora of CBs, Maguire is the only one I feel confident in (and he is a solid defender (nothing more, nothing less) who can still improve).

Like I've maintained earlier, the squad actually has a very good base. A couple of signings, bring in youth and we will be in a pretty good place going forward. It's those couple of signings that are crucial though. But even with/without, if Ole continues to still only rely on the first 11 mainly, then we may struggle to get Top-4 as the players will be gassed come the far end of the campaign. You would suspect he realises this and has better plans for the squad (also evidenced by us turning down Galatasaray for Fred, according to rumours).
 
If he has improved players (he and his staff), why doesn't he then trust the bench? Or his ability to get the best out of what's behind his first XI?

One contradicts the other there if he's not using the squad.
 
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Scouseinthehouse said:
If he has improved players (he and his staff), why doesn't he then trust the bench? Or his ability to get the best out of what's behind his first XI?

One contradicts the other there if he's not using the squad.
Click to expand...
That will remain to be seen this season imo. Squad rotation etc. I think he does trust certain players on the bench obviously not all. And has players playing a lot better underneath him.

Just my opinion especially after the restart when he went away from using the bench so much was that every game was a cup final a pressure cooker and he stuck with largely the best players in terms of quality to get us to the 3rd spot.

It will become a more valid talking point when this season begins. Personally don’t think it will be an issue. As before lockdown he was rotating a lot with players getting mins off the bench even though the quality simply wasn’t there.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
If he has improved players (he and his staff), why doesn't he then trust the bench? Or his ability to get the best out of what's behind his first XI?

One contradicts the other there if he's not using the squad.
Click to expand...
No, it doesn't. I didn't have a blanket statement stating he has improved every single player at the club. Has he improved players like Martial, Rashford, Greenwood etc? Definitely. Some players have also regressed, it's part of it.

I said that it may take time. In the initial stages of Klopp/Pep, it was similar - they had a certain 11 they preferred until they got their set players in. It could be the same with Ole (although he has had his time, which I also concede). Plus, every match after the lockdown was very important for us (securing Top-4 basis GD and Europa).

As for bench players, yes, Fred has improved under Ole, but may not fit his criteria of a defensive midfielder (who can drop back to the defense area). Lingard/Pereira regressed, but let's be honest, Pereira never hit the ability that was expected of him even earlier. Outside of that, who? McTominay improved his overall game under Ole.

There's a ceiling you hit, improving players. I would be worried if he hadn't improved anyone at the club, but that isn't the case. I'm more worried about the tactical plan, but anyhow, that's breaking the point. Certain players may not suit his style/squad, which is fair. Every coach has their preferences. Whether he maximises what he has will be shown this season, as he will have no choice but to use the bench due to the crazy schedule.
 
I actually can’t believe Andreas Periera and Jessie Lingard got 40 starts each for us last season.
???

Dan James 46. Wtf that’s way to much for him and what he was brought in as.

A lot of our bench players got loads of starts last season so that blows the rotation myth out of the water.

Mctominey 38 and that with missing 3 weeks injured. Fred got 48 starts.

Mata has 37 starts.
 
Wohoooo gtfi ??



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Sherkey said:
No, it doesn't. I didn't have a blanket statement stating he has improved every single player at the club. Has he improved players like Martial, Rashford, Greenwood etc? Definitely. Some players have also regressed, it's part of it.

I said that it may take time. In the initial stages of Klopp/Pep, it was similar - they had a certain 11 they preferred until they got their set players in. It could be the same with Ole (although he has had his time, which I also concede). Plus, every match after the lockdown was very important for us (securing Top-4 basis GD and Europa).

As for bench players, yes, Fred has improved under Ole, but may not fit his criteria of a defensive midfielder (who can drop back to the defense area). Lingard/Pereira regressed, but let's be honest, Pereira never hit the ability that was expected of him even earlier. Outside of that, who? McTominay improved his overall game under Ole.

There's a ceiling you hit, improving players. I would be worried if he hadn't improved anyone at the club, but that isn't the case. I'm more worried about the tactical plan, but anyhow, that's breaking the point. Certain players may not suit his style/squad, which is fair. Every coach has their preferences. Whether he maximises what he has will be shown this season, as he will have no choice but to use the bench due to the crazy schedule.
Click to expand...

As it seems a common thing at various times to compare to Klopp-

In that first season under Klopp, we had a horrendous injury list that lead to the best available fit XI being reserved for the Europa League final run with back end squad players and kids mixing and matching the league run-in. All with no players signed at all his first year. (From the October so just the January window. Bar a loanee to aid with the CH crisis we had when we were down to 2.). For him to get that group to two major finals, and finish within 2 games of City in 4th was a ridiculous achievement with someone else's squad (and an incredibly poor one at that), were you could see his ability to improve everyone on the training ground. We had 19 players make over 25 appearances with the likes of Benteke, Ibe, Clyne, Moreno, Lovren, Lucas all key players. All with the handicap of the abysmal Mignolet in nets too.

You then look at the second season with players like Origi, Clyne, Can, Lallana and Lovren making up the top 10 appearances as an example of sub-standard players he worked hard with to improve. Milner who many would have had out the door from the get-go making 40 appearances and being a main-stay. 16 players made over 25 appearances that second season. Which resulted in an improvement to get back into the CL spots for only the 2nd time in the previous 8 seasons. (Mignolet was still handicapping everything.).

His third season, or second full year, that had grown to 18 players making 25 plus appearances as the club mirrored up another CL season through the PL (the first time they'd had back-to-back CL seasons in a decade), by reaching the European Cup final in Kiev. With such studs as Moreno, Klaven, Can, Solanke and Lovren still main-stays as regular starters. (Mignolet now had the equally woeful Karius to rotate in ineptitude.).

I could go on but the point is if you're going to use Klopp in comparison, use him in the right context. He never has been scared to utilise every player at his disposal as he fully believes in his ability, above any else, to coach and educate through hard graft on the training pitch before he turns to the market. (People would say he has no interest int he domestic cups. I think from his point of view, he firmly believes in whatever side he picks and his own ability to coach them up to have as good a chance as the opposition they're playing. Call it arrogance in his own teaching ability or whatever but that confidence in himself is unwavering. And well-founded given there are very few players that he's had, either inherited or bought, including everyone that's left, that hasn't improved under his coaching.). Which you naturally have to eventually turn to utilise to improve further on what you have. But until you can get better players in to take you onto the next level, work with the players you have and at the least get the maximum out of their ability. That's the art of coaching in a nutshell.

Which your fella' either patently isn't doing, or he patently isn't trusting either those outside the perceived top 12/13, or his/ his staff's ability to get the best out of them.
 
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