The Manchester United Thread

MANUMAD said:
Erm, not exactly. I mean ok we ve been winging it under SAF since the days of Kanchelskis and Blonqvist but to say that we d been crossing the same amount as we had under SAF since the start of 09/10 is way off the mark as countless times we tried different tactics under SAF (not all successful and sometimes in one match) - and NEVER 81 (!) crosses.

Whereas all we ve been witnessing this season is metronomically doing the same ****** thing ...
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No seriously, barring yesterday's game, the figures are actually in line with that. That's not to defend Moyes, its actually a daming indictment of our wingplay post ronaldo. 2009/2010 we were as predictable as we are now. Everythign went down the right hand side through Valencia.
 
MANUMAD said:
Erm, not exactly. I mean ok we ve been winging it under SAF since the days of Kanchelskis and Blonqvist but to say that we d been crossing the same amount as we had under SAF since the start of 09/10 is way off the mark as countless times we tried different tactics under SAF (not all successful and sometimes in one match) - and NEVER 81 (!) crosses.

Whereas all we ve been witnessing this season is metronomically doing the same ****** thing ...
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It's not just this season. The difference is not having a god-like manager leading through force of will, and several key players constantly injured.

Last season we all said "Imagine if Carrick and RVP didnt stay fit"

Well, here we are....
 
Mike. said:
How we are playing now isnt how he/we want to play. Actually thats a lie about us crossing too much, the stats per game before theare the same as it has been for us since the 2009/10 season. We've been crossing too much the last few years because those are the wide players we have
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Some of these stats are definitely worth a look for all those that are lambasting Moyes at the moment. ( I didn't write this btw, shamelessly stole it from the Football Weekly Extraaaaaaa group)

Richard Duff said:
Most common criticism today - too many crosses.
Fair cop the average crosses per game this year has risen from 25 per game (p.g) to a league high 29. But is 4 crosses a game that huge a deal? City are 3rd on this stat with 24 a game and it's not an accusation you hear hurled at Pelligrini and co.

Number of through balls may be more telling, dropping from an average of 3 p.g last year to 1 p.g this year. (Is that as simple as the Scholes effect?)

United have become long ball merchants? There has been a rise in longballs. Averaging 62 p.g this year compared to 59 last year. Again this is not a huge difference and the stat is the same as Chelsea though and less than Spurs and Everton.

They are focusing too much on the flanks? Last year 28% of play came through middle 32% on left and 40% on right. This year has been a slight change 24% through middle 34% left and 42% right but again this is does not seem a ridiculous swing vastly altering the areas of pitch United play football in, though tellingly 24% is the lowest % in the league. (And if you are going to play so much down the right get a more effective winger than Tony V)

Possession is pretty much the same dropping from 56.2% to 55%, pass completion from 85.7% to 84%

Number of shots on goal has remained static and the amount of dribbles has actually increased from 6.7 p.g to 9.1

For me the difference is having a penetrative midfielder in the shape of Paul Scholes, is Moyes favouring the flanks so much because he knows he doesn't have the penetration further back in midifield so has no other option to create a goal threat? I'd say it's likely.

Until the Scholes shaped hole in midfield has been replaced this United team will be found out, this was evident 2+ years ago when City won league and fergie begged him out of retirement and has still not been addressed. Moyes isn't doing a good job, that is clear and I'm not defending him but where and how he has United playing is not as hugely different from latter day Fergie as we keep hearing.
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Mike. said:
They are big signings, because their impact matters more than their price tag. You seem to think the big price tag matters. Two of our best players in recent years cost 13m between them (Vidic and Evra) He also just made our record signing, who is an instant hit. His transfer record is about as mixed as Fergusons. I dont care if our players cost 5m or 50m, I care about if they are the right player. Considering who he has scouted so far, are any of them bad targets?

So your argument about his philosophy is rubbish then. First you say you dont like philosophy, then you say you dont care about how he played at Everton (which was his philosophy). Which is it then?

How we are playing now isnt how he/we want to play. Actually thats a lie about us crossing too much, the stats per game before theare the same as it has been for us since the 2009/10 season. We've been crossing too much the last few years because those are the wide players we have
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If that is your way of evaluating big signings than I would just say that we have different standards on that then.

Really? It seems to me that he had lost his philosophy though. Name me one good recent manager for a top club other than SAF that took a whole season to implement his philosophy while doing terribly but managed to comeback. The football philosophy of what I've seen from Moyes thus far in Man Utd is "cross as much as you can and eventually it will connect".

And I don't think the way we cross now is the same as the past few seasons. In the past we were crossing the ball searching for our strikers or to switch flanks, and they are usually good attempts. Nowadays we just fecking hit the ball into the box and hope something good will happen.

It's pointless to argue with you anyway. You think that Moyes is the greatest thing since sliced bread while I think he's absolute out of his depth and had been garbage for us. There is no way any of us will change our view so let's just stop this.
 
dasty said:
If that is your way of evaluating big signings than I would just say that we have different standards on that then.

Really? It seems to me that he had lost his philosophy though. Name me one good recent manager for a top club other than SAF that took a whole season to implement his philosophy while doing terribly but managed to comeback. The football philosophy of what I've seen from Moyes thus far in Man Utd is "cross as much as you can and eventually it will connect".

And I don't think the way we cross now is the same as the past few seasons. In the past we were crossing the ball searching for our strikers or to switch flanks, and they are usually good attempts. Nowadays we just fecking hit the ball into the box and hope something good will happen.

It's pointless to argue with you anyway. You think that Moyes is the greatest thing since sliced bread while I think he's absolute out of his depth and had been garbage for us. There is no way any of us will change our view so let's just stop this.
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See, I've never said that about Moyes being the greatest thing ever. So that is a very stupid point to make.

We do switch flanks all the time, but with no one to control the middle, it ends up crossing. Our crossing success rate hasnt really deviated either

Have a look at Subtle's post by the way, backs up what I say about crossing, and more importantly no CM control.
 
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What I will say ( and no doubt zzezzy agrees): Moyes' and United's success relies on us solving the centre of midfield this summer. It was never that realistic in January, but there can be no excuses in summer, no mitigating factors, short of every player turning us down. Do or die, its that simple.
 
Who is Veitman? Like I say yesterday, anything but supporting Moyes at this point is useless. He wont be sacked in Ferbruary, nor March, I can tell you that. So pull your head out of your ** and start giving him some support, because at this point supporting Moyes means supporting United.
 
Vanjagl said:
Who is Veitman? Like I say yesterday, anything but supporting Moyes at this point is useless. He wont be sacked in Ferbruary, nor March, I can tell you that. So pull your head out of your ** and start giving him some support, because at this point supporting Moyes means supporting United.
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Think Veltmann pays for ajax is a quality youngster all big teams are scouting him plays CB and is about 19 yrs old and is 1st team regular, one we should defo be looking at! On a side note good win by u21s tonight 2 great goals by Keane M and Pereira with a beauty from about 28-30 yards. We still have some good talent in Reserves, Petrucci was excellent controlled game from centre mid.
 
Mike. said:
Players scouted/wanted/seen by Moyes (assuming some of the stories have legs)

Astori
Moreno
Mangala
Vidal
Kroos
Hermann
Kruse
Veitmann
Marchisio
Shaw

In all seriousness can we say any of them are bad targets?
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Those highlighted are not bad targets, but I don't think we need Kruse. As for Hermann, perhaps. I like him, versatile and young.
 
Mike. said:
Players scouted/wanted/seen by Moyes (assuming some of the stories have legs)

Astori
Moreno
Mangala
Vidal
Kroos
Hermann
Kruse
Veitmann
Marchisio
Shaw

In all seriousness can we say any of them are bad targets?
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Realistically rule out probably Vidal/Kroos/Marchisio now. They will have great offers if they were looking for a way out from clubs with Champions League next season.

I honestly wouldn't mind someone less experienced, as long as the talent is there... I think Carrick and Fletcher can provide the experience for them to bed in.

Edit: You missed the crucial one out there, William Carvalho. Would make up for Pogba.
 
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zzeezzy said:
Realistically rule out probably Vidal/Kroos/Marchisio now. They will have great offers if they were looking for a way out from clubs with Champions League next season.

I honestly wouldn't mind someone less experienced, as long as the talent is there... I think Carrick and Fletcher can provide the experience for them to bed in.

Edit: You missed the crucial one out there, William Carvalho. Would make up for Pogba.
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These are just the ones off the top of my head, that I can remember, but it's fair to say they are right kind of targets.

Good call on Carvalho.

Of course no doubt we face a big fight for these level of players, which makes signing Mata (and actually, keeping Rooney) all the more important.
 
The win over Arsenal in November was a good indication of the style he is looking to implement. Kagawa / Evra combination on the left was effective as Evra naturally occupies the entire flank allowing Kagawa to drift inwards in possession to link up with Rooney and RVP. Rooney rather than being a number 10 was given a free role to dictate the game and Valencia on the right came in centrally off the ball to act as a third midfielder and on the ball took us up the pitch allowing us to push higher. We created the better chances in that game, and looked dangerous when we breaked. Now imagine if we had a proper midfielder in there instead of Jones and you'll see a more controlled game yet still carrying the skill on the break.
 
The S*n reporting that Rio Ferdinand is going to be left in England when United go on a 5-day warm weather break after the Arsenal game and that he will retire at the end of the season.

Also, I want William Carvalho. Already as good as Fernando of Porto (yes, he's that good) and is perfect for what we want. Will be one of the best midfielders in the world in the future, 100%.

Most seem to think we're in the drivers seat for him so I really hope we move fast before he catches more eyes at the World Cup.
 
Looking at few papers it looks like Moyes has lost the support of few senior players.

Vidic is leaving on free.
Rio is never in a match day squad and is apparently left out of trip to Dubai. Great way to improve team's morale when Rio is one of the most famous person in the dressing room. (maybe something to do with him leaking line ups)
Evra is for sure leaving on fee
Hernandez said he will talk about few things which everyone is sure that he wants out. Who can blame him though, he deserves to play regularly if not for ManUtd then for other top teams.

And now Zaha with this

BgI8MIcIIAA4SWA.jpg


Nothing like kicking the man in the nuts when he is down. Pathetic from our players (Moyes' fault too). You should get behind the manager and support him. Also I like Zaha but he should just get on the pitch and do the talking. He isn't doing anything good for him. Play well for Cardiff and prove manager he is wrong and get your first team chances rather than those pathetic digs on social media.
 
Should add, rene is a mater coach, but he is also not ready (though I actually want him to do really well)
 
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