Like you said superb coach but not manager. Just like CQ..
Edit: Btw it would be brilliant to have CQ back at club. He was our only creative thinking coach we had in the recent past.
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Like you said superb coach but not manager. Just like CQ..
Edit: Btw it would be brilliant to have CQ back at club. He was our only creative thinking coach we had in the recent past.
In an ideal world, both would get fired and come back to the club under Moyes.
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The reason why I say that is because he was SAF right hand man and should have picked up one or two tips along the way and he know the club and player and wouldn't have let all the great back room staff go.
I wish this would happen, but it's too late... bridges have been burnt and walls have been broken. Moyes would be extremely naive to expect that to happen now, considering he gave the players a chance but not them.
To be honest, now there is clearly problems in certain parts of the dressing room, does make you wonder whether Moyes is on borrowed time. It's alright not performing but being united for so long... at the moment we don't even appear to be that.
Think it's a bit unfair to criticize Moyes for clearing out the backroom staff. Most managers bring in their own men whenever they come at a new club, why should United be any different? He also brought in someone like Phil Neville who knows the club and most of the players ...
I think Rene wanted to leave but he didn't give chance to Phelan and Steele.
Doesn't make him qualified to be a manager though
Rene wanted out, he's incredibly ambitious. it was Phelan and Steele who were dispensed
I doubt he is on borrowed time. The "unrest" is from Rio, Hernandez (who has been complaining for 2 seasons now) and maybe Zaha. None of those are issues.
Maybe, but it's just more problems we don't need. I'm not gonna mock Moyes anymore, my opinions were made clear before and how I personally don't think he's right for this job.
But having said that, I just need to know how bad we allow it to get before any action is taken, I mean the form is absolutely shocking and say if we don't win 1 of the 2 next games, will it still be 'fine n dandy?
Perhaps tomorrow is a long-shot for us right now, but surely we simply have no excuses not to get a win against Palace. If we don't beat Fulham or Palace there is literally no where it can get easier.
[h=1]Is there worse to come at Old Trafford?[/h]
With big names set to exit, is the worst to come for Manchester United by Andy Mitten - ESPN FC
Posted by Andy Mitten who is very clued up on what is going on at ManUtd.
As a naive young Manchester United supporter, I assumed that the players whom I supported in the first team were all close mates who did everything together, including playing football.
- Payne: United plumb tactical depths vs. Fulham
- Jolly: Burn extinguishes United firepower
I assumed that they all got on and lived as one happy family and that they were all fans of the club who considered it a dream to play for United.
Then I grew up and met the players as a journalist, and a different picture began to emerge. Some were mates, no doubt. The lads who played in the class of '92 -- David Beckham, Gary Neville, Paul Scholes, etc. -- had much in common and remain friends.
Others, such as Gordon McQueen and Bryan Robson, became lifelong friends after meeting at the club in the 1980s.
But there were plenty of faces who didn't fit, and there was much evidence of cliques.
GettyImagesNemanja Vidic and Rio Ferdinand will lead an exodus of familiar faces from Manchester United this summer.
Was goalkeeper Gary Bailey, who played for the club between 1978 and '87, for instance, bullied because his newspaper of choice on the team bus wasn't a tabloid? Or because he was “middle class”? Or because he didn't drink eight pints of beer on a night out?
I've interviewed hundreds of footballers, many of them former United players, and can count on the fingers of one hand the number who have left the club amicably on their own terms.
The usual deal is that they get told they're not being offered the contract that they're after and move on soon after, resentful because the manager did not see things as they did.
They are angry for a year or three, maybe even longer. For example, a couple of players from the 1960s refuse to have anything to do with their former life as United players. They don't like football and there's much not to like.
It's an unedifying industry where subjective opinions make or break careers, but while the start of a career is often beautiful like a flower in bloom, the wilting end is not.
For different reasons, Sir Alex Ferguson let Mark Hughes, Paul Ince and Andrei Kanchelskis leave in the summer of 1995. It was a move for which he was castigated, even by his own fans.
All were senior pros, top-level players who all left in indignation, although they were professional enough to limit their frustrations to raised eyebrows or private conversations.
David Moyes faces similar issues. He has to deal with even better players who are on the way out.
Like Rio Ferdinand, whose status was so high last summer that he was one of three or four players Moyes chose to visit in person before taking the freshly wallpapered office -- Ferguson insisted that evidence of his time was cleared away -- at Carrington, United’s training ground.
The end is unlikely to be pretty for Ferdinand at Old Trafford, and he may be unhappy with individuals, if not the entire club. But when the dust has settled, he'll be remembered as probably the greatest defender in United's history. He has been that good.
Nemanja Vidic is another player with whom Moyes sought a meeting; upon taking over as manager, he flew to Serbia to meet the club captain. The relationship between the two could have been better since.
Vidic isn't happy and has known he's been leaving for a while. That news was made public at the curious hour of midnight Thursday.
Fans did not urge him to stay. They can largely see that this moment has been coming, that he is not quite the colossus strong enough to repel an invading army back over the River Drina by himself.
However, Vidic is a club legend, and that's why his song was sung in Sunday's 2-2 draw vs. Fulham, the 13th league game in which the champions have fallen behind this season. Eight of those have ended in defeat.
There are two sides of the story, but Vidic hasn't been the Vidic whom people know around the club. People are often not themselves when they're not happy, though he's still smashing people in tackles in training.
Vidic will not remember his final season at Old Trafford as the happiest in his life. Having said that, no United players will remember this one with much enthusiasm.
He'll leave and will hopefully get the contract he is after and -- though he'll say different publicly -- he too will privately fume at how it all ended.
Like Ferdinand, he'll be remembered as one of the very best defenders -- some would even say he's the best. He has been that good. As the two grow older, they'll remember the good times more than the bad.
Patrice Evra will be the same. United's failure to find an able deputy means that he has put himself through more games than should be realistically expected of any professional player. He's another hero of Moscow, a player who reached the top of his trade and has a European Cup winners' medal to show for it.
Ryan Giggs is another, though the Internet doesn't have enough space to list all his achievements. Taking into account his talent and trophies, his longevity and loyalty, he is the greatest player in Manchester United's history.
Six years on, Moscow seems even further in the past right now, but several players from that team are still around. Not for long, though, for most of them.
Moyes is charged with making the changes and in doing so is coming up against some big names and egos. How they react varies. When the word “mutual” is used, it's like the man who claims that splitting with his girlfriend was mutual. It wasn't -- he was dumped.
The players know they are under contract and have to respect that. So they usually put on their big headphones and escape into their own little world as they contemplate their future while not being outright rude to work colleagues.
Players, who were used to Ferguson and don't like the way it is, largely don’t like the way it is because they have had bad news or it is coming their way.
No player likes to be dropped and they'll find issue with the peripherals, like the manner in which it happens. It's damaging to an ego to be told after years, "you're not needed tomorrow" in front of every player.
To Moyes, he’s being decisive like his predecessor. He's taking a risk and winners take risks. He's given everyone a chance and is now about to make substantial changes.
It's probable that eight to 10 players who were with him at the start of this season won't be with him at the start of next. Furthermore, six to eight players who were not, will be.
Moyes will get money to spend, and it's going to be a busy summer for United. Given the performances this season, it needs to be, though it remains baffling why the form of talented players has dropped so much.
So Moyes is left with a state in flux, where the senior players from whom others (and him) could have taken a lead are on their way out or disaffected.
Moyes has a captain who is going but will remain captain, and he's got other players whom he doesn't consider to be a positive influence around the training ground every single day. Working conditions could be much, much better.
It's not just the senior players, either. There have been run-ins with others who are not happy with the manager. Either they'll grow to respect him or they won't need to as they will not be at United. They'll have their say when they see fit.
Through all this, Moyes has to smile publicly, often with gritted teeth and while pretending that things are far better than they actually are and that there are no issues with players when there are or have been.
Among many other jobs, he is learning to be a public relations man of an institution. It's not easy, but he has so far enjoyed support from the majority of match-going fans.
With the dire results -- three wins and five defeats from nine games so far this year (one of the wins saw elimination from the Capital One Cup) -- the mood is changing among those fans; the staunch support is starting to slip.
United now have four consecutive away games, starting with Arsenal on Wednesday, as well as Liverpool and Manchester City at home before March is over.
The circumstances don't suggest that United will get anything from those games, but fans need something to give them hope.
Was Fulham the darkest hour before dawn or is there worse to come?
With big names set to exit, is the worst to come for Manchester United by Andy Mitten - ESPN FC
Posted by Andy Mitten who is very clued up on what is going on at ManUtd.
Then put that on the players, especially Ferdinand, he should know much better. It's easy to be happy when you're winning. It's when its **** you can see who is ready to stand and be counted. If that's the first thing they do, then even if we do recover, I don't think they should be at the club.
It speaks volumes that Evra and Vidic, whose time is up, respect the club and support the manager, though they probably don't like the way it ends. Whereas Rio makes snide comments, and Zaha and Hernandez post instagrams. Says all the more that the one player with the most to gripe about (rooney) has been the one with the most heat.
We've been saying for a while that the squad needs a rebuild. It's finally happening and people are blaming Moyes for it.
Ferdinand is past it, despite being probably our best ever defender.
Vidic is losing it, best he leaves now on good terms than gets dropped like Rio.
Evra most have been moaning about for a few years. As with Vidic, probably best he leaves now.
Anderson has never fulfilled his potential.
Zaha quite clearly isn't ready for first team football at United. Right decision to loan him out and get him mins.
Hernandez is a born goalscorer, but his overall play is poor. If we get a good offer, he's certainly expendable despite our love for him.
Nani is frustrating. Despite being absolute class on his day, his day comes around very rarely. As with Hernandez, expendable.
Cleverley is a good squad player but not good enough to start at United. Don't have to sell, but definitely need to replace.
On top of those players Carrick is mid 30's, Rooney approaching 30, RVP in his 30's, Giggs 45654 years old. We need to look at rebuilding, not just strengthening long term.
Add to that players like Valencia, Young (despite recent good form), Buttner who just aren't good enough for Manchester United need replacing in the starting eleven and squad.
Moyes has a big job on, but it's a job that's not his fault. Ferguson left the squad. Ferguson knew he had a job on to rebuild again and it would take years and he wasn't up for it with everything going on in his personal life and with his age. He picked a good time to move on, knowing the new manager would be able to rebuild and bring in their own style and players.
Moyes gave everyone a chance to prove themselves. Some have (Januzaj, Evans, Smalling), some haven't (Kagawa, Zaha, Anderson, Fabio).
Now he has to build a squad by removing those he feels aren't good enough for him and bringing those in who will do a job FOR HIM!
Ferdinand is past it, despite being probably our best ever defender.
Vidic is losing it, best he leaves now on good terms than gets dropped like Rio.
Evra most have been moaning about for a few years. As with Vidic, probably best he leaves now.
Anderson has never fulfilled his potential.
Zaha quite clearly isn't ready for first team football at United. Right decision to loan him out and get him mins.
Hernandez is a born goalscorer, but his overall play is poor. If we get a good offer, he's certainly expendable despite our love for him.
Nani is frustrating. Despite being absolute class on his day, his day comes around very rarely. As with Hernandez, expendable.
Cleverley is a good squad player but not good enough to start at United. Don't have to sell, but definitely need to replace.
On top of those players Carrick is mid 30's, Rooney approaching 30, RVP in his 30's, Giggs 45654 years old. We need to look at rebuilding, not just strengthening long term.
Add to that players like Valencia, Young (despite recent good form), Buttner who just aren't good enough for Manchester United need replacing in the starting eleven and squad.
Moyes has a big job on, but it's a job that's not his fault. Ferguson left the squad. Ferguson knew he had a job on to rebuild again and it would take years and he wasn't up for it with everything going on in his personal life and with his age. He picked a good time to move on, knowing the new manager would be able to rebuild and bring in their own style and players.
Moyes gave everyone a chance to prove themselves. Some have (Januzaj, Evans, Smalling), some haven't (Kagawa, Zaha, Anderson, Fabio).
Now he has to build a squad by removing those he feels aren't good enough for him and bringing those in who will do a job FOR HIM!
In times like these you miss players like Gary Neville, Nicky ****, Phil Neville, Giggs, Scholes who never created a single problem to Manager, even if they did they just moved on and played for the club.
I don't blame him for any of this, but that still doesn't excuse the performances at the moment I'm afraid. We should be comfortably beating a second-string Fulham side any day of the week.
What worries me the most is what Moyes is doing at the moment tactically, it's almost like we're getting simpler every single game and therefore getting poorer.
People say this season is a "write-off", that's nonsense. No season can be classed as that for United, every game means something, no matter whether we're in the top or bottom half of the table.
No I'm not blaming Moyes anymore, just saying how I see things right now, we're in a transition is fair to say... but we can't just ignore the glaringly obvious in front of us. When you have Rooney, Mata, RVP and Januzaj all on the same pitch and are still relying on a gazillion of crosses then something isn't right.
I would say Nani would become very good player again if manager just gives him run of games and has confidence in him. Just looking some old games, it was unbelievable to see how good he was. Created so many clear cut chances even when he had poor game.
Also I said few times that Kagawa should do better to deserve place in the team but he wasn't utilized properly at all. But to use him properly we need a strong midfield and a very mobile team.
Somebody been watching the class of '92 and getting nostalgic?
- But in all seriousness, players from that era are gone, the days where players are more interested in playing for a club they love over monetary gain is behind us.. And that goes for everyone, English players included. Sad times.
Tbf, you will notice that the players who make these remarks are often on the fridges of the squad.. They kick the manager when he's down in order to try and secure a move or at the very least to make sure people don't forget about them. It's times like this your players should rally around the manager, but that's modern football for ya.
Never a sadder truth said. That's why have so much respect for all players like those, even the rival ones like Carragher and Gerrard. Funny thing is, Hernandez and Zaha will only make things harder for themselves. Rather than securing a future at the club, all it does is make the gaffer think "do I even want to give him more? Might just ship him out instead"Somebody been watching the class of '92 and getting nostalgic?
- But in all seriousness, players from that era are gone, the days where players are more interested in playing for a club they love over monetary gain is behind us.. And that goes for everyone, English players included. Sad times.
Tbf, you will notice that the players who make these remarks are often on the fridges of the squad.. They kick the manager when he's down in order to try and secure a move or at the very least to make sure people don't forget about them. It's times like this your players should rally around the manager, but that's modern football for ya.
******* notifications. Thanks mate.