The Manchester United Thread

[MANUMAD]

Rene wanted out, he's incredibly ambitious.

Rene has repeatedly said this is not the case. Most recently on the eve of the Fulham match when Moyes said that he wanted to keep him but he wanted out.

Not saying we should believe Rene over Moyes, just that we shouldnt take stuff at face value ...

 

[dasty]

Nani is frustrating. Despite being absolute class on his day, his day comes around very rarely. As with Hernandez, expendable.

This is unfair to Nani. He had been one of our best player since the second half of 09/10 till the end of 11/12. During that period of time he had 20 goals and 40 assists in two and a half season in the league, so his good days isn't as rarely as portrayed. However, after some conflict with the club over his contract during that summer, he had suddenly disappeared from the team, and only managed to get a game or two once in a while. He had not had a consistent run of games for one and a half season now. Any player who experienced that is bound to have their confidence level and match fitness severely damaged.

 

[Mike.]

Rene has repeatedly said this is not the case. Most recently on the eve of the Fulham match when Moyes said that he wanted to keep him but he wanted out.

Not saying we should believe Rene over Moyes, just that we shouldnt take stuff at face value ...

Which I why I take the word of Ogden over both of them, since they both could be trying to save face. Rene left because he wasn't going to get the role he wanted with Moyes. That's not a slight on either by the way

 

[sunilvk7]

Which I why I take the word of Ogden over both of them, since they both could be trying to save face. Rene left because he wasn't going to get the role he wanted with Moyes. That's not a slight on either by the way

I thought it was obvious why Rene left. Rene was in charge of training and played very important role with first team when SAF was in charge, in fact Rene was go to man for Fergie than Phelan but Moyes wanted to be incharge of training which is understandable as he is young (in terms of Manager) so for Rene it was sort of demoted role so he left thinking he could easily get bigger roles and tbh he got when he was assistant for Hiddink.

 

[iNickStuff]

I don't blame him for any of this, but that still doesn't excuse the performances at the moment I'm afraid. We should be comfortably beating a second-string Fulham side any day of the week.

What worries me the most is what Moyes is doing at the moment tactically, it's almost like we're getting simpler every single game and therefore getting poorer.

People say this season is a "write-off", that's nonsense. No season can be classed as that for United, every game means something, no matter whether we're in the top or bottom half of the table.

No I'm not blaming Moyes anymore, just saying how I see things right now, we're in a transition is fair to say... but we can't just ignore the glaringly obvious in front of us. When you have Rooney, Mata, RVP and Januzaj all on the same pitch and are still relying on a gazillion of crosses then something isn't right.

It's hardly nonsense. Yes, the results could be far better, but "no season can be classed as that for United" is irrational.

 

[Vanjagl]

Every time I watch Fraizer Cambell I get impressed with his movement and intelligence. He's still fast but his overall game improved a lot. If we lose Hernandez, I would love to see him back at Old Trafford.

 

[zzeezzy]

It's hardly nonsense. Yes, the results could be far better, but "no season can be classed as that for United" is irrational.

No it isn't at all, 'writing a season off' basically means 'ohhh lets just forget this season'.... it's a silly attitude to have and can lead to dangerous things. Without wanting to go in to the whole Moyes debate, this squad is capable of much better football and where we are currently certainly doesn't show that.

We need to accept that the squad has a lot of talent and should expect more from it. Regardless of any other excuses for Moyes, he needs some good performances soon.

Pretty sure at the start of the season people were not expecting to win anything, suddenly it's changed to not being in top 4 is acceptable and now to being out of Europa League places is acceptable as well.

The expectations can't keep being lowered.

 

[zzeezzy]

Every time I watch Fraizer Cambell I get impressed with his movement and intelligence. He's still fast but his overall game improved a lot. If we lose Hernandez, I would love to see him back at Old Trafford.

We can do much better than Frazier Campbell one would hope.

 

[Tyton]

No it isn't at all, 'writing a season off' basically means 'ohhh lets just forget this season'.... it's a silly attitude to have and can lead to dangerous things. Without wanting to go in to the whole Moyes debate, this squad is capable of much better football and where we are currently certainly doesn't show that.

We need to accept that the squad has a lot of talent and should expect more from it. Regardless of any other excuses for Moyes, he needs some good performances soon.

Pretty sure at the start of the season people were not expecting to win anything, suddenly it's changed to not being in top 4 is acceptable and now to being out of Europa League places is acceptable as well.

The expectations can't keep being lowered.

In all fairness, with Champions League looking very unlikely, missing Europa League as well wouldn't be a big deal...players don't care for it, sponsors don't care for it...playing only in the Prem you could rebuild the squad much more aggresively and unload a lot of the deadwood.

 

[Vanjagl]

We can do much better than Frazier Campbell one would hope.

Yes, we could. But there's probably not many better strikers who would be used as backup and be happy with that role.

 

[zzeezzy]

In all fairness, with Champions League looking very unlikely, missing Europa League as well wouldn't be a big deal...players don't care for it, sponsors don't care for it...playing only in the Prem you could rebuild the squad much more aggresively and unload a lot of the deadwood.

My point is people keep lowering expectations, surely there is a point that comes for any manager where it's just not good enough.... every other club has that, even the likes of Swansea. So how much lower does it go before it's unacceptable? To me were right on the brink of going through that barrier, tomorrow is a huge game.

 

[zzeezzy]

Yes, we could. But there's probably not many better strikers who would be used as backup and be happy with that role.

I wouldn't be sure he would be happy with a backup role tbh...

 

[Mike.]

My point is people keep lowering expectations, surely there is a point that comes for any manager where it's just not good enough.... every other club has that, even the likes of Swansea. So how much lower does it go before it's unacceptable? To me were right on the brink of going through that barrier, tomorrow is a huge game.

It's not about lowering expectations, it's about the bigger picture. Nothing is more important that a rebuild. I care more about the long term future of my club than one poor season.

 

[zzeezzy]

It's not about lowering expectations, it's about the bigger picture. Nothing is more important that a rebuild. I care more about the long term future of my club than one poor season.

Yeh well this season is pretty much 100% failure now. But my concern is going through a rebuild is one thing, if you're going through with the wrong manager it's 10x worse. I really think Moyes is adding to the problems at the moment.

Like you said earlier, he's clearly capable of better tactically but so far it's pretty dire. I still can't accept that when you're facing a bottom table team with RVP, Januzaj, Mata and Rooney you're still so reliant on crosses to a tall defence.

 

[Mike.]

Yeh well this season is pretty much 100% failure now. But my concern is going through a rebuild is one thing, if you're going through with the wrong manager it's 10x worse. I really think Moyes is adding to the problems at the moment.

Like you said earlier, he's clearly capable of better tactically but so far it's pretty dire. I still can't accept that when you're facing a bottom table team with RVP, Januzaj, Mata and Rooney you're still so reliant on crosses to a tall defence.

Don't confuse a lack of panic for people thinking its ok. I think that's where you might have gone wrong with me and Joel. I have ridiculously high standards for us, but I also care much much more about getting things right for the long term. I don't know if Moyes is the right man, but when your target is a major rebuild we need to give him the time to show he is the right man (or not). Tactically he is much better than this, he is also capable of working towards long term plans. he is also capable of being a shield and sustaining a withering amount of criticism for the inevitable pain that comes with such a transition. This is why Ferguson wanted him. He is aiming for the all the right players. Even in the very worst case and he leaves in a year, if he has brought in the right players (and the targets suggest so) then any new manager is already prepped with a rebuilt squad. Right now he is the bad guy many dont want but this club needs. This is why I back Moyes right through into this summer.

 

[zzeezzy]

Don't confuse a lack of panic for people thing its ok. I think that's where you might have gone wrong with me and Joel. I have ridiculously high standards for us, but I also care much much more about getting things right for the long term. I don't know if Moyes is the right man, but when your target is a major rebuild we need to give him the time to show he is the right man (or not). Tactically he is much better than this, he is also capable of working towards long term plab. he is also capable of being a shield and sustaining a withering amount of criticism for the inevitable pain that comes with such a transition. This is why Ferguson wanted him. He is aiming for the all the right players. Even in the very worse case and he leaves in a year, if he has brought in the right players (and the targets suggest so) then any new manager is already prepped with a rebuilt squad. Right now he is the bad guy many dont want but this club needs. This is why I back Moyes right through into this summer.

I think tomorrow against Arsenal is going to be very interesting, it's a must-win for us. The very very very last straw for top 4. I think Liverpool will drop enough points, just.

 

[iNickStuff]

No it isn't at all, 'writing a season off' basically means 'ohhh lets just forget this season'.... it's a silly attitude to have and can lead to dangerous things. Without wanting to go in to the whole Moyes debate, this squad is capable of much better football and where we are currently certainly doesn't show that.

We need to accept that the squad has a lot of talent and should expect more from it. Regardless of any other excuses for Moyes, he needs some good performances soon.

Pretty sure at the start of the season people were not expecting to win anything, suddenly it's changed to not being in top 4 is acceptable and now to being out of Europa League places is acceptable as well.

The expectations can't keep being lowered.

"Dangerous things," please.

And yes, it does mean that, because when you've had a manager who has set the standards higher than any other manager could, then you need to open up to some perspective, and allow the next person to be given at least one write-off. Accepting that the squad needs to better and a new manager weathering one season regardless of how results go -- within logical reasoning -- are two different things. Particularly for this situation.

And yes they can. Things change, people change, eras change. When one plan doesn't work, you need a backup. Moyes has a plan and he will put it in place. Now it's just a matter of time before he can actually implement it.

 

[sunilvk7]

Every time I watch Fraizer Cambell I get impressed with his movement and intelligence. He's still fast but his overall game improved a lot. If we lose Hernandez, I would love to see him back at Old Trafford.

We have Welbeck as 3rd choice striker and we are all hoping we somehow play Kagawa so signing one more striker wouldn't make sense even if Hernandez leaves and also we have Angelo Henriquez who is out on loan and also Will Keane who is highly rated.

 

[andrichbrand]

We have Welbeck as 3rd choice striker and we are all hoping we somehow play Kagawa so signing one more striker wouldn't make sense even if Hernandez leaves and also we have Angelo Henriquez who is out on loan and also Will Keane who is highly rated.

Angelo Henriquez got 4 goals in 5 games and looks like a bright prospect for us. He just need more playing time - give him another year on loan and then work him into the team.

 

[andrichbrand]

this really gets to me: Premier League: David Moyes sticking to principles as Manchester United prepare to face Arsenal | Football News | Sky Sports

Moyes: "There have been a few twists this season; hopefully we'll get them our way in the future. You just continue doing the right things. Keep going and your luck will change, there's no doubt about that."

It gets to me, because they are not doing the right things, not playing the football that we should be playing and IT IS NOT THE PLAYERS, IT THE TACTICS. Having a Plan A, Plan B, Plan C and even if push comes to shove a Plan D. Lately it is just a Plan C - Crossing.

Hopefully they watched the game tape of the Ars vs Liv game and come away with a BIG needed won tonight.

That is my ******** done for the day.