The Manchester United Thread

Come on Dunc why you gotta be a hater :'(
So you get sent off for leaving the ground with 2 feet, with no intention of harming the player and eyes firmly on the ball, and are sent off because it's a dangerous challenge that could harm the player. Why is Nani studding someone in the chest, albeit unintentionally, and potentially seriously injuring the player suddenly maybe a yellow and certainly a harsh red?

If you go into a tackle with 2 feet then there is intent. When you are looking the other way trying to bring a ball down out of the air, unaware someone is coming charging into you, there is no intent. There is the difference. There wasn't a challenge by Nani, the challenge was from Arbeloa. He was the player that could see what was happening, and in a sense he ran directly into Nani, in an attempt to win the ball. There have been countless times players have been kicked/knocked in the head/ribs/chest from players trying to play over head kicks, clearing the ball or two players going for the same header. If a player now wins a header and clatters into the next guy causing him a head injury, does he get sent off? If a keeper comes out for a corner, like last night, misses the ball and punches the header of the ball in the face, should he be sent off? If a player tries to score a scissor kick and someone heads the ball away and they end up kicking them in the face, like Crouch on the weekend, should he be sent off?

For all of the above, I would say no. There is no intent to cause the opposing player injury, the move made by the 'offending' player isn't made in an aggressive manner looking to harm the other player, generally it's the unpredictable nature of the other player that causes these incidents to happen. All that's happening is that the game will become a none contact sport. There is more malicious intent in any tackle than there is in the aforementioned scenarios.
 
If you go into a tackle with 2 feet then there is intent. When you are looking the other way trying to bring a ball down out of the air, unaware someone is coming charging into you, there is no intent. There is the difference. There wasn't a challenge by Nani, the challenge was from Arbeloa. He was the player that could see what was happening, and in a sense he ran directly into Nani, in an attempt to win the ball. There have been countless times players have been kicked/knocked in the head/ribs/chest from players trying to play over head kicks, clearing the ball or two players going for the same header. If a player now wins a header and clatters into the next guy causing him a head injury, does he get sent off? If a keeper comes out for a corner, like last night, misses the ball and punches the header of the ball in the face, should he be sent off? If a player tries to score a scissor kick and someone heads the ball away and they end up kicking them in the face, like Crouch on the weekend, should he be sent off?

For all of the above, I would say no. There is no intent to cause the opposing player injury, the move made by the 'offending' player isn't made in an aggressive manner looking to harm the other player, generally it's the unpredictable nature of the other player that causes these incidents to happen. All that's happening is that the game will become a none contact sport. There is more malicious intent in any tackle than there is in the aforementioned scenarios.


ok after much debate with various members, who's opinions I respect and most of the time agree with, and pointless comments from members who probably shouldn't post, I agree it was perhaps a harsh red card. Nani misinterpreted the situation he was in and perhaps thought he had more time than he actually did. He didn't put himself in a great position and the whole thing could have been avoided. But yes he was very unlucky and United unlucky to crash out, although it wasn't all because of the sending off. Real upped their game, united tired (both probably partly because of the sending off) but Modric helped change the game and scored a great goal which winded United.
 
He had a proper rant about Fletcher.

Yeah. Legend of a player but **** of a man. Still bitter about what happened in 2005.

Paddy Crerand with little gem: "Does Keane want to be noticed?Or is he envious or jealous?Has he got the needle with United because of what happened to him here?" I played for Manchester United. I played in a European Cup final. Roy didn’t
 
If you go into a tackle with 2 feet then there is intent. When you are looking the other way trying to bring a ball down out of the air, unaware someone is coming charging into you, there is no intent. There is the difference. There wasn't a challenge by Nani, the challenge was from Arbeloa. He was the player that could see what was happening, and in a sense he ran directly into Nani, in an attempt to win the ball. There have been countless times players have been kicked/knocked in the head/ribs/chest from players trying to play over head kicks, clearing the ball or two players going for the same header. If a player now wins a header and clatters into the next guy causing him a head injury, does he get sent off? If a keeper comes out for a corner, like last night, misses the ball and punches the header of the ball in the face, should he be sent off? If a player tries to score a scissor kick and someone heads the ball away and they end up kicking them in the face, like Crouch on the weekend, should he be sent off?

For all of the above, I would say no. There is no intent to cause the opposing player injury, the move made by the 'offending' player isn't made in an aggressive manner looking to harm the other player, generally it's the unpredictable nature of the other player that causes these incidents to happen. All that's happening is that the game will become a none contact sport. There is more malicious intent in any tackle than there is in the aforementioned scenarios.

Completely agree, plus on Sky Sports today they were showing the laws and it says a TACKLE deemed to be dangerous is serious foul play. At what point is Nani attempting to tackle Arbeloa?

He wasn't.
 
Looking back on the decision i can sort of see why the ref sent him off if all he was looking at was nani's foot. As questionable as the decision was i kind of remember i think it was Eboue getting sent off for the same sort of thing against Utd and Fergie agreed it was a red. I also remember Torres doing similar on Cleverley earlier in the season and there was complaints about that too, seems to think its a different matter when its against Utd sometimes? I won't even go there with the media! Utd players surround the ref and its justified but when we did it back in 09 vs Barca its shocking (minus the drogba thing because that was OTT).
 
Looking back on the decision i can sort of see why the ref sent him off if all he was looking at was nani's foot. As questionable as the decision was i kind of remember i think it was Eboue getting sent off for the same sort of thing against Utd and Fergie agreed it was a red. I also remember Torres doing similar on Cleverley earlier in the season and there was complaints about that too, seems to think its a different matter when its against Utd sometimes? I won't even go there with the media! Utd players surround the ref and its justified but when we did it back in 09 vs Barca its shocking (minus the drogba thing because that was OTT).

Torres got a yellow though. Don't think anyone would have argued that.
 
Looking back on the decision i can sort of see why the ref sent him off if all he was looking at was nani's foot. As questionable as the decision was i kind of remember i think it was Eboue getting sent off for the same sort of thing against Utd and Fergie agreed it was a red. I also remember Torres doing similar on Cleverley earlier in the season and there was complaints about that too, seems to think its a different matter when its against Utd sometimes? I won't even go there with the media! Utd players surround the ref and its justified but when we did it back in 09 vs Barca its shocking (minus the drogba thing because that was OTT).

You mean this one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH5t58FCs3k
Who in the world jumps into a header with their leg positioned that way. Not even close to the Nani incident.
 
Torres got a yellow though. Don't think anyone would have argued that.

Oh yeah i agreed with the yellow and would have agreed with a yellow last night. My point is that at the time many argued it was a straight red even fergie if i am not mistaken.
 
Wonder how many people who have said it was a deserved red (not just on here, in general) thought it during the minute it took or whatever it was for him to produce it. No one in the stadium expected it, not one Madrid player was even paying attention (and we all know they love a moan at the ref). Nani's good enough to take that ball down and start a potentially promising counter, if he just stopped and made no effort everyone would be on his back. He got sent off because some pencil-pushing bureaucrats who've never kicked a ball in their life left the rulebook open to the referee to interpret it as he likes; all it takes is a little common sense to produce a yellow and let a cracking tie go on.
 
Even if it wasn't a red and was harsh the Utd players should have the experience to not be effected by it and not let it ruin their game plan which was working brilliantly. It will probably effect a different club next season as Nani may be off surely and he will miss their how ever many games Uefa decide to ban him for.
 
Even if it wasn't a red and was harsh the Utd players should have the experience to not be effected by it and not let it ruin their game plan which was working brilliantly. It will probably effect a different club next season as Nani may be off surely and he will miss their how ever many games Uefa decide to ban him for.

It exposed the space that Madrid needed to get back into the game. I'd have brought Rooney on for RVP, and told him to play where Nani had been, but also burst into the box. But easy to say in hindsight.
 
One thing a lot of you are forgetting is that the ref didn't get to see replays and different angles. From his angle and the speed of play all he saw was Nani studing Arbeola in the chest. I believe football should introduce TMO just like rugby for similar instances. That should have been a yellow but it was a harsh (but justifiable) red card IMO. And when I first saw the incident I thought it was.a red as all I saw in the speed of things was what the ref saw. And whilst I wanted manutd to win I understand the referees pov.
 
One thing a lot of you are forgetting is that the ref didn't get to see replays and different angles. From his angle and the speed of play all he saw was Nani studing Arbeola in the chest. I believe football should introduce TMO just like rugby for similar instances. That should have been a yellow but it was a harsh (but justifiable) red card IMO. And when I first saw the incident I thought it was.a red as all I saw in the speed of things was what the ref saw. And whilst I wanted manutd to win I understand the referees pov.

He wouldnt have seen nani stud him in the chest as that isnt what happened. Most people saw it in real time and still didnt think it was a red.
 
It exposed the space that Madrid needed to get back into the game. I'd have brought Rooney on for RVP, and told him to play where Nani had been, but also burst into the box. But easy to say in hindsight.

Yeah this is exactly what i said too mate, think Rooney offers far more defensively. I think you done well nulling the Alonso threat but just forgot how effective Modric could be when he came on.
 
It exposed the space that Madrid needed to get back into the game.

Well, i'd say it mostly exposed the fact that United are rather awful defensively this entire season. SAF really went all-in on the offense with summer transfers. It paid off in the league, but it had to backfire at some point. Cant hope to defend with 10 man against team like Madrid without proper holding midfielder in the squad.
 
Well, i'd say it mostly exposed the fact that United are rather awful defensively this entire season. SAF really went all-in on the offense with summer transfers. It paid off in the league, but it had to backfire at some point. Cant hope to defend with 10 man against team like Madrid without proper holding midfielder in the squad.

Except it didn't back fire at all 11 vs 11. In fact it was spot on. In fact it didnt backfire at all in this game.
Our defensive issues actually came about because of the lack of defensive stability. Up until the start of the year, we pretty much never got our favoured back line. At the end of january, after 65 games, De Gea had played with the 1st choice back line just 3 times.
Sure we'd definitely like a defensive mid for sure, but it certainly wasnt the issue in this game
 
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Yeah this is exactly what i said too mate, think Rooney offers far more defensively. I think you done well nulling the Alonso threat but just forgot how effective Modric could be when he came on.

Both managers did well tactically, SAF the right up to the sending off, then Jose immediately after. His movement was killer. Goal and an assist.
 
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