The Manchester United Thread

[zzeezzy]

Mate, this is Leicester City we're talking about. Who do you realistically think of any note would go there? It's been a fairytale season, and all the credit in the World to them. Ranieri's taken an average bunch of pro's, added a couple of very good players into the mix, found a way of playing that suits them; and the belief and hard work has paid off as every last one of them has played above themselves to fantastic results this year. Along with everyone else being as erratically inconsistent as ever. Just one of those brilliant seasons that happens once a blue moon.

But Leicester becoming a 'real force?' When was the last time anyone so much as finished in the top 4 outside of Arsenal, Chelsea, L'pool, Utd or City? Everton in 2005? Newcastle under Keegan before that? Even Blackburn couldn't sustain it with all their riches. Because they're Blackburn. And Leicester are Leicester. Just not an attractive proposition.

Be great to think they could sustain it and keep on upsetting the applecart but the chances are it's just one miraculous season when everything fell into place.

Manchester City was Manchester City before the money from the arabs started to be splashed it brought a lot of top players.

Plus when you win a title, people take notice, it's a huge attraction and when you have money to offer as well, players will definitely go to Leicester.

Players had no reason to go to City other than for money at the start of their rise from the arabs.

 

[Mike.]

Fun fact answer: Klopp didn't actually change too much second half fundamentally (infact his one fundamental change was in 2013, when he added a more possession based way to gegenpressing). What he did was find a way to get them to work much harder (covering more ground again), which largely paid off, though they were once again torn apart by wolfsburg in the final, who were brutally clinical again dortmund's all out press. There is a reason why Klopp is a motivator, his game style is very much a mental/physical drain on the players, particularly the CD CM quartet

 

[Mike.]

We'd have the magic of Mahrez to get us a goal, just like against Watford. |)

Touche. But your light hearted reply touches a key point. The players look like they need a mental refreshment, it's not suprise that the younger players are doing well, they are playing on instinct, not drilled down. to beat no space, quick passing must be instinctive.

 

[zzeezzy]

Touche. But your light hearted reply touches a key point. The players look like they need a mental refreshment, it's not suprise that the younger players are doing well, they are playing on instinct, not drilled down. to beat no space, quick passing must be instinctive.

Yeh, exactly, someone else pointed this out and it's spot on.

 

[ninjaskill]

Manchester City was Manchester City before the money from the arabs started to be splashed it brought a lot of top players.

Plus when you win a title, people take notice, it's a huge attraction and when you have money to offer as well, players will definitely go to Leicester.

Players had no reason to go to City other than for money at the start of their rise from the arabs.

Throw in Champions League Group stage where they would be the first seed so a decent chance of getting through they could attract some very good players especially as billionaires own them and they would be getting tv money to spend

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Fun fact answer: Klopp didn't actually change too much second half fundamentally (infact his one fundamental change was in 2013, when he added a more possession based way to gegenpressing). What he did was find a way to get them to work much harder (covering more ground again), which largely paid off, though they were once again torn apart by wolfsburg in the final, who were brutally clinical again dortmund's all out press. There is a reason why Klopp is a motivator, his game style is very much a mental/physical drain on the players, particularly the CD CM quartet

He didn't change and tweak the formation from what had been his base right through that last year down to the personnel he'd been left with after injuries and departures? I wouldn't know first hand not being a Dortmund follower, but I remember reading and seeing an excellent analysis of that final year to his others I'm trying to dig out.

 

[Mike.]

Yeh, exactly, someone else pointed this out and it's spot on.

That's why I want him to go. It's not about where we finish. The players need a change of enviroment. I actually think for the type of people they are, Jose suits that extremely well, as long as he doesn't hit his extremes. But he's not a fool as I say

 

[Mike.]

He didn't change and tweak the formation from what had been his base right through that last year down to the personnel he'd been left with after injuries and departures? I wouldn't know first hand not being a Dortmund follower, but I remember reading and seeing an excellent analysis of that final year to his others I'm trying to dig out.

No more than he has done over the last 6 years. There wasn't a fundamental tactical shift. There was tweaking as you would expect, but a lot of it simply came down to getting the players to mentally respond, If you are half hearted in the press, you will get beat by the direct counter.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Throw in Champions League Group stage where they would be the first seed so a decent chance of getting through they could attract some very good players especially as billionaires own them and they would be getting tv money to spend

Be interesting to see how this develops or not. I tend to side with the added burden of European football being the killer to their season next year and Leicester having as much likelihood as being down the bottom end as sustaining it the top but you and zz may be right and the opposite will happen.

Be interesting to see how it unfolds after this miraculous year.

 

[ninjaskill]

Be interesting to see how this develops or not. I tend to side with the added burden of European football being the killer to their season next year and Leicester having as much likelihood as being down the bottom end as sustaining it the top but you and zz may be right and the opposite will happen.

Be interesting to see how it unfolds after this miraculous year.

It may but, it is a good attraction for players that could help them stay at a similar level and the impact on sides in Europe is split it hurts some and helps others.

They would need a bigger squad and a bit more rotation than they have currently have but, they have a decent shot of doing well if they do well in the transfer market

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Manchester City was Manchester City before the money from the arabs started to be splashed it brought a lot of top players.....

..... Players had no reason to go to City other than for money at the start of their rise from the arabs.

Just as a general point, aside from the differing status of both clubs traditionally .....

As much as it pains me to say this, Manchester is a fantastic City, with some very attractive outlaying areas if you're wealthy. We have in the North West two City's that offer absolutely everything you could wish for from a major, modern City that are both on at least a parallel in many ways to a lot of what London has to offer.

You don't have to sell Manchester and Liverpool.

Leicester and the East Midlands on the other hand is a completely different proposition.

 

[Subtle]

I sometimes wonder if I'm the only one who remembers Dortmund struggling immensely for ages under Klopp due to fatigue. Not that they weren't successful, but the players always looked absolutely exhausted when they were trying to fight for Europe and the league at the same time.

Not only that but once teams started to just cede possession vs them, they seriously suffered. It took Klopp a fair amount of time to adapt to it, and even then they were never really convincing. He basically tweaked his existing system as much as he could to fight the problem but it was still there.

Neither of those are damning, but he is very much a manager who favours a certain approach and he has to be at a club where that approach is useful. It's why he's well suited to a tier 2 club like Liverpool and why he is the last thing United need right now if they want to hang onto their status as a tier 1. It's also why taking Mourinho on will either work out spectacularly for them or be terrible. If he is as dogmatic and stubborn as he was with us, then they're ******. If the Jose of old turns up though, pragmatic and willing to do what it takes to win, expect them to be an absolute force again.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

They still have a 'tier 1' status?

Huh? Who knew?

 

[Subtle]

They still have a 'tier 1' status?

Huh? Who knew?

They still have vast financial power and a serious appeal to players. The whole reason there's such panic around the club at the moment is because the allure is fading and they realistically have another season at most before their fall from grace becomes more than just a slip up in the grand scheme of things.

Tier 1.25/1.5 is probably more accurate although their Ferguson reputation is still so great that they can reliably compete with the rest of the tier 1 clubs for players/sponsorship.

Put it this way, Spurs and United both go in for the same player. Who is more likely to get him?

 

[Mike.]

They still have vast financial power and a serious appeal to players. The whole reason there's such panic around the club at the moment is because the allure is fading and they realistically have another season at most before their fall from grace becomes more than just a slip up in the grand scheme of things.

Tier 1.25/1.5 is probably more accurate although their Ferguson reputation is still so great that they can reliably compete with the rest of the tier 1 clubs for players/sponsorship.

Put it this way, Spurs and United both go in for the same player. Who is more likely to get him?

The question is when the bid is put in. Right now? Spurs, but thats because no one expects LVG to be the manager.

If Jose is managing, then United.

What United need to do is remove the managerial flux that currently exists. Even if it was LVG it would still be better than being unsure. A decision needs to be made either way

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

United more often than not obviously. But on the pitch, they've no stronger a squad than Tottenham at present. Stature of club there's obviously no comparison. And as you noted, from a financial standpoint, and ability to attract investment, it's a non discussion and will be for a good whiles. But right here, right now, there's not much difference in the two from a football standpoint.

That 'appeal' is slipping by the passing season as you noted. The longer you're away from winning trophies and the Champions league (in effect three straight years on both as they crashed out the group the one year they've been back in); the less attractive you become.

Utd are currently little different to what we are on the park. Both with a lot of work to do to get anywhere near back to were both clubs where.

Flip that question to Utd and Liverpool go in for the same player. Who is more likely to get him?

That is no longer anywhere near as clear cut as this time last year and that gaps shortening all the time.

 

[Mike.]

It's between both worlds really in March. But come the summer, United will almost invariably win that race.

 

[Tyton]

Yeah, nobody wants to sign for the club where manager is on the brink. Might be the real reason why there weren't any signings in the winter, when LVG seemed dead in the water.

 

[Mike.]

Yeah, nobody wants to sign for the club where manager is on the brink. Might be the real reason why there weren't any signings in the winter, when LVG seemed dead in the water.

That was exactly the reason United missed out. not because of where they are, but because they (Ricardo Rodriguez being one) didnt know who would be there in the summer.

 

[Tyton]

. It's also why taking Mourinho on will either work out spectacularly for them or be terrible. If he is as dogmatic and stubborn as he was with us, then they're ******. If the Jose of old turns up though, pragmatic and willing to do what it takes to win, expect them to be an absolute force again.

If Jose doesn't land his dream job he can only blame himself really. If he didn't keep behaving like a **** and reignite United's board old worries, he probably would've be in the job already instead of Van Gaal.

The Carneiro thing in particular is still hanging over him and keeps coming back in the media. If he has any brains left he should man up and apologize.