The Manchester United Thread

[damola3]

Sounesses Utd Pool combined 11 is funny as!

The 11 is mostly accurate but I'd have Rojo over Lovren. Dafaq is Henderson doing There? Pogba has been twice the player this season! Has he gone braindead? Juan Mata is a joke on the list. I can understand the lack of Mané due to ACON but Mhkitaryan is twice the player.

 

[damola3]

I forgot to say that all forward players barring Martial saw attacking output tank by like 25% or something like that for reasons stated above. Shot volumes, dribbles etc from all fowards tanked. Depay especially struggled and he deserves another chance imo.

 

[Legend Incredible]

Van Gaal is one of the greatest coaches ever. You don't manage Ajax, Barcelona, Bayern and Manchester United for nothing! His system would fit the current squad better. The reason for the **** football was a general result of shocking recruitment. His philosophy was based upon Juego de Posicion (positional play). Some of the passing from the back was unreal. There were 3 big factors to his failure and the boring football:

1) The players weren't good enough. Whether Blind/Carrick was the pivot, you were over reliant on them in the first phase. Teams would just man mark the deep pivot and easily shadow your CMs as a result. Your central defenders other than Rojo had no verticality in their passing within the first phase. Jones/Smalling are poor on the ball. When Blind played there, strikers prevented him from passing vertically and redirected play to wide areas where it's easy for the defending team to force a turnover. The biggest hole was in central midfield. None of your midfield interiors were good enough. Herrera was the most ok out of the lot. None of them were comfortable with receiving deep. None of them were good ball carriers nor press resistant. They also lacked verticality. Pogba is the only United midfielder that fits the bill now. The reality is that your midfield wasn't good enough. Even now, take Pogba or Carrick out of the 3 and United are screwed. Herrera isn't good enough. He's a box to box destroyer who's tidy on the ball and happens to be good at counterpressing. Nothing in the final third and can't carry the ball.

2) Finding the right system was difficult given the lack of quality. The 4-3-3 is the best formation known to world football in terms of balance. Triangles can easily be created in every area of the pitch which is vital for beating shadows. It means that it's easy to overload any area of the pitch given the relative closeness of each individual within the field. It also allows all spaces to be covered making it hard for the opponent to overload. Given that it didn't work, Van Gaal tried the 3-4-3. Chelsea have tried this recently because Kanté isn't good enough to play as a lone pivot. The main advantage is that it allows for easy triangles to be made and it allows more spaces to be covered at the back. The 2 wide central defenders cover wide spaces, creating new angles while there's always a free man in the centre. United's buildup was even worse in the first phase because of Jones and Smalling. It did lead to the discovery of Valencia as wing back who would have shined in Van Gaal's system with more quality around him. Given the difficulty of adapting the squad to his system, he was constantly chopping and changing. The strong man oriented pressing scheme made it difficult for United to transition to attack. It wasn't organised in such a way to make it easy. It's difficult to do that and retain positional structure at the same times. Better sides can use individual quality to transition to attack, however United didn't have enough. This is why the ball was moved so slowly after winning the ball. The man oriented press led to a few bad results e.g. Losing 0-3 at Arsenal. Against teams which have virtually no positional structure (pretty much Arsenal) man oriented presses struggle with good off the ball movement,positions, fluidity and press resistance. This is why Arsene struggles vs Mourinho/Koeman. Zone oriented presses aren't as easily pulled apart by these factors. They perfectly retain shape. Van Gaal's complex system based on positional play requires many hours of coaching to implement. Very few managers can do it. Successful ones of note are Pep Guardiola, Marcelo Bielsa, Mourizio Sarri, Thomas Tuchel and Juergen Klopp. This is why Guardiola is the best in the world.

3) Poor recruitment was the fundamental reason to his failure. The players signed didn't necessarily fit the system. The wide fowards and creators (Di Maria, Martial etc) were perfect. A main problem were his strikers (shouldn't have sold Hernandez), his central midfielders and central defenders. Schweinstiger was a good snip and could rotate with Carrick in the pivot. Smalling and Jones aren't good enough with the ball and will never be. Bailly is young enough to be taught. United should have signed players like Umtiti/Mustafi, Hysaj, Raphael Guerreiro, Naby Keita, Granit Xhaka, Mahmoud Dahoud and Mateo Kovacivc. You missed out big.

LVG was given £250 million to spend in 2 years with no pressure to sell the players that were already in place. You'd think that he'd get the top quality players he wanted with all that mula.

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[wkdsoul]

LVG was given £250 million to spend in 2 years with no pressure to sell the players that were already in place. You'd think that he'd get the top quality players he wanted with all that mula.

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One of the greatest coaches, just coudn't find a system for the players he had, or buy the players he needed for the system he wanted.

 

[damola3]

LVG was given £250 million to spend in 2 years with no pressure to sell the players that were already in place. You'd think that he'd get the top quality players he wanted with all that mula.

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That was the main weakness. He would have had less issues tactically if he'd bought better. Mhitaryan, Pogba and Zlatan are all elite quality of the standard required. Bailly was ok. Mourinho favouring quality over quantity. United are halfway there. You need an elite central defender, an elite right back, maybe a left back, a central midfielder and a deep pivot. At least starting 11 wise, that would make you elite again.

 

[damola3]

One of the greatest coaches, just coudn't find a system for the players he had, or buy the players he needed for the system he wanted.

Recruitment for United has been a shitshow in recent years. Good thing Mourinho is restoring order.

 

[Anthony]

Recruitment for United has been a shitshow in recent years. Good thing Mourinho is restoring order.

I've a good mate who is a lifelong Liverpool fan and He told me this week over a pint that He doesn't like where this is going (regarding United).

He's like myself... If He see's a rival doing well and building something, He will acknowledge it and not sit around talking ***** like a ten year old.

 

[Tyton]

As **** as LVGs football was, he simply lacked elite attacking talent.

 

[damola3]

I've a good mate who is a lifelong Liverpool fan and He told me this week over a pint that He doesn't like where this is going (regarding United).

He's like myself... If He see's a rival doing well and building something, He will acknowledge it and not sit around talking ***** like a ten year old.

No need to worry. In the next year or two, United, City and Arsenal (new manager) will pull away. Already read in I think that the Times that Mou wants 6 elite talents in the next 2 windows. City will probably rebuild in the summer as well. We'll probably do the same under a new manager. Klopp is one of the 2 elite managers in the league. Given the lack of talent in his squad, his recruitment will need to be really good to take Liverpool to the next level.

 

[damola3]

As **** as LVGs football was, he simply lacked elite attacking talent.

Van Gaal did pretty well with what he had from a coaching point of view. From a managerial point of view, it wasn't good enough. He would been better off with a smart committee sorting out recruitment.

 

[ninjaskill]

Van Gaal is one of the greatest coaches ever. You don't manage Ajax, Barcelona, Bayern and Manchester United for nothing! His system would fit the current squad better. The reason for the **** football was a general result of shocking recruitment. His philosophy was based upon Juego de Posicion (positional play). Some of the passing from the back was unreal. There were 3 big factors to his failure and the boring football:

3) Poor recruitment was the fundamental reason to his failure. The players signed didn't necessarily fit the system. The wide fowards and creators (Di Maria, Martial etc) were perfect. A main problem were his strikers (shouldn't have sold Hernandez), his central midfielders and central defenders. Schweinstiger was a good snip and could rotate with Carrick in the pivot. Smalling and Jones aren't good enough with the ball and will never be. Bailly is young enough to be taught. United should have signed players like Umtiti/Mustafi, Hysaj, Raphael Guerreiro, Naby Keita, Granit Xhaka, Mahmoud Dahoud and Mateo Kovacivc. You missed out big.

The first bolded bit is the big issue I doubt we would have got Ibra without Mourinho and don't know if Pogba would have been willing to leave Juve with a league title likely and the squad for a good CL run if LVG was still in charge. It's reported that he was put off of signing Mkhitaryan so it seems unlikely that he would have arrived which just leaves Bailly who I think would have moved if United had an interest with Van Gaal in charge.

The second bolded bit you can't have a good team when you have issues at centre back, centre mid and striker and he either failed to fix them or failed to see the issue there. The reason that we have improved under Mourinho is that he new that and set about rebuilding the spine of the side by signing a centre back central midfielder and striker

 

[damola3]

The first bolded bit is the big issue I doubt we would have got Ibra without Mourinho and don't know if Pogba would have been willing to leave Juve with a league title likely and the squad for a good CL run if LVG was still in charge. It's reported that he was put off of signing Mkhitaryan so it seems unlikely that he would have arrived which just leaves Bailly who I think would have moved if United had an interest with Van Gaal in charge.

The second bolded bit you can't have a good team when you have issues at centre back, centre mid and striker and he either failed to fix them or failed to see the issue there. The reason that we have improved under Mourinho is that he new that and set about rebuilding the spine of the side by signing a centre back central midfielder and striker

I fully agree. You have to consider the players Mourinho has attracted as a whole. There are a lot of managers out there that can't recruit. Luis Enrique is slowly dismantling Barcelona, Chelsea have been as wasteful as usual and Pochettino couldn't tell the difference between a forward and a horse.

 

[Theatre of dreams]

No need to worry. In the next year or two, United, City and Arsenal (new manager) will pull away. Already read in I think that the Times that Mou wants 6 elite talents in the next 2 windows. City will probably rebuild in the summer as well. We'll probably do the same under a new manager. Klopp is one of the 2 elite managers in the league. Given the lack of talent in his squad, his recruitment will need to be really good to take Liverpool to the next level.

Yeah think they were Griezmann, Saul, Bakayoko, Semedo, Linderlof can't remember the last.

 

[damola3]

Yeah think they were Griezmann, Saul, Bakayoko, Semedo, Linderlof can't remember the last.

Jose plots £145m raid on Atletico | Sport | The Times & The Sunday Times

 

[Tyton]

I'd imagine LVG just left those last bits of recruitment for his expected 3rd season, which he never got to manage. Nobody really expected him to win the title until the 3rd year, this isn't FM, you can't just rebuild entire team within 1 season.

 

[Legend Incredible]

That was the main weakness. He would have had less issues tactically if he'd bought better. Mhitaryan, Pogba and Zlatan are all elite quality of the standard required. Bailly was ok. Mourinho favouring quality over quantity. United are halfway there. You need an elite central defender, an elite right back, maybe a left back, a central midfielder and a deep pivot. At least starting 11 wise, that would make you elite again.

What about herrera? We don't need one plus I have high hopes about fosu mensah filling herrera's role in the near future. While trying to be elite again, let's not forget about our core values.

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[damola3]

What about herrera? We don't need one plus I have high hopes about fosu mensah filling herrera's role in the near future. While trying to be elite again, let's not forget about our core values.

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Hererra isn't good enough if United want to be elite. He shouldn't be near the first team. At best a 4th choice CM. Offers nothing in the final third and he's limited in the first phase. Good to include young talent but the reality is that some aren't good enough. Rashford is good and Jesse Lingard is one of the most unique English talents in recent years. Fosu-Mensah may become a fine versatile backup.

 

[Anthony]

While trying to be elite again, let's not forget about our core values.

I'm getting a bit sick of that nonsense to be straight.
"Not the Man Utd way", "Core values"..

The same core values that have seen us horse through the competition in Europe every single year on our way to another inevitable trophy??

No??
Exactly!!

Everything evolves, including football teams.

There is far too much "In't old days" going on in the UK.

 

[damola3]

I'm getting a bit sick of that nonsense to be straight.
"Not the Man Utd way", "Core values"..

The same core values that have seen us horse through the competition in Europe every single year on our way to another inevitable trophy??

No??
Exactly!!

Everything evolves, including football teams.

There is far too much "In't old days" going on in the UK.

You have to be ruthless and ship out players that aren't good enough. Every team has at least that one player who's liked but not good enough.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Reading you on here damola and your obsession with 'elite' the majority of your posts, remind me to never play a game of footie manager with you.

You must have the most expensive squad going.