The Manchester United Thread

[Theatre of Dreams83]

True but he wasn't there and someone else (maybe the captain Kane) should have been keeping an eye on them.

Maybe. But he’s not exactly the authoritive type to me and the rest of the squad is mostly filled with young inexperienced int players.

 

[Vanjagl]

I thought I wasn't worth the time?

But as you asked, how far removed was that from what Klopp inherited again and just where the club had fallen to?

I'll defend Rogers all day as I've never got the mad hate that exists for him with a lot of Reds given, before Klopp, he came the closest to winning the league in the PL era and he's never said anything derogatory about the club since he left. But13/14 was a complete anomaly through his time here underpinned by Suarez having a Worldie season along with Sturridge and £terling roaming free. With Henderson making it all possible with his tireless intelligence behind. If anything, he cost us the title with his complete inability to organise a defence. As historical as the attack was, the defence was the same in the wrong way conceding 50 goals.

The following season we fell off a cliff and barely made the Europa League spots in a terrible campaign that culminated in a 6-1 final day defeat at Stoke when he should have resigned there and then. Which just rolled onto the next season with L'pool down in 10th place when he was finally sacked. Having won just three of 12 games and just a few weeks before, with a full-strength side out, struggled past League Two Carlisle on penalties after a 1-1 draw. At home! With the infighting in the crowd getting to levels not seen since the H&G carnage.

THAT's how bad things were when he left. A P poor squad going absolutely nowhere but downwards.

Jurgen walked into one of the worst situations any L'pool manager has since Shankly in the arl second division back in 1959.

So no dear. Brendan has had next to nottin to do with what we now are.

As noted, you started out with revisionist history and it just devolved into complete bunkum from there.

I won't claim I know the situation at Liverpool better than you, but from my perspective Rodgers did lay better foundation for Klopp than Mourinho for Solskjaer. Klopps now 5 season at Liverpool? How many players is he using regularly that Rodgers brought in?
That season probably pressured Brendan and it backfired. Also, if Suarez was a bit smarter, Liverpool would have won the title and Rodgers would be hero for eternity.

Picture this - you somehow finish 2nd and win Europa League with terrible football and squad thats falling apart, only to lose to your biggest rivals and point wise be closer to relegation than to the rivals you just lost to. Falling out with just everyone in the club and almost losing 3 key players because they are not "mentally tough" for being constant scapegoats from their own manager, both private and in media.

 

[Bujakaa92]

His parents more so his farther will be very disappointed. They are very protective over him and his career and influences in football. Hence why they won’t sign him to an agency and do it themselves. His farther gave up a lot in his own life to make sure Greenwood would make the most of his talent and has been strict with regards to his schooling and grades. Pretty sure it will be a one off.

Dont want to be disrespectful etc, but as football world has shown there are more reasons fathers stay as agents...



I am tad on the side that Klopp got better side to make push where they are now. Firmino and lets face it Couthino was pivotal combining with his starting performance and the money it got you.
But on the other side as everywhere is calling out, United has the cash to get things done, so this should level the playing ground. But that **** Woody you have in the board is a cancer. There are definetly pieces that Jose left that have benefited Ole also.

Anyhow I think both sides had + and - they inherited. And now this is the season for Ole to show his worth and if the move is in right direction. After this season I think somekind of comparison is more valid.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

I won't claim I know the situation at Liverpool better than you, but from my perspective Rodgers did lay better foundation for Klopp than Mourinho for Solskjaer. Klopps now 5 season at Liverpool? How many players is he using regularly that Rodgers brought in? .....

5 years the 8th of next month.

One. Firmino. Who he never wanted and bizarrely played out the left-hand side to make a F up point to the 'committee' he refused to work with. With his highly expensive signing that never fit his style in a million years Benteke playing up-front. Two with Gomez but he's played as much as Matip.

Milner's just a quality utility player at this stage. And Origi, for all his cult hero status, is the very definition of mediocrity,

Henderson's the last hold-over from Kenny's second go-around.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

..... I am tad on the side that Klopp got better side to make push where they are now. Firmino and lets face it Couthino was pivotal combining with his starting performance and the money it got you .....

G/K. Bogdan/ Mignolet/ Ward.
RB Clyne/ Flanagan/ Randall.
LB Moren/ Enrique.
CH Lovren/ Sakho/ Skrtel/ Toure.
WM. Coutinho/ Ibe/ Lallana/ Milner
M. Allen/ Can/ Henderson/ Lucas.
F. Benteke/ Ings (who did his ACL in his first training session under Klopp)/ Firmino/ Origi/ Sturridge.

With no decent youth to speak of outside of the incredibly raw Gomez who'd just arrived from Charlton.

That's a terriblly poor, unbalanced squad however you cut it mate. That were totally devoid of confidence, plummeting down the league and playing some horrifically bad football the end of Rodgers. I'm struggling to make a solid XI out of it. Miraculous that he got it to two major finals and finished just outside the top 4. You've 4 quality Klopp players there. Henderson, Lallana, Milner, and Bobby. Who was nottin like given he'd been totally misused by Brendan. Coutinho was quality but never a fit for a Klopp team. The same Sturridge. Along with his body sadly being made out of glass. Ings maybe if he'd not been so unlucky with serious injury's.

The rest were just mediocre to above/ below average that we had to work with and improve as we went.

Jesus, just looking at his first side at Tottenham. Completely unrecognisable to what we have now.

Those were dark times man.

Simon Mignolet
2		Nathaniel Clyne
17		Mamadou Sakho
18		Alberto Moreno
37		Martin Skrtel
7		James Milner (c)
10		Philippe Coutinho
20		Adam Lallana
21		Lucas Leiva
23		Emre Can
27		Divock Origi

SUBSTITUTES

34		Adam Bogdan
4		Kolo Touré
56		Connor Randall
24		Joe Allen
33		Jordon Ibe
53		João Carlos Teixeira
48		Jerome Sinclair

 

[steveorobbo]

I said it a long time ago that we should follow liverpools lead. Nobody can ever fault Klopp with the job hes done and the squad he started off with.

I remember watching a documentary about Dortmund when Klopp was in charge. When they was beating Bayern to titles and cups. They had a training room where balls flew out and the player had to listen for the beep then control the ball where it was fired from then play it into the hole where the light was. It was revolutionary regarding training. Id never seen anything like that. And that was why Dortmund was such a good team. The Coaching.

Klopp went to Liverpool. First season was admittedly ****. But he was putting his methods in place and the owners stuck with him. Second season if im not wrong he got to the Europa League Final. With what squad? *****. But he got them fit and stuck to a style of play. Year after Champion League final with pretty much the same squad bar a few additions that when signed we all laughed at as a waste of money. But they fit into the squad and the managers plan. Then with a few more changes to the squad they win the champions league then win the Premiership. Its all on the coaching. Liverpool in my eyes have the worst squad (depth I mean) out of the top 5 or 6 in the league but still won it. And the Champions League. And done that by giving youth a chance that we always bang on about.

Record for record Solskjaer is or par with Klopp or maybe infront after games played so far at the start of their careers. But not a chance will Solskjaer do what Klopp has done going forward with the squad hes got and coaching them.

 

[Theatre of Dreams83]

So in Jan Utd were quoted 25/30m for Josh King and now he’s about to sign for Villa for about 14m. Gotta love that Utd tax ??‍

 

[Sherkey]

So in Jan Utd were quoted 25/30m for Josh King and now he’s about to sign for Villa for about 14m. Gotta love that Utd tax ??‍

There's definitely a United tax, and we have seen it through the seasons. In this situation however, circumstances could have also changed - Bournemouth got relegated and Covid impacted finances. I think the restructured amount was due to both of those things. I suspect we will be quoted around 18 Mn maybe, if we went in for him? But we have Ighalo loan for the season, so it's a moot point, anyhow.

 

[Theatre of Dreams83]

There's definitely a United tax, and we have seen it through the seasons. In this situation however, circumstances could have also changed - Bournemouth got relegated and Covid impacted finances. I think the restructured amount was due to both of those things. I suspect we will be quoted around 18 Mn maybe, if we went in for him? But we have Ighalo loan for the season, so it's a moot point, anyhow.

Thank god he’s going to Villa!

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

There's definitely a United tax, and we have seen it through the seasons. In this situation however, circumstances could have also changed - Bournemouth got relegated and Covid impacted finances. I think the restructured amount was due to both of those things. I suspect we will be quoted around 18 Mn maybe, if we went in for him? But we have Ighalo loan for the season, so it's a moot point, anyhow.

Pretty much.

Wilson going to Newcastle hammers that home in glorious technicolour. They paid what, £20 million? Chelsea were looking at £50 million for him under Sarri the other year!!!!!

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

So in Jan Utd were quoted 25/30m for Josh King and now he’s about to sign for Villa for about 14m. Gotta love that Utd tax ??‍

Jesus. Like he's gonna' solve Villa's lack of goals.

Dean Smith must be high on the list of managers to go first.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

...... The Coaching .....

*I'll leave the Klopp talk that a Utd's fans views on the season has devoulved into with this as this isn't really the thread, but your post deserved running with Ste.....

I've cut your -bang-on post down to highlight the key point you kept returning to mate. The most important part of what we are and what the manager lives for before he ever turns to the market. The coaching.

He's currently the best coach/ teacher in the World bar none IMHO. Pep may currently have a greater trophy haul, but he does it a completely different way. As innovative as he's been, he's the preverbal cheque book manager ' and would be totally screwed working the way Jürgen has always worked.

Right from his first game that I put the line-up above at Tottenham after he'd had literally 3/4 days with them when they returned from Internationals, you were blown away by the immediate, massive difference in organisation and work-rate from the horrible to watch tedium we'd fallen to the end of Rodgers time. If he could bring about such an immediate change in half a week, to get them all to buy in to his style so quickly ...... Like 'WOW!!!!!' What would we be like after a few seasons under this man?

It's amusing as **** how there's still this mad narrative about him that he's this all-out pressing, crazy football coupled with a load of hugs and fist pumps on the sideline. And nothing more. A gimmick manager. When there's neither not a more thorough manager out there in leaving no stone unturned in every last detail of preparation. Along with being as tactically savvy as anyone you care to mention.

I think one of his greatest strengths that doesn't get talked about much is being humble enough to recognise he doesn't know everything and readily surrounding himself with experts that do and delegating/ trusting them. For example, people look at our injury record as pure luck. But that's far more by design than luck given he's completely revamped the medical, nutrition and sports science departments with some of the best in their field out there. Taking Munich's top fitness coach and nutritionist. A couple of City's best physio's. Top medical doctors from World-renowned sports injury clinics etc. Folk laughed and mocked when he hired a 'throw-in' coach. We now retain possession from throw-ins 33% more than any PL club I think the last figures were. We have a full-time psychologist consulting with the first team. Top Australian surfers have been brought in to consult on the psychological side which you'd laugh at on the face of it but who's been credited with having a major effect in the mental preparation the last pre-season for the lightening fast start we had. The list goes on of innovative changes he's made to both bring in experts who know more than he'll ever know in their respective fields. And being open to trying anything, however crazy-sounding, that can give his players that tiny edge that makes all the difference. There can't be many managers that are as thorough in the attention to the little things like he goes into.

Which all ultimately aids what you've mentioned numerous times there and what's the key to everything he gets the most pleasure out of. Coaching/ teaching players and improving them to the maximum they can possibly be.

You can honestly count on one hand the number of players through his time here, either what he's inherited, or those that he's brought in, who he hasn't improved through repetitive hard graft on the training pitch. Which when you listen to ex-Mainz and Dortmund players, almost none of who ever have a bad word to say about him, is a theme right through his career. And why there are not many top players now that aren't fair begging us to take them to have the chance to work under him. And being as we train as we play, and go all out every session, that's some man-management ability to have every member of the squad willing to happily work their collective behinds off every day knowing for most there's little chance of playing at the weekend. But they all know they'll both be turned into better footballers for it and at some point, their chance will come and they need to be at that level of everyone else in our side or else it throughs the whole team/ intricate system off. And it permeates down to the youth ranks as the open pathway is there for them as he's a massive advocate of giving youth their chance as you noted. Naturally, a better calibre of player as you grow plays a part. But that ability to make them into even better players than you bought ..... even the very top ones like van Dijk ..... that's priceless and rare.

From what he did at Mainz, through Dortmund, to now restoring L'pool back to the top of the English and European mountains, he's a living example of not having to spend humongous amounts of money and having 20 plus perceived WC players in your squad. You just need to get your whole structure right to identify the perfect fits for you. And then trust in your own coaching ability and everyone you've surrounded yourself with to turn them all into better footballers than when they arrived with you.

I honestly think Klopp's one of the very few top managers you could put with a league two/ Conference/ Non-league side and you'd see a quick, marked improvement in all their players. He's just that exceptional at what he loves more than anything.

Coaching. It underpins everything we are.

*Now back to your scheduled Utd thread haha.

 

[Theatre of Dreams83]

I thought I logged into red cafe by mistake for a min into the Klopp appreaction/lovin thread ?

 

[zzeezzy]

You think Klopp taking over from Rodgers was hard? **** Rodgers had to inherit Hodgson's and dalglish caretaker 'project' and nearly won them a league title.

Kenny done some of the groundwork in between (wasn't anything great), but Rodgers really got the ship sailing.

Anyway maybe we should take this to the Liverpool thread.

 

[zzeezzy]

Interesting 10 days ahead or so, before our first game, we need some new players in. I don't want us ******* around with Sancho anymore if we don't do that deal and then moan about not having time to do other deals.

I have similar feelings about Regulion, don't **** around for ages with Madrid, move on and get someone else. If they will only deal with a buy back clause then Madrid can do one.

 

[Theatre of Dreams83]

That seems to be the only sticking point with Regulion. The buy back clause. If they won’t drop it then they can do one.

 

[Theatre of Dreams83]

Katie Zelem, EllaToone, Millie Turner, Abbie McManus in England squad ?

 

[Theatre of Dreams83]

Rich Fay
@RichFay
Understand that Dylan Levitt first held talks with Charlton last month, but things went quiet amid financial uncertainty and his international involvement. League One club are keen to complete deal, but decision lies with the player. No shortage of interest elsewhere #mufc #cafc

 

[Legend Incredible]

...Like it or not, United did not have the foundation like Liverpool had with Brendan Rodgers...

I have to disagree with this. Klopp sold or fringed every player from the Rodgers era besides Firmino and Henderson. The foundation he left was a team filled with Joe Allen, Skrtel and Jonjo Shevly.

 

[Legend Incredible]

Getting the second place in PL and scoring what, 100 goals with Liverpool that season? Yep, squad had zero potential.
Edit:
Liverpool probably expected to win PL next season, thats why it was "toxic". Liverpool sniffing around PL was before Klopp, whether you like it or not. Klopp did take it to the next level, but to say he did it in the manner you say he did it, now thats comedy.

Luis Suarez mate. That was all Suarez. It's a shame he was sold before Klopp arrived