The Manchester United Thread

[Scouseinthehouse]

We still need a better DM and I doubt Pogba will be here next season.

Utd have the perfect # 6 who'd totally control games. Or even better in a double pivot to allow him more scope going forward with Fernandes in front.

They just don't have a coaching staff with a F clue how to fully utilise somebody like that.

 

[Theatre of Dreams83]

Utd have the perfect # 6 who totally control games. Or even better in a double pivot to allow him more scope going forward with Fernandes in front.

They just don't have a coaching staff with a F clue how to fully utilise somebody like that.

James Cooper was on SSN yesterday saying DVB has been promised a big role next season.

 

[kitchin75]

Utd have the perfect # 6 who totally control games. Or even better in a double pivot to allow him more scope going forward with Fernandes in front.

They just don't have a coaching staff with a F clue how to fully utilise somebody like that.

would that be donny

 

[Vanjagl]

VdB is not #6. He's a mix between 8 and a 10. Unfortunately for him, no player in the world is getting ahead of Bruno in that #10 role. Unfortunate for United, formations with pure #10s are easily exploited. Get Neves or someone in that mold, bin Pogba and play VdB there. He would thrive. As would probably Pogba with someone like Neves.
So that leaves VdB being way too good for the bench, but just not good enough to start at Manchester United.
He was signed as a Pogba replacement, with Pogba being nailed on on leaving the club in the summer. Then world went to ****.

Regarding the transfers. Unless someone from the midfield leaves, there won't be new signings. United have way too many midfielders anyway with the Garner coming of age and Mejbri knocking on the door.

I expect 2 signings. Either RB/CB (most likely RB as a cover, I don't think Ole thinks CBs are the most pressing issues) and RW. with the Sancho being the main target, again. I ain't expecting fireworks.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

VdB is not #6. He's a mix between 8 and a 10. .....

He is all of that from 6 through 8 to 10 if you wanted. As he was at Ajax.

You just need the right coach to utilise his talents.

Say it again, he's Utd's best midfielder for me who doesn't play. I couldn't pick a single better replacement for Wijnaldum in World football. Another super-talented Dutchman who plays all three of those roles superbly.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

James Cooper was on SSN yesterday saying DVB has been promised a big role next season.

I hope for his sake he does as he's way too good a footballer to be sat on the bench most weeks.

 

[Vanjagl]

He was never a #6 at Ajax. That was always De Jong who's game was a bit different than today. Donny was next to him with Ziyech ahead while he still was there. Later on Alvarez was playing as a pure defensive midfielder and Donny was moved further forward.

 

[Sherkey]

I reckon VdB is more of a box-to-box player in a 3 man midfield, where he can be creative and also defend, but the major onus on both roles is not entirely upon him. In that role, he can actually effectively use and harness space like he is so good at, in a slightly more roaming role. In a 2 man midfield, it becomes difficult to do that. That's part of the problem, the other is that he is not the best at both of the roles needed in the midfield spots we have. Honestly, not sure if he was considered with the playing style we go for.

That being said, players manipulating space is something we haven't had in quite a while, and for that, I am quite excited when he does play. It's also noticeable that some of his best performances came when he and Mata were on the pitch together and they could link up, since both of them use space in a similar fashion.

 

[Legend Incredible]

Utd have the perfect # 6 who'd totally control games. Or even better in a double pivot to allow him more scope going forward with Fernandes in front.

They just don't have a coaching staff with a F clue how to fully utilise somebody like that.

I get what you're saying but I'v just grown tired of the drama he brings and his agent honestly.

Plus I believe him leaving would be a massive plus for VdB whom I really want to see feature in the first team more next season .

Regarding, we need a proper holding mid anyways. I'd honestly love Koopemeiner from AZ Alkmaar

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

He was never a #6 at Ajax. That was always De Jong who's game was a bit different than today. Donny was next to him with Ziyech ahead while he still was there. Later on Alvarez was playing as a pure defensive midfielder and Donny was moved further forward.

Mate, Ajax's system is and always will be that fluid that they all rotated around and filled in for each other. He showed himself adept at all the midfield roles there.

Utd seem to want to pigeonhole an old school, defensive DM. Whereas you could, with a bit of tweaking, have the perfect, controlling 6 who's superb at recovery's and breaking up play and then starting it going. Or as a box-to-box 8.A double pivot is perfect to allow him to break into the box. Or even a 10.

Take your pick. But it's folly and limiting his ability to say he can't do this or that. You just need a brave, progressive coach to tweak things around him.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

I get what you're saying but I'm just grown tired of the drama he brings and his agent honestly. .....

I think we're getting our wires crossed mate. I was talking about van de Beek. Not Pogba.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

I reckon VdB is more of a box-to-box player in a 3 man midfield, where he can be creative and also defend, but the major onus on both roles is not entirely upon him. In that role, he can actually effectively use and harness space like he is so good at, in a slightly more roaming role. In a 2 man midfield, it becomes difficult to do that. That's part of the problem, the other is that he is not the best at both of the roles needed in the midfield spots we have. Honestly, not sure if he was considered with the playing style we go for.

That being said, players manipulating space is something we haven't had in quite a while, and for that, I am quite excited when he does play. It's also noticeable that some of his best performances came when he and Mata were on the pitch together and they could link up, since both of them use space in a similar fashion.

I think the bolded is entirely the issue. Poor recruitment.

Woodward spent all summer dicking around with Sancho after BVB slammed that door shut early. And he then panicked for a big name to save himself late on in the window. Without any thought of how he'd fit in.

I've no skin in this, Just find it frustrating for DVB's sake that I watched him do everything you're all crying out for at Ajax and he's just wasting away madly at Utd.

But hopefully for his sake that changes going forward as ToD referenced is the noise out of the club. Be a wonderful addition to the PL if they do start using him.

 

[Theatre of Dreams83]

VDB can definitely do a good job at a 6 especially in a team that dominates possession for most games of the season and who want to play out from the back. His football intelligence is top class.

 

[Vanjagl]

I think the bolded is entirely the issue. Poor recruitment.

Woodward spent all summer dicking around with Sancho after BVB slammed that door shut early. And he then panicked for a big name to save himself late on in the window. Without any thought of how he'd fit in.

I've no skin in this, Just find it frustrating for DVB's sake that I watched him do everything you're all crying out for at Ajax and he's just wasting away madly at Utd.

But hopefully for his sake that changes going forward as ToD referenced is the noise out of the club. Be a wonderful addition to the PL if they do start using him.

VDB can definitely do a good job at a 6 especially in a team that dominates possession for most games of the season and who want to play out from the back. His football intelligence is top class.

Just for clearance, when we are saying #6, we are talking about defensive playmaker?
Because if so, he doesn't have the passing range to be effective. He's a pass and move player, extremely intelligent with a great movement. I'm probably his biggest fan and I said year ago that he would be massive for United if he came. He was the main wheel in that Ajax midfield, and to see De Jong improve so massively with Barca lefts me wonders. He should be playing in that Pogba #8 role but just as with Pogba, it creates inbalance when he's in midfield of 2. Fred and McTominay are tempo players. Press and move the ball. Little running with it and next to nothing to creativity. None of them are capable of controling the game.

Take Thiago Alcantara for example. He was average at Liverpool until Fabinho finally moved back to midfield and all of the sudden, Thiago is controlling the game because he doesn't need to play as defensive. He can take more risks. United don't have player like Fabinho, and the most similar one is at the end of his career.

But the biggest issue is United formation. You either change formation ( why would you when you have one of the best midfielders in the world) or change the personnel. Thus most of United fans wants a DM who can control the game ( Carrick type ), someone who's going to set free other midfielders to do what they're best.

 

[Legend Incredible]

All this talk about him being a 6 and I do remember that game vs Southampton where he did play as a 6 in that 4-4-2 diamond earlier this season. He looked very sharp, recycled possession really well with some one touch passing at times and just generally kept things ticking.

 

[Theatre of Dreams83]

I would love to see a Pogba and VDB CM

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

All this talk about him being a 6 and I do remember that game vs Southampton where he did play as a 6 in that 4-4-2 diamond earlier this season. He looked very sharp, recycled possession really well with some one touch passing at times and just generally kept things ticking.

As ToD said, like most players schooled the Ajax way, his football intelligence is top-notch.

Utd need to figure something out as you're just wasting a top talent right now

 

[Theatre of Dreams83]

As ToD said, like most players schooled the Ajax way, his football intelligence is top-notch.

Utd need to figure something out as you're just wasting a top talent right now

Just trying to think why some think we need a pure DM like Kanye. Thinking back and watching old season reviews a bit lately I honestly can’t think of us ever playing one even back since Fergie. Maybe Schniederlin but he was Bob lol.

 

[Sherkey]

Just trying to think why some think we need a pure DM like Kanye. Thinking back and watching old season reviews a bit lately I honestly can’t think of us ever playing one even back since Fergie. Maybe Schniederlin but he was Bob lol.

Because that's how Solskjaer likes to play? He uses McFred as a combination, since they both together make up one DM - Fred with his interceptions and McTominey with his tackling. And both with their energy.

You need a proper DM style player to play Pogba through the middle since the majority of the defensive onus has to be done through them. Otherwise, things like this season will happen - playing Pogba through the left and Rashford through the right - RAshford is ineffective on the right and Pogba on the left means we are completely short of creativity in the middle.

Even back from Fergie, his midfield used to be Keane and Scholes - a Box to Box and a very deep lying playmaker - didn't need a DM so much when one of your midfielders is very deep and can ping passes like nobody's business. Then, it was a combination of Scholes and someone else - Giggs, Carrick, Park etc - all of which involved atleast one player who was deep and could properly pass, negating the most obvious need for a DM. Even later on, Pogba was paired with Matic, who dropped deeper and played out passes.

Now, we have McFred, who can't pass properly and has no creativity. Pogba always like to roam upfront with the ball (beat the press and carry the ball) through midfield, so he is not suited as someone who stays back. So, the need for a proper DM style player. Think similar to France, where the defensive duties fall mainly on Kante, freeing up Pogba to roam forward, link up and lay on passes.

Additionally, I wouldn't be looking forward to a 2-man midfield of VdB and Pogba - unless VdB is staying deep. Both of them like to roam with and without the ball, which affects shape.

 

[Theatre of Dreams83]

Because that's how Solskjaer likes to play? He uses McFred as a combination, since they both together make up one DM - Fred with his interceptions and McTominey with his tackling. And both with their energy.

You need a proper DM style player to play Pogba through the middle since the majority of the defensive onus has to be done through them. Otherwise, things like this season will happen - playing Pogba through the left and Rashford through the right - RAshford is ineffective on the right and Pogba on the left means we are completely short of creativity in the middle.

Even back from Fergie, his midfield used to be Keane and Scholes - a Box to Box and a very deep lying playmaker - didn't need a DM so much when one of your midfielders is very deep and can ping passes like nobody's business. Then, it was a combination of Scholes and someone else - Giggs, Carrick, Park etc - all of which involved atleast one player who was deep and could properly pass, negating the most obvious need for a DM. Even later on, Pogba was paired with Matic, who dropped deeper and played out passes.

Now, we have McFred, who can't pass properly and has no creativity. Pogba always like to roam upfront with the ball (beat the press and carry the ball) through midfield, so he is not suited as someone who stays back. So, the need for a proper DM style player. Think similar to France, where the defensive duties fall mainly on Kante, freeing up Pogba to roam forward, link up and lay on passes.

Additionally, I wouldn't be looking forward to a 2-man midfield of VdB and Pogba - unless VdB is staying deep. Both of them like to roam with and without the ball, which affects shape.

Maybe Ole doesn’t want to play that way and is only doing so because he hasn’t the CB pairing he wants so he bubble wraps them with McFred. Maybe he wants to go the same way as Fergie once he has the rest of his team sorted out. Pogba doing the Scholes role with VDB doing the Carrick deep lying play maker role just ticking things over and making interceptions. We won’t know till the season starts I guessing. I’ve conned myself into thinking we need a pure DM destroyer to play Pogba in CM which simply isn’t the case having a long think about it.