The Manchester United Thread

Theatre of Dreams83 said:
It doesn’t matter what I think and nothing has changed in my regards as per a DM being needed mate. But it’s clear it’s not a priority this summer. A RW and a good CB partner will solve a phew issues in the squad and balance. Fred and Pogba have actually played well together in CM and have a good win %. I can see Garner being eased into that creative DM pivot role over the next year or 2.

I predict next season we will be lining up something along the lines of

DDG/Henderson

AWB- Kounde-Maguire-Shaw
Fred-Pogba
Sancho-Bruno-Rashford
Cavani

A lot better than this seasons most started 11. Then the likes of Heaton, Tripier, Telles, Linderlof, Bailly, Tuanzebe, McTominey, VDB, Garner, Greenwood, Martial, James, Diallo making up the squad.

Then Ole having to make a decision on the likes of Laird, Williams, Levitt, Chong, Pillestri, Dalot, Elanga, Shortire, Mejbri being in the squad or out on loan
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We still need a better DM and I doubt Pogba will be here next season.
 
Legend Incredible said:
We still need a better DM and I doubt Pogba will be here next season.
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Noone (bar maybe PSG) has the purchasing power to get Pogba (in terms of transfer fee and wages). My guess is that we will end up giving him a ridiculous contract and he stays.

We definitely need a proper DM if we have to play Pogba in CM (which itself is necessary, as McFred is woefully short of creativity). Otherwise, if Pogba goes, pair Fred with someone who is decent defensively but can make line-breaking passes (Neves) and it could work. Any other midfielders like Pogba (SMS, Grealish) will still require a DM style player as they prefer to carry the ball to advanced areas.

On the topic of Fred, this was an interesting article sometime back summing up his qualities.
theathletic.co.uk

What is Fred at Manchester United

Fred has gone from £52 million flop to key cog at Manchester United but he is still a curious player in a curious midfield
theathletic.co.uk theathletic.co.uk

I honestly think he would decent at the base of a 3-man midfield in the Fernandinho role. Granted, his passing is erratic (improving now) and tackling is hit or miss, but his interceptions are rather good and he has the atheticism to observe and position himself better. In a 2 man midfield, those qualities alone just don't work.
 
Legend Incredible said:
We still need a better DM and I doubt Pogba will be here next season.
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Utd have the perfect # 6 who'd totally control games. Or even better in a double pivot to allow him more scope going forward with Fernandes in front.

They just don't have a coaching staff with a F clue how to fully utilise somebody like that.
 
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Scouseinthehouse said:
Utd have the perfect # 6 who totally control games. Or even better in a double pivot to allow him more scope going forward with Fernandes in front.

They just don't have a coaching staff with a F clue how to fully utilise somebody like that.
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James Cooper was on SSN yesterday saying DVB has been promised a big role next season.
 
VdB is not #6. He's a mix between 8 and a 10. Unfortunately for him, no player in the world is getting ahead of Bruno in that #10 role. Unfortunate for United, formations with pure #10s are easily exploited. Get Neves or someone in that mold, bin Pogba and play VdB there. He would thrive. As would probably Pogba with someone like Neves.
So that leaves VdB being way too good for the bench, but just not good enough to start at Manchester United.
He was signed as a Pogba replacement, with Pogba being nailed on on leaving the club in the summer. Then world went to ****.

Regarding the transfers. Unless someone from the midfield leaves, there won't be new signings. United have way too many midfielders anyway with the Garner coming of age and Mejbri knocking on the door.

I expect 2 signings. Either RB/CB (most likely RB as a cover, I don't think Ole thinks CBs are the most pressing issues) and RW. with the Sancho being the main target, again. I ain't expecting fireworks.
 
Vanjagl said:
VdB is not #6. He's a mix between 8 and a 10. .....
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He is all of that from 6 through 8 to 10 if you wanted. As he was at Ajax.

You just need the right coach to utilise his talents.

Say it again, he's Utd's best midfielder for me who doesn't play. I couldn't pick a single better replacement for Wijnaldum in World football. Another super-talented Dutchman who plays all three of those roles superbly.
 
He was never a #6 at Ajax. That was always De Jong who's game was a bit different than today. Donny was next to him with Ziyech ahead while he still was there. Later on Alvarez was playing as a pure defensive midfielder and Donny was moved further forward.
 
I reckon VdB is more of a box-to-box player in a 3 man midfield, where he can be creative and also defend, but the major onus on both roles is not entirely upon him. In that role, he can actually effectively use and harness space like he is so good at, in a slightly more roaming role. In a 2 man midfield, it becomes difficult to do that. That's part of the problem, the other is that he is not the best at both of the roles needed in the midfield spots we have. Honestly, not sure if he was considered with the playing style we go for.

That being said, players manipulating space is something we haven't had in quite a while, and for that, I am quite excited when he does play. It's also noticeable that some of his best performances came when he and Mata were on the pitch together and they could link up, since both of them use space in a similar fashion.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
Utd have the perfect # 6 who'd totally control games. Or even better in a double pivot to allow him more scope going forward with Fernandes in front.

They just don't have a coaching staff with a F clue how to fully utilise somebody like that.
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I get what you're saying but I'v just grown tired of the drama he brings and his agent honestly.

Plus I believe him leaving would be a massive plus for VdB whom I really want to see feature in the first team more next season .

Regarding, we need a proper holding mid anyways. I'd honestly love Koopemeiner from AZ Alkmaar
 
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Vanjagl said:
He was never a #6 at Ajax. That was always De Jong who's game was a bit different than today. Donny was next to him with Ziyech ahead while he still was there. Later on Alvarez was playing as a pure defensive midfielder and Donny was moved further forward.
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Mate, Ajax's system is and always will be that fluid that they all rotated around and filled in for each other. He showed himself adept at all the midfield roles there.

Utd seem to want to pigeonhole an old school, defensive DM. Whereas you could, with a bit of tweaking, have the perfect, controlling 6 who's superb at recovery's and breaking up play and then starting it going. Or as a box-to-box 8.A double pivot is perfect to allow him to break into the box. Or even a 10.

Take your pick. But it's folly and limiting his ability to say he can't do this or that. You just need a brave, progressive coach to tweak things around him.
 
Sherkey said:
I reckon VdB is more of a box-to-box player in a 3 man midfield, where he can be creative and also defend, but the major onus on both roles is not entirely upon him. In that role, he can actually effectively use and harness space like he is so good at, in a slightly more roaming role. In a 2 man midfield, it becomes difficult to do that. That's part of the problem, the other is that he is not the best at both of the roles needed in the midfield spots we have. Honestly, not sure if he was considered with the playing style we go for.

That being said, players manipulating space is something we haven't had in quite a while, and for that, I am quite excited when he does play. It's also noticeable that some of his best performances came when he and Mata were on the pitch together and they could link up, since both of them use space in a similar fashion.
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I think the bolded is entirely the issue. Poor recruitment.

Woodward spent all summer dicking around with Sancho after BVB slammed that door shut early. And he then panicked for a big name to save himself late on in the window. Without any thought of how he'd fit in.

I've no skin in this, Just find it frustrating for DVB's sake that I watched him do everything you're all crying out for at Ajax and he's just wasting away madly at Utd.

But hopefully for his sake that changes going forward as ToD referenced is the noise out of the club. Be a wonderful addition to the PL if they do start using him.
 
VDB can definitely do a good job at a 6 especially in a team that dominates possession for most games of the season and who want to play out from the back. His football intelligence is top class.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
I think the bolded is entirely the issue. Poor recruitment.

Woodward spent all summer dicking around with Sancho after BVB slammed that door shut early. And he then panicked for a big name to save himself late on in the window. Without any thought of how he'd fit in.

I've no skin in this, Just find it frustrating for DVB's sake that I watched him do everything you're all crying out for at Ajax and he's just wasting away madly at Utd.

But hopefully for his sake that changes going forward as ToD referenced is the noise out of the club. Be a wonderful addition to the PL if they do start using him.
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Theatre of Dreams83 said:
VDB can definitely do a good job at a 6 especially in a team that dominates possession for most games of the season and who want to play out from the back. His football intelligence is top class.
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Just for clearance, when we are saying #6, we are talking about defensive playmaker?
Because if so, he doesn't have the passing range to be effective. He's a pass and move player, extremely intelligent with a great movement. I'm probably his biggest fan and I said year ago that he would be massive for United if he came. He was the main wheel in that Ajax midfield, and to see De Jong improve so massively with Barca lefts me wonders. He should be playing in that Pogba #8 role but just as with Pogba, it creates inbalance when he's in midfield of 2. Fred and McTominay are tempo players. Press and move the ball. Little running with it and next to nothing to creativity. None of them are capable of controling the game.

Take Thiago Alcantara for example. He was average at Liverpool until Fabinho finally moved back to midfield and all of the sudden, Thiago is controlling the game because he doesn't need to play as defensive. He can take more risks. United don't have player like Fabinho, and the most similar one is at the end of his career.

But the biggest issue is United formation. You either change formation ( why would you when you have one of the best midfielders in the world) or change the personnel. Thus most of United fans wants a DM who can control the game ( Carrick type ), someone who's going to set free other midfielders to do what they're best.
 
All this talk about him being a 6 and I do remember that game vs Southampton where he did play as a 6 in that 4-4-2 diamond earlier this season. He looked very sharp, recycled possession really well with some one touch passing at times and just generally kept things ticking.
 
Legend Incredible said:
All this talk about him being a 6 and I do remember that game vs Southampton where he did play as a 6 in that 4-4-2 diamond earlier this season. He looked very sharp, recycled possession really well with some one touch passing at times and just generally kept things ticking.
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As ToD said, like most players schooled the Ajax way, his football intelligence is top-notch.

Utd need to figure something out as you're just wasting a top talent right now
 
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