The Premier League Thread

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Tyton said:
Have you seen the stories coming out about how Bayern players were allegedly doing extra training in secret because Ancelotti wouldn't let them?

I don't know how naive do they think fans are.
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The whole club and the way they go around bullying everyone else on their way to pretty hollow titles is a complete joke mate.

The Real Madrid of Germany and then some.
 
What league in their right mind, would accept Barcelona even joining? Sure it would arguably make it more exciting but would totally ruin the authenticity of it if they say joined the Premier League.
 
Lionel Messi's 'signing bonus' for staying at Barcelona could be as high as a record-breaking £80million and the club hope to have a naming-rights sponsor for the Nou Camp as early as next season to help them pay for it.

It is normal for clubs to add a signing-on fee or a renewal bonus in contracts but Messi's – estimated to be between £79m and £85m – is believed to be the highest ever.

In a special report in Catalan paper L'Ara this week it was claimed Barcelona's wage bill as a percentage of overall revenue is now at 84 per cent, up to £430m, although Messi's contract sweetener is not included in that figure because it's a bonus payment spread across the years of his new deal and not paid as part of his wage.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ssi-mega-80m-signing-bonus.html#ixzz4vJhxOWOT
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
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This report is from an investigation by a Catalan newspaper, L'Ara. I'm struggling to find/think of a big club that's more mismanaged. How could wages spiral out of control like this? This is a player that's turning 31 at the end of this season.

 
Theatre of dreams said:
Lionel Messi's 'signing bonus' for staying at Barcelona could be as high as a record-breaking £80million and the club hope to have a naming-rights sponsor for the Nou Camp as early as next season to help them pay for it.

It is normal for clubs to add a signing-on fee or a renewal bonus in contracts but Messi's – estimated to be between £79m and £85m – is believed to be the highest ever.

In a special report in Catalan paper L'Ara this week it was claimed Barcelona's wage bill as a percentage of overall revenue is now at 84 per cent, up to £430m, although Messi's contract sweetener is not included in that figure because it's a bonus payment spread across the years of his new deal and not paid as part of his wage.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ssi-mega-80m-signing-bonus.html#ixzz4vJhxOWOT
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
​
This report is from an investigation by a Catalan newspaper, L'Ara. I'm struggling to find/think of a big club that's more mismanaged. How could wages spiral out of control like this? This is a player that's turning 31 at the end of this season.
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It's a lesson that no player is bigger than the club and even best player in history doesn't actually walk on water. You see this **** for Argentina and Barca all the time. If they win it's thanks to Messi and Messi alone, if they lose everybody is at fault except Messi. It's still a team sport and one player, no matter how good, does not guarantee results.
 
Tyton said:
It's a lesson that no player is bigger than the club and even best player in history doesn't actually walk on water. You see this **** for Argentina and Barca all the time. If they win it's thanks to Messi and Messi alone, if they lose everybody is at fault except Messi. It's still a team sport and one player, no matter how good, does not guarantee results.
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Maradona did in '86. Put a very average team single-handedly (pun intended :P) on his back and took them to WC glory.

Which is why, rightly or wrongly as Messi's personal records are ridiculous, I'll always consider Maradona above him until he does the same for his Country.

Just saying. Shrugs.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
Maradona did in '86. Put a very average team single-handedly (pun intended :P) on his back and took them to WC glory.

Which is why, rightly or wrongly as Messi's personal records are ridiculous, I'll always consider Maradona above him until he does the same for his Country.

Just saying. Shrugs.
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Was sitting in the middle of this debate in the pub the other night, God it was exhausting. Not old enough to have seen most of the guys mentioned, so couldn't really comment; just observe.

One 60+ year old man (Villa fan) said Best was the greatest ever because of the conditions/pitch he destroyed opponents on, then the next guy (Pool fan) said he CANT be the best ever because he didn't win a world cup (Eh hello.. Northern Ireland?! Surely there's a line with that logic), then he says Pele is the undisputed greatest ever, even though he admitted to never seeing him live... then the next chap said Maradona is #1 of all time for almost exact your quote, but completely dismissed Messi from the conversation for "not doing anything with Argentina", then it was said from someone that Cristiano Ronaldo isn't anywhere near that bracket which was agreed by every man there (I mean, I agree he can't be the best ever as Messi>Ronaldo, but ffs his name should still be thrown into the mix? His legacy is still fairly similar [although just short of] Messi's)

I could be a mile off the mark here, but I think people have a tendency to favour the players they grew up watching? Nostalgia?? As they were way too dismissive of Messi/Ronaldo for my liking.

Interested to hear your views.
 
RhQQ said:
I could be a mile off the mark here, but I think people have a tendency to favour the players they grew up watching? Nostalgia?? As they were way too dismissive of Messi/Ronaldo for my liking.

Interested to hear your views.
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I've noticed something opposite honestly. A lot of people have insane bias to the recent. It's not enough to watch great players, everything that's happening right now always needs to be the best ever. And not a close call best ever, it needs to be best ever by a country mile.

And yeah, those debates are always a bit pointless, but I think that last 2-3 years have shown that insane numbers Messi and Ronaldo are producing have a lot to do with deteriorating quality of defensive football. Because it's not just those two banging 50 goals a year anymore. Cavani, Suarez, Lewandowski, Ibra, have all done that recently. 5 years ago Messi and Ronaldo seemed from outer space, but the world is catching up to them.
 
Well this 'debate' beats the bunkum currently of the same name now currently on Sky in their zeal to overhype Sat'day.

Hard to look beyond Pelé if we're talking the greatest of all time. He just transcends everyone. Naturally never saw him play. But I have relations that did the '66 WC at Goodison, who go back to the likes of Liddel and all points in between in the all-time World greats at Anfield over the years, who have always steadfastly said he's the best player they've ever seen live. (And that Brazil would have won that WC in England had Portugal not kicked Pelé out of it.). His record, what he's given to the game on a global scale and continues to do. He's just unparalleled.

I'd probably put Maradona a smidgen behind him not just for what he did in '86, but the era he played in when he got absolutely kicked to high Heaven. But he still took average sides to success. Would Messi of scored as many if he'd not been in an era when everything is in the forwards favour? (Which is the eternal problem when you try to compare era's.).

The problem I have with Maradona, is his off-field discretions. Which for me, goes totally against Best. (I don't consider him up there with his compadres Law and Charlton personally in Utd lore but let's not get into that.). You need to look at the whole package for me when defining greatness. The drugs thing besmirches Maradona. As Best's **** poor attitude to his Utd teammates in not turning up for a number of games through being ****** up in some tarts bed goes against him. When you're talking the greatest British player of all time, I don't think you can look past Dalglish. On and off the park in two separate Country's at the top two clubs at the time in either he elevated himself above everyone.

I also don't think any European player is up there with Pelé as the GOAT. ****, I don't know how you separate the greatest European footballer of all time even?

Ronaldo goals record is ridiculous and he, along with Henry, are arguably the best the PL has ever seen. Zidane had a wonderful career. van Basten was on course to surpass everything before injury cruelly robbed us of him. Michael Laudrup would be in contention having done it at both Barca and Madrid with the unique record of being liked and respected by both sets of supporters. Dalglish, Best would be in the mix. The likes of Puskas and de Stefano if you want to go further back. (Even if the latter was Argentinian who 'changed' Nationality.). You could make a STRONG case for a list of greats. I'd probably edge toward Cruyff if you held a gun to my head for the legacy he left behind as both a player and coach. His innovations as a coach, to take on what Michels started and improve on the total football ideal, is that far-reaching in the modern game that has to count highly surely? Innovators like that, that leave their mark on the game in different era's are hard to beat when you take everything into consideration.

Thing with this is it's all subjective. You know, the best individual performance I've ever seen live? Klinsmann of all people in the Cup mid-90's when 'Spurs upset us at Anfield the quarters. He was absolutely World class that day and made Ruddock look like an amateur. The perfect centre-forward display. I've seen Mesi live 4 times I think it is now and he's never had a kick. Is that fair to judge him off? Shrugs.

I think I'd go Pelé on a World level and Cruyff on a European.
 
Tyton I agree with your point. Example being Messi scoring a hat-trick against nothing-to-play-for Ecuador the other night (who I heard didn't even have a full side out) was blew up way too much, as if it was out of this world. Give me a break. I've seen him rip Manchester United, Real Madrid etc. apart; so don't come at me with that **** lads, take a deep breath and pipe down.

Cool Scouse, Cruyff's name was bang in that conversation too, and one of the few players in which none of the gents objected to. I myself prefer to judge what I see in the flesh. Only being in my 20's, I haven't seen a vast majority of those names live. So for me, Messi is the greatest I've ever seen. Ronaldo second. Zidane third.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
Ronaldo goals record is ridiculous and he, along with Henry, are arguably the best the PL has ever seen. Zidane had a wonderful career. van Basten was on course to surpass everything before injury cruelly robbed us of him. Michael Laudrup would be in contention having done it at both Barca and Madrid with the unique record of being liked and respected by both sets of supporters. Dalglish, Best would be in the mix. The likes of Puskas and de Stefano if you want to go further back. (Even if the latter was Argentinian who 'changed' Nationality.). You could make a STRONG case for a list of greats. I'd probably edge toward Cruyff if you held a gun to my head for the legacy he left behind as both a player and coach. His innovations as a coach, to take on what Michels started and improve on the total football ideal, is that far-reaching in the modern game that has to count highly surely? Innovators like that, that leave their mark on the game in different era's are hard to beat when you take everything into consideration.
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If you rule out best as he sometimes didn't show up for things then you can't consider laudrup one of the best as he missed the Danes 1992 Euros win as he stayed on holiday as he thought they had no chance of doing anything in the tournament
 
I don't really do the best ever thing its hard to compare era's especially the modern as Tyton rightly says defending is a joke these days.

That being said Ronaldo (R9) was probably the best I have ever seen but Zizou and Ronaldinho being my favourite players, if it wasn't for injuries he would be in this convo he was a totally different animal but thw knee injuries robbed us of his prime to an extent. I am just glad I got to see all these great players in their prime. CR7 is an animal, Messi is just scary and I love the era of attacking football despite my football education beginning in Serie A.

I was actually having this conversation the other day and said as much. I think for contribution as a whole to football its got to be Cruyff though, undoubtedly a great player but his coaching legacy is still living on today and I doubt that mans contributions to the game will be surpassed as a player, coach and all round ambassador for the game.

edit - just my opinion if you don't agree about cruyff I am not gunna split hairs we all judge these kind of things by different yard sticks its just my own personal feeling
 
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epic terrorist said:
I don't really do the best ever thing its hard to compare era's especially the modern as Tyton rightly says defending is a joke these days.

That being said Ronaldo (R9) was probably the best I have ever seen but Zizou and Ronaldinho being my favourite players, if it wasn't for injuries he would be in this convo he was a totally different animal but thw knee injuries robbed us of his prime to an extent. I am just glad I got to see all these great players in their prime. CR7 is an animal, Messi is just scary and I love the era of attacking football despite my football education beginning in Serie A.

I was actually having this conversation the other day and said as much. I think for contribution as a whole to football its got to be Cruyff though, undoubtedly a great player but his coaching legacy is still living on today and I doubt that mans contributions to the game will be surpassed as a player, coach and all round ambassador for the game.

edit - just my opinion if you don't agree about cruyff I am not gunna split hairs we all judge these kind of things by different yard sticks its just my own personal feeling
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Agree with all of this!

Ronaldinho easily my favorite player to watch, always looked like he was actually enjoying himself and some of the stuff he could do with the ball was ridiculous.

Got to say, Zidane has had a great start as Madrid manager, will see how long that goes but so far he has done really well
 
Good shout with Brazilian Ronaldo! He was on another planet too in his peak.

Interesting take on defending the last couple of pages. I don't think it's so much the defending/defenders are poor nowadays, it's just the law & rules on steroids (cheap yellows, reds for 2 feet/off the ground challenges, even a penalty for a shirt tug in the area from set pieces, that's forgetting the inconsistencies) have predominantly forced it the way it is now. In fact, I'd go as far as saying you've got to be more skilled at it than ever, as if you can't skillfully defend by the law, then you're ******; as you're not getting away with any naughty stuff that you would've 10, 20 or 30+ years ago. The brute, crunching defending that the British culture loves, is simply dying by law. Which imo, is why you're seeing crazy these goal numbers in recent years. It's going down a total football path, from keeper to striker, and the centre halves are definitely the biggest sufferers from it.

Poor Stoke & West Brom have had sleepless nights because of the rapid changes in recent years.
 
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Slippery slope now for them.
They will bounce in and out of the premier league now.

Just another yo-yo team.
 
ninjaskill said:
If you rule out best as he sometimes didn't show up for things then you can't consider laudrup one of the best as he missed the Danes 1992 Euros win as he stayed on holiday as he thought they had no chance of doing anything in the tournament
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Missed this. He and his Denmark teammates tell it completely different mate. I'll find the video when I'm home and link it. (If for nottin' else it's a half hour on his wonderful career if it's the same progy I'm thinking of.).

*Edit*

[video=youtube;-pf05e6oTnU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pf05e6oTnU[/video]
 
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