The Premier League Thread

[Alcaraz]

**** me the drool fest on Sunday Supplement calling Pep one of the greatest managers ever if not the greatest. :O

He is one of the greatest managers though

 

[Theatre of dreams]

He is one of the greatest managers though

Debatable for me. Yes he's won a lot of trophies. But look at what teams he's had also managed most probs the greatest club side ever in Barca and managed a great Bayern team in a 1 team league while he was there.

 

[epic terrorist]

Debatable for me. Yes he's won a lot of trophies. But look at what teams he's had also managed most probs the greatest club side ever in Barca and managed a great Bayern team in a 1 team league while he was there.

Do you think it became the greatest club side just by accident? That team was a mess when he took the job.

wouldnt say he is the greatest but he is well on the way to having as much impact on the game as Cruyff and by the time he retires he will be spoke about in terms of being the greatest or at least one of for me.

 

[Theatre of dreams]

Do you think it became the greatest club side just by accident? That team was a mess when he took the job.

wouldnt say he is the greatest but he is well on the way to having as much impact on the game as Cruyff and by the time he retires he will be spoke about in terms of being the greatest or at least one of for me.

Okay the season before he took over they were ****. But the season before that they won nearly everything. I'm not saying he's not a good manager. But one of the greatest ever or the greatest is a bit far for me. Opinions and all its why footballs so good and I love it so much

 

[epic terrorist]

Okay the season before he took over they were ****. But the season before that they won nearly everything. I'm not saying he's not a good manager. But one of the greatest ever or the greatest is a bit far for me. Opinions and all its why footballs so good and I love it so much

But do you think it became the greatest club side by accident?

 

[Theatre of dreams]

But do you think it became the greatest club side by accident?

No not by accident. But Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Puyol etc were all there. Like I said I think he's a good manager. But it's just my opinion. I'm sure 99.9% on here will completely disagree with me.

 

[ImAddicted]

But look at what teams he's had also managed most probs the greatest club side ever in Barca and managed a great Bayern team in a 1 team league while he was there.

Greatest Barcelona side ever? That side was a mess. He did fantastic work there.

Although Bayern was already a strong side, he brought stability to that team and has basically made sure that team can compete for trophies for many years to come.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

What ever way you cut it, Pep failed at Bayern. His remit was to win them the European Cup. Domestically it's a given. In three seasons, he didn't deliver that.

 

[epic terrorist]

What ever way you cut it, Pep failed at Bayern. His remit was to win them the European Cup. Domestically it's a given. In three seasons, he didn't deliver that.

You should ask all the legends at the club if they think he has failed, they all gush over him and cannot speak more highly of how he has transformed the club on and off the pitch

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

If you're hired to win something, and you don't deliver, I don't see how you can spin it any other way than failing.

You'd have to be incredibly hopeless to not clean up domestically in Germany with Munich so far in front financially as they are. But they went and hired him to bring home the big one. Might sound harsh but those are the standards you're judged by.

 

[epic terrorist]

If you're hired to win something, and you don't deliver, I don't see how you can spin it any other way than failing. You'd have to be incredibly hopeless to not clean up domestically in Germany with Munich so far in front financially as they are. But they went and hired him to bring home the big one. Might sound harsh but those are the standards you're judged by.

Im not spinning it anyway, only in the eyes of the media would it be judged a failure, majority of fans and people connected with the club have nothing but praise for him about his time and effect on the club and german football. Theres shitloads of pieces out there saying as much even the Pep documentary on sky says as much too. Its not a failure at all his time there thats quite a narrow way of looking at it, I'm saying ask the people connected with the club.

 

[ImAddicted]

What ever way you cut it, Pep failed at Bayern. His remit was to win them the European Cup. Domestically it's a given. In three seasons, he didn't deliver that.

Yes he failed to win the Champions Cup but how does that qualify as a complete failure? People will always criticize Pep for his Champions League woes but will fail to acknowledge everything else he has done for the club.

 

[Theatre of dreams]

Greatest Barcelona side ever? That side was a mess. He did fantastic work there.

Although Bayern was already a strong side, he brought stability to that team and has basically made sure that team can compete for trophies for many years to come.

The Bayern team had stability under Hynkes he just won the treble, even if Pep had not taken over they would have still won the league. And that Barca team was far from a mess. Deco, Henry, Eto, Xavi, Iniesta, Valdes, Thuram, Ronaldinho,Messi, Toure, Abidal were already there then he bought in the likes of Alves, Pique, Busquets etc in his first season. Right mess of a team that.

 

[ninjaskill]

At Barcelona Pep showed he was a very good manager but, he didn't do a great job at Bayern the team had reached 3 out of the last four Champions League finals before he arrived and none under him. In the league he never got as many points as Heynckes and failed to score as many goals

Also people in Bayern seem a bit spilt on him somewhat for Europe and somewhat as they felt he ruined the Germanness of the team.

Pep Guardiola has been a 'failure at Bayern Munich', says Ivica Olic | Daily Mail Online

Pep Guardiola Hits Back at Bayern Munich Becoming Spanish Criticism - Football News

 

[epic terrorist]

The Bayern team had stability under Hynkes he just won the treble, even if Pep had not taken over they would have still won the league. And that Barca team was far from a mess. Deco, Henry, Eto, Xavi, Iniesta, Valdes, Thuram, Ronaldinho,Messi, Toure, Abidal were already there then he bought in the likes of Alves, Pique, Busquets etc in his first season. Right mess of a team that.

And yet Rijkaard the season before failed hard, the barceloan fans were waving the qhite flag at matches in protest that season because things had unravelled so much. Lets stop pretending that top level management is easy if that was the case Chelseas title winning side wouldn't have finished tenth last season, or Moyes would have won the league again following on from Fergie.

also from the players you mentioned going off memory

Thuram was 35+ and retired
Deco went to chelsea
ronaldinho to Milan
Xavi was on the verge of leaving
iniesta and messi wasn't the world class players they went on to become
Busquets was promoted from the B side and pep had coached him well but was largely unproven as that barca b side was in the third division
Pique again largely unproven

So its not like he walked into a brilliant all encompassing team which he guided the next season to a treble I think it was (League, cup and UCL)

 

[ImAddicted]

And yet Rijkaard the season before failed hard, the barceloan fans were waving the qhite flag at matches in protest that season because things had unravelled so much. Lets stop pretending that top level management is easy if that was the case Chelseas title winning side wouldn't have finished tenth last season, or Moyes would have won the league again following on from Fergie.

also from the players you mentioned going off memory

Thuram was 35+ and retired
Deco went to chelsea
ronaldinho to Milan
Xavi was on the verge of leaving
iniesta and messi wasn't the world class players they went on to become
Busquets was promoted from the B side and pep had coached him well but was largely unproven as that barca b side was in the third division
Pique again largely unproven

So its not like he walked into a brilliant all encompassing team which he guided the next season to a treble I think it was (League, cup and UCL)

But all of this gets ignored because of the stature of the club and the fact that it is Barcelona.

 

[ImAddicted]

At Barcelona Pep showed he was a very good manager but, he didn't do a great job at Bayern the team had reached 3 out of the last four Champions League finals before he arrived and none under him. In the league he never got as many points as Heynckes and failed to score as many goals

Also people in Bayern seem a bit spilt on him somewhat for Europe and somewhat as they felt he ruined the Germanness of the team.

Pep Guardiola has been a 'failure at Bayern Munich', says Ivica Olic | Daily Mail Online

Pep Guardiola Hits Back at Bayern Munich Becoming Spanish Criticism - Football News

The quote in bold is irrelevant because he still won the league several times.

 

[ninjaskill]

The quote in bold is irrelevant because he still won the league several times.

He did but, it is just something that can be compared.

 

[Tyton]

I think people forget just how good Heynckes Bayern were. At its peak, it was easily the most devastating side of the last 15 years or so. They didn't just win the Champions Cup, they rode to victory as if they were an armored truck speeding through flock of pigeons.

To strengthen the squad with the likes of Gotze, Alonso, Lewandowski, Vidal, and still not even make one final, and get completely outplayed and out-tacticted in all the semis...Bayern board couldn't have been pleased.

 

[Theatre of dreams]

I think people forget just how good Heynckes Bayern were. At its peak, it was easily the most devastating side of the last 15 years or so. They didn't just win the Champions Cup, they rode to victory as if they were an armored truck speeding through flock of pigeons.

To strengthen the squad with the likes of Gotze, Alonso, Lewandowski, Vidal, and still not even make one final, and get completely outplayed and out-tacticted in all the semis...Bayern board couldn't have been pleased.

Incredible how underrated Hynkes was/ is!