UCL: Arsenal Vs FC Barcelona 1st k/o round

[ajt09]

Well, if its gettin closed shortly, I can say: on balance of play, Barca deserved it. Bendtner was unlucky with his shot, as he was excellently stopped, the sending off was totally ludicrous, and Arsenal did themselves very proud with the way they defended for so long. The ref got decisions wrong on both sides. So now, its time to focus on the prem title. Arsenal need to invest in new players. They do that, they stand a much better chance in the CL next year.

 

[GodCubed]

To say the game changed, there needs to be a conclusive change in the dynamic of the game. Really, that didn't happen. Barca were on the up, Arsenal were tiring, and things just generally looked bad for the men in red. The referee didn't change the course of the game one bit: all he did was hasten the inevitable.

That said, it was a terrible decision and unfair on Arsenal, who really might have changed the game if RvP had remained on the pitch. Still, we'll never know now.

 

[Joss]

whos to say even if Van Persie was still on the pitch Barca wouldn't still have won?

I'm not saying they wouldn't have had a chance, I'm saying that it changed the game. When a team has a player sent off, it's always likely to change the game, when a team has a player WRONGLY sent off, it's likely to change it even more. It changes the attitude of the rest of the team, and their heads go down.

 

[19-11-08]

Of course it does. Referees do this kind of thing all the time. A player is on a yellow, makes a dubious challenge, and the ref lets him off.

---------- Post added at 03:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:54 AM ----------



At 1-1 - we were going through. FACT.

At 1-1, the Referee changed the game.

You were in a winning position, yeah but you still had 37 minutes to hold on.
Barcelona were cutting through your defence at will. Losing RVP was a blow but he would have hardly been back there making interceptions.

 

[Calum]

Do you want it kept opened or shall i close it ?

​

 

[Joss]

To say the game changed, there needs to be a conclusive change in the dynamic of the game. Really, that didn't happen. Barca were on the up, Arsenal were tiring, and things just generally looked bad for the men in red. The referee didn't change the course of the game one bit: all he did was hasten the inevitable.

That said, it was a terrible decision and unfair on Arsenal, who really might have changed the game if RvP had remained on the pitch. Still, we'll never know now.

I think it did change the dynamic of the game. OK, they were on top anyway, but you could see that their heads went down, we gave the ball away far more often, and our previously excellent defending got scrappy.

I'm not saying Barca didn't deserve to win, and that we would have won otherwise, but IMO, there's no doubt he changed the game, whether that was by hastening the inevitable, or directly giving Barca the advantage, it doesn't matter.

 

[GodCubed]

You were in a winning position, yeah but you still had 37 minutes to hold on.
Barcelona were cutting through your defence at will. Losing RVP was a blow but he would have hardly been back there making interceptions.

That is missing the point by a country mile though. The whole point of integrated pressing is that it strats from the front. With no striker, there is no pressure on defenders. No pressure on defenders, easy distribution. Hence, easier ball retention. Hence, Arsenal have to work harder to get it back, tiring them out.

Everything has a knock-on effect.

---------- Post added at 04:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:05 AM ----------

I think it did change the dynamic of the game. OK, they were on top anyway, but you could see that their heads went down, we gave the ball away far more often, and our previously excellent defending got scrappy.

I'm not saying Barca didn't deserve to win, and that we would have won otherwise, but IMO, there's no doubt he changed the game, whether that was by hastening the inevitable, or directly giving Barca the advantage, it doesn't matter.

Fair point. I think the key difference to make here is the definition of 'change': I think some people are taking it to mean 'reverse' rather than 'impact'. The ref sending off RvP most certainly impacted the game in a negative sense for Arsenal. Whether it reversed it is doubtful, but of course you aren't saying that.

 

[markodragojevic]

Do you want it kept opened or shall i close it ?

​

Keep it open...

 

[Jak]

Of course I ****** well can. We had 10 men after that, and our heads went down.

I don't give a flying **** if we had 0 shots, at 1-1, we were through - why are people disputing this?

The ref had a really poor game in general. A sending off for nothing, 1 second after the whistle goes, a penalty that should have been given to them, Dani Alves' scissor tackle on Nasri, the numerous fouls on our players that were waved on etc etc

you were through at that point but the game doesn't end there. If Van Persie was still on the pitch you may have gone through. Equally if he was still on the pitch you may not have gone through. You can't say definitively which way the game would have gone.

Who's to say if he had stayed on we wouldn't of won it?

And it did change the game, took away another player to help defend and another player Barca had to keep an eye on and a player who could of taken any chance that fell his way.

See Godcubed's comment. He somes it up pretty well.

I'm not saying they wouldn't have had a chance, I'm saying that it changed the game. When a team has a player sent off, it's always likely to change the game, when a team has a player WRONGLY sent off, it's likely to change it even more. It changes the attitude of the rest of the team, and their heads go down.

Again see Godcubed's comment. You could also blame the Arsenal players for their heads going down, they need the self belief that they are still in the game and it's not over. That's their own fault for not having that self belief. Equally it is Wengers fault for not having experienced players to help the younger players keep fighting for the game.


right off to bed so if I dont reply that's why. I'll read your comments 2morrow

 

[Joel`]

To say the game changed, there needs to be a conclusive change in the dynamic of the game. Really, that didn't happen. Barca were on the up, Arsenal were tiring, and things just generally looked bad for the men in red. The referee didn't change the course of the game one bit: all he did was hasten the inevitable.

That said, it was a terrible decision and unfair on Arsenal, who really might have changed the game if RvP had remained on the pitch. Still, we'll never know now.

To be fair though, while it changed nothing immediately, after he was sent off and they went into a losing position, they were lacking the only outlet to potentially change the dynamic of the game in the future.

Oh, and I'm not saying this is an excuse for losing the game, Barca were superb. But again, even if it changed the impact or not; we're talking about officials rather than the actual game which contained some wonderful football.

 

[Joss]

You were in a winning position, yeah but you still had 37 minutes to hold on.
Barcelona were cutting through your defence at will. Losing RVP was a blow but he would have hardly been back there making interceptions.

But they weren't cutting through our defence at will at all.

We hardly let them through in the first half. AFTER that, yes, they got through several times and should have killed the game off completely.

Losing a man always means that passes go astray, the opposition midfield (since RvP drops so deep, and Arsenal have to reshuffle) is even more able to keep the ball, and we can't counter effectively without a ST.

We had 37 minutes to hold on, in the first half, we held on brilliantly for 47. Who's to say we wouldn't/couldn't have again? You're underestimating our defensive capabilities.

And to everyone saying AW needs to invest: Two excellent CB performances for 70 mins or so AGAIN and a top GK performance from our 3rd choice. Our 2nd choice (Fabianski) looked brilliant before his injury, and our current #1 (Szczesny) has been terrific.

Yet we need a big, strong, CB and an experienced GK.. You have to say something negative about us I guess, don't you?

 

[GodCubed]

To be fair though, while it changed nothing immediately, after he was sent off and they went into a losing position, they were lacking the only outlet to potentially change the dynamic of the game in the future.

Indeed, hence the 'impact'/'change' mini-monologue above.

Yet we need a big, strong, CB and an experienced GK.. You have to say something negative about us I guess, don't you?

Unfortunately, yes. We need SOME reason to explain why Arsenal haven't completely destroyed the league. The attack isn't the problem, that is obvious. So if the defence and goalkeeper aren't either, what is? Short-sighted people seize on the whole defence thing for Arsenal because its the only thing they have. I don't have that much of a cogent idea why Arsenal aren't doing better myself, but I'd like to think I'm intelligent enough not to just jump on a bandwagon every time it rolls around.

 

[JDY]

Joss, the red card didn't change the game, the play was heading in the same direction was the entire game - towards the Arsenal goal.

What the red card did do was give Arsenal no hope of mounting any sort of attack as they had no outlet. Not that they were allowed to attack before the sending off, when Arsenal got the ball eventually they were forced to give it away because of the constant pressure from the Barca players.

 

[Joss]

That is missing the point by a country mile though. The whole point of integrated pressing is that it strats from the front. With no striker, there is no pressure on defenders. No pressure on defenders, easy distribution. Hence, easier ball retention. Hence, Arsenal have to work harder to get it back, tiring them out.

Everything has a knock-on effect.

---------- Post added at 04:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:05 AM ----------



Fair point. I think the key difference to make here is the definition of 'change': I think some people are taking it to mean 'reverse' rather than 'impact'. The ref sending off RvP most certainly impacted the game in a negative sense for Arsenal. Whether it reversed it is doubtful, but of course you aren't saying that.

Hit the nail on the head for me.

 

[ajt09]

But they weren't cutting through our defence at will at all.

We hardly let them through in the first half. AFTER that, yes, they got through several times and should have killed the game off completely.

Losing a man always means that passes go astray, the opposition midfield (since RvP drops so deep, and Arsenal have to reshuffle) is even more able to keep the ball, and we can't counter effectively without a ST.

We had 37 minutes to hold on, in the first half, we held on brilliantly for 47. Who's to say we wouldn't/couldn't have again? You're underestimating our defensive capabilities.

And to everyone saying AW needs to invest: Two excellent CB performances for 70 mins or so AGAIN and a top GK performance from our 3rd choice. Our 2nd choice (Fabianski) looked brilliant before his injury, and our current #1 (Szczesny) has been terrific.

Yet we need a big, strong, CB and an experienced GK.. You have to say something negative about us I guess, don't you?

To be fair I'm not criticising Arsenal, I think they have some great players. But they probably do not a bit more strength don't you think? There's some players who haven't been that consistent during the season. I'm only going by what I've seen on TV/highlights, you see them more than me

 

[Ride The Walrus]

Typical Arsenal though. I think most people assumed something similar would happen. Barcelona won because they played better.

 

[Joss]

Joss, the red card didn't change the game, the play was heading in the same direction was the entire game - towards the Arsenal goal.

What the red card did do was give Arsenal no hope of mounting any sort of attack as they had no outlet. Not that they were allowed to attack before the sending off, when Arsenal got the ball eventually they were forced to give it away because of the constant pressure from the Barca players.

So it DID change the game? Because it impacted on Arsenal's ability to get the ball forward and to keep possession when they *did* have it?

 

[Joel`]

Indeed, hence the 'impact'/'change' mini-monologue above.

Stealth edit while I was posting.

---------- Post added at 04:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:12 AM ----------

Unfortunately, yes. We need SOME reason to explain why Arsenal haven't completely destroyed the league. The attack isn't the problem, that is obvious. So if the defence and goalkeeper aren't either, what is? Short-sighted people seize on the whole defence thing for Arsenal because its the only thing they have. I don't have that much of a cogent idea why Arsenal aren't doing better myself, but I'd like to think I'm intelligent enough not to just jump on a bandwagon every time it rolls around.

Their defence isn't even as weak as it's made out either too, to be fair. Szczesny has looked a promising young keeper, barring the Birmingham game. Koscielny was superb against Barca at the Emirates, and I have no doubt he'll have a great partnership with Vermaelen. Must be so frustrating for Wenger, everyone jumps on his back to spend big, when he clearly thinks the talent's there to win things. And it is.

 

[Shockhorror.]

Horrible game to watch, I'm so disappointed. Was bad enough with 11 men but the joke of a sending off made it even worse.

0 shots all game though? Embarrassing tbh.

Oh, and I detest Dani Alves.

 

[Danyul]

Of course I ****** well can. We had 10 men after that, and our heads went down.

I don't give a flying **** if we had 0 shots, at 1-1, we were through - why are people disputing this?

Not sure if you remember, when villa got fouled, he did a ridiculous amount of rolls. He did more rolls there than van persie had touches of the ball.

If the sent off player in question was a key part of your defense (such as koscielny or song in the 1st leg) then you may have a point. Van persie never got near the ball, he was just 1 more person in the flimsy parked bus.

Up until the sending off it was relentless barca attacking, one way traffic. To say the decision was game changing, as someone else said, it would have to have actually changed something. It didn't. Barca dominated before, and after. Fact.

So it DID change the game? Because it impacted on Arsenal's ability to get the ball forward and to keep possession when they *did* have it?

Even before the sending off, you gave the ball away cheaply, or were pressured into mistakes.. every. single. time.

If you had the ability at any point in the game to get the ball forward and keep posession, you would've got a shot off.