VerZa's 4-3-3 - Breaking the record with Southampton

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Hi guys. A few weeks ago a made a review for this tactic where I complained about the midfielders shooting too much. It seems that this aspect is getting even worse now. My midfield duo often doubles or triples the amount of shots of my striker and they just don't score. I know there is no magic formula to make them score more often, so how can I limit the amount of shots?

The PPMs 'looks for a pass rather than attempting to score' and 'refrains from taking long shots' don't work, and the player instruction 'shoot less often' doesn't work too. Is there a change in the team's mentality, shape or instructions that solves this problem? I'm still winning lots of games, but it annoys the **** out of me when I see so many chances wasted.

Edit

Now the problem has extended to the winger and inside forward. I'm in November, and my main choices Willian(winger) and keita(inside forward) have a single goal between then, and it's causing my team to have insufficient results against every sort of teams, like narrow wins or draws. I know that neither of then is a finishing expert, but come on...

And once again, I see a lot of goals coming from set pieces but very few coming from actually playing football. It ****** me of seeing my team winning matches at home against squads like brescia and spezia by 1-0 or 2-0 when all the goals start from throw ins or corner kicks and not by the attacking and dominating football implied.
 
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alex21px said:
Hi guys. A few weeks ago a made a review for this tactic where I complained about the midfielders shooting too much. It seems that this aspect is getting even worse now. My midfield duo often doubles or triples the amount of shots of my striker and they just don't score. I know there is no magic formula to make them score more often, so how can I limit the amount of shots?

The PPMs 'looks for a pass rather than attempting to score' and 'refrains from taking long shots' don't work, and the player instruction 'shoot less often' doesn't work too. Is there a change in the team's mentality, shape or instructions that solves this problem? I'm still winning lots of games, but it annoys the **** out of me when I see so many chances wasted.

Edit

Now the problem has extended to the winger and inside forward. I'm in November, and my main choices Willian(winger) and keita(inside forward) have a single goal between then, and it's causing my team to have insufficient results against every sort of teams, like narrow wins or draws. I know that neither of then is a finishing expert, but come on...

And once again, I see a lot of goals coming from set pieces but very few coming from actually playing football. It ****** me of seeing my team winning matches at home against squads like brescia and spezia by 1-0 or 2-0 when all the goals start from throw ins or corner kicks and not by the attacking and dominating football implied.
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Try unticking "Get further forward" from the CM(Au), add "shoot less often" to both CM's, like you already did. Perhaps change CM(Au)'s mentality to support. If that doesn't work, it might be the game.
The problem with the wingers.. Are they shooting too often?

Just try tweaking the tactic, see if you can fix the problem. If you find a way, please let me know :) .. I can't really do anything in my save, as I'm not experienceing the same problems as you :/ Of course the CM's shoot approximately 3 times per game, but they're also scoring quite a lot. And a lot of my goals come from open play..

Which team are you, which players do you have? Are their morale high?
 
VerZa said:
Try unticking "Get further forward" from the CM(Au), add "shoot less often" to both CM's, like you already did. Perhaps change CM(Au)'s mentality to support. If that doesn't work, it might be the game.
The problem with the wingers.. Are they shooting too often?

Just try tweaking the tactic, see if you can fix the problem. If you find a way, please let me know :) .. I can't really do anything in my save, as I'm not experienceing the same problems as you :/ Of course the CM's shoot approximately 3 times per game, but they're also scoring quite a lot. And a lot of my goals come from open play..

Which team are you, which players do you have? Are their morale high?
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Thanks for the reply mate. I'm coaching A.C.Milan in my 6st season and my strongest 11 right now is

Scuffet - Darmian, Astori, Balanta, Di Sciglio - Samper, Gil Romero/Locatelli, Lucas Romero - Keita, Willian, Berardi
(I never paid more than 20M for any player and no one earns above 100k/week, and I like to have homegrown players on my squad, so this team might not be as strong as expected, despite having a +200Million£ budget :) )

As for the wingers there is Willian (winger) with 28 shots/0 goals and keita (inside forward) with 39 shots/1 goal. This might be just bad luck because keita scored 18 goals last season with me and the wingers also had a good goals/shots ratio. The problem is always the CMs, a few matches ago I saw Locatelli having 10 shots/6 on target and scoring none, despite having great finishing atributtes for a midfielder, and it's not uncommon having a CM getting close to those numbers and ending the game without scoring.

The morale is great, I win lots of games but I always wonder what kind of results I could have if the CMs' goal/shots ratio wasn't so poor.
 
alex21px said:
As for the wingers there is Willian (winger) with 28 shots/0 goals and keita (inside forward) with 39 shots/1 goal. This might be just bad luck because keita scored 18 goals last season with me and the wingers also had a good goals/shots ratio. The problem is always the CMs, a few matches ago I saw Locatelli having 10 shots/6 on target and scoring none, despite having great finishing atributtes for a midfielder, and it's not uncommon having a CM getting close to those numbers and ending the game without scoring.

The morale is great, I win lots of games but I always wonder what kind of results I could have if the CMs' goal/shots ratio wasn't so poor.
Click to expand...

10 shots and no goals is indeed insane.. Usually my CM's are at 3-4 shots per game and they score quite often.
How about Lucas Romero? How is he performing? He's always performing for me and scoring quite a lot.

In my Midtjylland save, my free roaming playmaker is at 12 goals this season and my CM(Au) has scored 9 goals.

Another question: How are you training your players individually and in general?
 
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VerZa said:
10 shots and no goals is indeed insane.. Usually my CM's are at 3-4 shots per game and they score quite often.
How about Lucas Romero? How is he performing? He's always performing for me and scoring quite a lot.

In my Midtjylland save, my free roaming playmaker is at 12 goals this season and my CM(Au) has scored 9 goals.

Another question: How are you training your players individually and in general?
Click to expand...

I assign individual training focusing on roles that cover the most atributes possible. Per example I give a 'complete full back' training to my full backs or a 'box-to-box' training to the CM(au) so the defense and attack atributes can be raised. Does it have any influence on how they interpret their roles in the tactic?

As for Lucas Romero, I cannot say he is playing badly, but is far away from the performances of your Romero. And I forgot to mention that he has 62 shots/1 goal so far in 19 games. Balde Keita, my inside forward, is now at 54 shots/1 goal in 20 games.
 
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alex21px said:
I assign individual training focusing on roles that cover the most atributes possible. Per example I give a 'complete full back' training to my full backs or a 'box-to-box' training to the CM(au) so the defense and attack atributes can be raised. Does it have any influence on how they interpret their roles in the tactic?

As for Lucas Romero, I cannot say he is playing badly, but is far away from the performances of your Romero. And I forgot to mention that he has 62 shots/1 goal so far in 19 games. Balde Keita, my inside forward, is now at 54 shots/1 goal in 20 games.
Click to expand...

Holy.. I my Fulham save, My Lucas Romero has 94 shots/49 on target (52% sucess-rate) and 11 goals after 24 games. So 0,46 goals per game for a CM.
My other CM is Tielemans. He has 64/29 after 27 games and 6 goals.

It's crazy how your players are performing. I hope you find a way to fix it :)
Your training seems fine. I do believe it has some influence on how they're performing in their individual roles. I usually just train them in the roles, they're in.
 
VerZa said:
Holy.. I my Fulham save, My Lucas Romero has 94 shots/49 on target (52% sucess-rate) and 11 goals after 24 games. So 0,46 goals per game for a CM.
My other CM is Tielemans. He has 64/29 after 27 games and 6 goals.

It's crazy how your players are performing. I hope you find a way to fix it :)
Your training seems fine. I do believe it has some influence on how they're performing in their individual roles. I usually just train them in the roles, they're in.
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I may know where my MCs are wasting most of their shots. After a throw in or a short corner, if the ball gets to them (and it happens quite often) they just shoot from wherever they receive it, without any preparation or espace to do it, and of course the effort gets blocked, goes wide or gets easily saved by the GK. I tried getting the mentality down to 'Control' and add the instruction 'Work ball to the box', but with no improvement. They still shoot as soon as they get the ball despite having team-mates in better position.

I just had Romero shooting 9 times in a match, ALL of then coming from set pieces, and his shoots were just awful, ending up everywere except where it counts. I could try to rearrange the players positions on set pieces, but if it's not the MCs doing all those ridiculous shots, it will be someone else then. Any ideas? Thanks
 
alex21px said:
I may know where my MCs are wasting most of their shots. After a throw in or a short corner, if the ball gets to them (and it happens quite often) they just shoot from wherever they receive it, without any preparation or espace to do it, and of course the effort gets blocked, goes wide or gets easily saved by the GK. I tried getting the mentality down to 'Control' and add the instruction 'Work ball to the box', but with no improvement. They still shoot as soon as they get the ball despite having team-mates in better position.

I just had Romero shooting 9 times in a match, ALL of then coming from set pieces, and his shoots were just awful, ending up everywere except where it counts. I could try to rearrange the players positions on set pieces, but if it's not the MCs doing all those ridiculous shots, it will be someone else then. Any ideas? Thanks
Click to expand...

You could simply remove the short corners and set throw-ins to short. But that will ofc mean you wont score as much. Away-games will probably be tough.
 
verza i ma going to try out this tactic with liverpool on latest patch 15.3.2 there is quite a few versions .which tactic version would you recommend post a download please would really appreciate it
 
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thanks will give it go will provide updates on progress
 
VerZa said:
You could simply remove the short corners and set throw-ins to short. But that will ofc mean you wont score as much. Away-games will probably be tough.
Click to expand...

I've tried that and you were right, it is hard to get chances to score, meaning that the set pieces play a huge role in this tactic. It didn't work so well so I tried to rearrange the positions for the corners and throw ins, with the same results. I think the roaming playmaker role in this tactic is getting cursed, because everyone in my team that plays there becomes a horrible shooter. Locatelli has 37 shots/1 goal in 16 games and Lucas Romero has 144 shots/3 goals in 38 games, meaning a 2% effectiveness in finishing. The right MC, Gil Romero, actually has some acceptable numbers, with 141 shots/ 17 goals (12%), but the main problem is the roaming playmaker and the wasted shoots coming from there.

A few weeks ago I changed the role to advanced playmaker, but the shots kept coming anyway and the overall performance decreased, so I don't know what to do anymore.
 
alex21px said:
I've tried that and you were right, it is hard to get chances to score, meaning that the set pieces play a huge role in this tactic. It didn't work so well so I tried to rearrange the positions for the corners and throw ins, with the same results. I think the roaming playmaker role in this tactic is getting cursed, because everyone in my team that plays there becomes a horrible shooter. Locatelli has 37 shots/1 goal in 16 games and Lucas Romero has 144 shots/3 goals in 38 games, meaning a 2% effectiveness in finishing. The right MC, Gil Romero, actually has some acceptable numbers, with 141 shots/ 17 goals (12%), but the main problem is the roaming playmaker and the wasted shoots coming from there.

A few weeks ago I changed the role to advanced playmaker, but the shots kept coming anyway and the overall performance decreased, so I don't know what to do anymore.
Click to expand...

I see it like this: This tactic is INSANE, when exploting set-pieces. If you remove those, intentionly trying not to score from set-pieces, then the tactic is decent. That's how most tactics are this year, if you want to plug-and-play, which is the idea behind this tactic.
On the other hand, if I find it extremely hard to score from set-pieces, if you're not using the methods used in this tactic. I hope they fix this in FM2016.

But back to the playmaker not scoring goals. I'm actually starting to experience the same problems, so I'm gonna try and tweak the tactic today, to see if I can fix this problem. I'll let you know if there's any progress. You're welcome to try the same :)

Edit: I've tried a few things and things are looking good so far. 4 games played with the new tweaks. 5-1, 5-0, 6-0, 6-0 wins. I'll have to test some more, before I release anything.
 
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VerZa said:
I see it like this: This tactic is INSANE, when exploting set-pieces. If you remove those, intentionly trying not to score from set-pieces, then the tactic is decent. That's how most tactics are this year, if you want to plug-and-play, which is the idea behind this tactic.
On the other hand, if I find it extremely hard to score from set-pieces, if you're not using the methods used in this tactic. I hope they fix this in FM2016.

But back to the playmaker not scoring goals. I'm actually starting to experience the same problems, so I'm gonna try and tweak the tactic today, to see if I can fix this problem. I'll let you know if there's any progress. You're welcome to try the same :)

Edit: I've tried a few things and things are looking good so far. 4 games played with the new tweaks. 5-1, 5-0, 6-0, 6-0 wins. I'll have to test some more, before I release anything.
Click to expand...

I do really love you tactic mate, it changed my A.C.Milan from a dying club into a world class powerhouse, smashing a lot of teams and winning almost everything. It's just that tiny bit of a problem where the playmaker shoots like a brainless Emile Heskey :) . Today I tried Samper (my best passer) in that role and he fulfield his role as a playmaker, but everytime he recieved the ball on the edge of the area he just shoots without thinking, forgetting that sometimes he has loads of oposition players and a few teammates in the box to block the ball. I actually had someone how had a great season playing there, with Andre Ayew scoring 18 goals in the league in my first season, but after that one, not even Ayew came close to those numbers in the following seasons.

I added the instructions 'Work ball into box' and 'Run at defense' to see if something changes, because so far switching the Roaming Playmaker role to something else has been a bad idea. Thanks :)
 
Alright, I'm going to release it now. It is not with my good will, but I don't have much time to test it the next few days, so I need you guys help to do it..
I'd like you to keep an eye on the striker, the cm's and the fullbacks. I'm now seeing assists from fullbacks and a lot of crosses.

Here it is: VerZa's 4-3-3 v3 beta test
 
Have you got a screen shot of the OI please

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk
 
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